jhb171achill

Noel, the various colour albums should show enough of them to get an idea. Basically, for A and C classes: 1. New - to early 1960s at latest: All over silver, bogies & roof included when new. Since this weathered worse than any livery in history, before or since, heavy weathering is obligatory to look realistic! Numbers in light green in ends and on mid sides. Metal Flying Snails light green attached, not just painted on. I have one somewhere. 2. 1960 or so, overlapping (dirty) silver, to 1963 - post-'55 lighter green with or without thin waistline light green band. Steel "snail" painted light green attached to sides, high up middle. Numbers in light green on ends and sides as before. 3. 1962: now we're into the black'n'tan era. Initially, full black'n'tan with waist high tan all round. Numbers on ends as before but in white. Side numbers small at ends. Then, all black. Some had CIE rounded on sides with small numbers at cab ends, others had a single large number in the middle and no roundel. Numbers on all black ends as before. Finally, some (not all) got the yellow panel with black number; other details as before. 4. After re-engining (if that's a real word) in late 60s / early 70s, a few initially with full height tan band, but most (and eventually all) with lower dipped tan band on side. Roundels and smaller numerals. 5. Post 1972, Supertrain livery. 6. For the A class, post-1987 Tippex livery. No Cs ever got this as they were all recently withdrawn. I think a C in tippex would have looked great! Re the grey / green era, there will be a book.................though it's going to be several years!

I must fish mine out and post a few items again. They really open up the day to day minutae of the grey/green and black'n'tan eras.

Is it just my computer or is it flickr - I find that looking up anything on that website is exceptionally slow to the extent that after 2 or 3 images it just slows to an unworkable speed.... any ideas?

Correct! Yellow only appeared in comparatively recent times. Grey was the rule without exception* in the 50s and 60s and early 70s, when (on CIE) brown (but NOT the current reddish-brown) began to appear. Latterly, yellow. (* This applied equally to GNR, NCC, UTA & CIE). Plough vans were the same colour as ballast wagons, goods brake vans and other general four wheeled bits'n'pieces. And not a black bit of metal strapping or black chassis in sight! :-)

Well done, Ernie. Your work is much appreciated by everyone. Those who misuse the copyright of others are a curse to serious researchers (and browsing enthusiasts) as it leads to collections being shut away even from those who have genuine reason for viewing. Hopefully, you will remain able to share as mentioned in your post. Very many thanks.

The railway stopped just short of the river bridge. Had it been extended towards loughrea - which was a one-time initial plan - it would have crossed over. The resultant Ballybrophy - Attymon secondary route would have made a fascinating study for a potential layout, with MGWR and GSWR locos likely to have shared trains post-1925.... Had such a line survived into CIE days, it is likely that it might have outlived Roscrea-Limerick!

C class locos and railcars will fit in well with the sole black Bandon tank; 1958 it is! It's great to see the grey-green era now getting the attention that the black'n'tan and Supertrain eras have in recent years.

Wow! A thing of beauty - but what else would we expect!!

Is it 00 or N gauge?

Had a delve at livery records in view of your enthusiasm about a black 464! Yes, it was 464, but I had also forgotten about 467, which was painted unlined green for DSER services. In traffic in the fifties, there were six of these engines. (465 & 469 had been scrapped in 1945). These were: 463 - grey 464 - black after 1958 466 - grey 467 - painted green, but unlined, and sent to Dublin for suburban work. 468 - grey 470 - grey All others, 90, 100, and ex MGWR and GSWR locos were grey from the late 1920s until withdrawn between 1959 and 1961. The green one did appear from time to time in Cork, and while I have no record of it going onto the CBSCR system in the 50s, it might have done. With 464 in black, you're looking at 1958-61. If early 50s is preferred, then everything is grey, and you'll get away without railcars! Incidentally, in terms of wagons, the West Cork system had many very elderly antiques right to the end. Those brass kits of "soft-tops" would be appropriate, and many a cattle truck would be needed.

Best I did behind steam was a 70 mile stretch on the footplate of a 5ft 6in gauge "WP" class streamlined 4.6.2 west of Lucknow, at a steady 88 miles per hour in India in 1979. The power of those things was supernatural - he had TWENTY ONE heavily loaded bogies behind him, though it was all level...... And the famous 84 mph with No. 4 from Attymon to Ballinasloe some time in the early 1990s. As our youthful colleagues here might say, "hellfire"; but not a wretched diesel in sight!

Leslie - I'll discuss with Norman when I see him!!!!! Maybe you, he and I might meet soon, in a carriage behind her.....

Likewise! And add in the Cork City line. A weekly crossing of the resident AEC set for servicing, transfers of cattle, beet and goods traffic daily or twice daily. Shunting on both Penrose Quay and the West Cork Side too. I forgot to mention earlier that the beet season brought ex-MGWR "E" (J16) class 0.6.0Ts in, and these worked the Courtmacsherry and Clonakilty lines, where the beet was loaded. 560 was a regular and was also to be found doing occasional trips between Tralee and Fenit at the time. I used to have her numberplate, still in grey with raised pale yellow numerals. I sold it many, many years ago during a period of financial impecunity, only to find out afterwards that 560 was originally MGWR No. 115 "Achill"; a loco which was regular on that line at its opening! As the great philisopher Homer might have said, "D'Oh"!!!!

Wooooo!!!!!! Visit to Britain needed!!!

A 1950s feel would involve all steam pre-1954, with GSWR 2.4.2 tank locos, one or two MGWR "E" 9560) class 0.6.0 tanks, and above all the "Bandon Tanks" on the main line. On the main line alone, there would be work for at least six Bandon Tanks. 1954 - 1958 means steam on branches and goods, with AEC railcars on the main line passenger; two return trips a day to Bantry, usually with a three coach set. The centre car was normally a Park Royal, and old Bredin or a laminate, though initially a wooden bogie either as a centre car or being towed. This was most likely to be a former GSWR main line corridor coach if used as a centre car. 1955 brings laminates and Park Royals, the usual centre car material until the end. 1958 brings a big revolution, with steam almost eliminated overnight with the introduction of the "C" class. No other diesel class was ever used in West Cork, except for one or two trial run experiments of light engines. I think an "A" might have got as far as Ballinhassig at least on a trial ruin, possibly Bandon. The "C"s were used on the Baltimore - Drimoleague section, now downgraded from main line to branch, on the Clonakilty / Courtmacsherry section, and on main line goods. If we examine the 1960 Working Timetable, we see that in order to operate the full service, on any one day one railcar set and five "C"'s are needed. When the railcar was away for servicing, steam sometimes deputised, with a Bandon Tank or a GSWR 2.4.2T on the passenger train, though more normally a "C" or a different railcar set. Excursions brought 90 & 100 to Ballinascarthy. A "C" or steam would bring the train to there, but the two smaller locos took over because of the light track. Only non-corridor bogie carriages of short length could be used on this line due to severe curvatures of track here and there. To that end, several elderly ex-GSWR coaches and at least one ex-CBSCR one were retained for this purpose. Former MGWR six-wheelers made appearances on the main line from time to time, as well as on the Drimoleague - Skibbereen - Baltimore line; the sight of one of these behind a brand new "C" with a brand new tin van at the other end was, to say the least, bizarre; even more so when a heavily loaded three-coach AEC railcar set had such an elderly six-wheeler tagged on behind. All in all, an absolutely fascinating period and location for any layout. Such steam as remained was a combination of:

Photos suggest that West Cork - and Glanmire Road - locos were kept fairly well. Maybe the lack of a shed actually helped, as locos could get very dirty with swirling soot and smoke inside a shed. Cleaners usually kept them in reasonable - if not pristine - order.

The beauty about subject matter like Bantry is that from opening day to closure the station barely varied. With station buildings like that, you could well do 1950s; but also any period prior to that. Early CIE, GSR, CBSCR....

That United Airlines thing was an absolute disgrace. I hope Americans boycott them for a long time - hit them very hard indeed in the pocket.

Totally agree. I had a large narrow gauge one in my first house - it got damaged by damp but the trusses were an awful impediment anyway. Second house - gigantic open attic but money tight; in some 18 years I never even started a layout, but it would have been more than ideal. Current house: trusses. Layout in garage or nothing.

I suppose the final arbiter is what's on the RPSIs "Jeep" No. 4, which is correct. Technically, "straw" is a very pale yellow brown; beige even. Cream or whitish cream is way too light.

Looks stunning!

Yes, pity about the lining but looks a superb model otherwise. Glad its injuries are better!

Superb job, absolutely brilliant. Jobs like this show that a modeller on an extremely restricted budget can still follow this type of example and produce something totally convincing. Top class job.

I must check but I think that one Bandon tank may have been painted actual black very late in the day, possibly 464. That would have been about 1958-60. If you prefer 1950s specifically, the grey needed would be a good deal lighter than something "nearly black" if accuracy is required. If you look at 186 at Whitehead today, you've got it. Beware though. Whitehead deliberately allowed the grey smokebox and chimney to get dirtier, as they didn't like grey! - so I was told. Whole loco should be the same grey. A bit darker, but not much, than English LMS wagon grey. Another interesting livery matter is that Albert Quay painted several coaches in the pre-1955 darker green but with no lining at all, and that after 1955. As far as I can gather the AEC railcars were about the only things to run in West Cork in the "modern" (lighter) green, at any rate with any regularity.

It's that "narrow gauge" look which is very much what would have put me off trying to do anything Irish in "N". For American layouts in smallish space it is of course ideal.