jhb171achill

Correct, Patrick. A straw colour plus red, not white and red. The lining on the UG model is British Rail!!!! Which was a white-lined very light grey with red. And yes, red con-rod. As others have commented, a very attractive livery when clean. Of course, many of us will remember it in a very heavily weathered and worn dirty state, but few will remember it clean! Personally, I can only remember two or three occasions when I saw a reasonably clean UTA loco. The current lining on No. 4 is correct.

That's the one! Some years later, I added details to it and repainted in it lined BR black with proper numerals and crests, just to see what it would look like. It turned out surprisingly well. I sold it about 25 years ago.....wish I'd kept it.....

Perfect! Now I'm educated....... though live frog wiring will forever fry my head.

Ah! Makes sense..... at the risk of appearing utterly imbecilic, what's the origin of the two foot rule?

I'm intrigued....what's the "duck test"?

Ah! Yes, that's a great shame. Hopefully he'll bounce back with a new version.

I know! It was hauled by super-high-speed 0.4.0 "Polly". Anyone remember that? Never mind your oul Mallard. The "Polly" could run so fast that it derailed on curves and threw itself off the layout on one occasion!

A superb layout - wonder what he's doing with it!

I ended up gluing the doors shut on mine because they kept opening while the thing was hurtling round my layout at a scale 159 mph!

Blue & cream Cravens for the Emerald Isle Express and persons in yellow jackets.....?

I had one of those!!! And the little green luggage trolley..... Yes, it must have been 47 years ago. This van was in my first ever Triang Hornby train set. An oval of setrack with a red 0.4.0, this van, a green open wagon, and a brake van!

Exactly!!!

Indeed. Many people on here display stunningly excellent work on their hand made models and layouts. At my most dexterous, I would not have been able to achieve a fraction of what is routinely seen on this website. However, I have tried over the years to record and share what I know to be accurate in terms of colour schemes, as I have more by accident than design accumulated a lot of information on this over the years. At the same time I will try to point out inaccuracies in modern reproduction of long-gone liveries especially where there seems to be a wide assumption of something which was not the case. If a model is assembled wrongly, it won't work, and may have cost the maker a lot of now-wasted money and time. If it's painted in a wrong livery, nobody has ever died; so many may consider the concept to be very peripheral. On the other hand, the colour of every object every one of us sees every day is the first thing our brain registers about it. It would be my own aim to contribute what I can in this arena.

Stroke of genius, TTC!

That will look absolutely amazing, Tony. The GNR vans and open wagons would be by far the majority of what would have appeared there.

Exactly. This is where accurate memories, paint samples and the like come in useful. Many of the railway coats of arms in Selwyn Johnston's Headhunters Railway Museum in Enniskillen are mounted on boards painted in actual railway paint. Police forces worldwide will tell us of the numerous times they have stood in court and watched tiresome arguments over what colour the car was which overtook the other one and caused the crash. Some people have extremely accurate memories for colour, down to the most subtle variations in shade, and can be relied on to say whether a modern interpretation is accurate or not. Other people have anything but! I am aware that the current grey on 186 was passed as absolutely right by at least two ex-Inchicore people with exceptional recall. Things like this need to be noted down for future generations. My own actual sample of it on my grandfather's O gauge model agrees. There's a lovely 00 gauge J15 model in a display case in the IRRS, in a very realistically weathered form. But it's black, and thus doesn't look right at all, which is a pity.

I suppose that in terms of looking for suitably accurate stock for a layout, a perusal of suppliers on here would serve well; Leslie's stuff and others represent the 1950-70 period well. Any of the colour album books published in the last 15 years will show prototypes, train make ups and liveries, so a look after that at, say, the Bachmann website, will show models of British stuff which is close enough to look right when repainted in CIE style. When looking at BR items, a repaint can fit in well with Irish stuff even if not 100% accurate. Even the basics of repainting black strapping and ironwork, and chassis in the body colour, will make things look instantly "Irish".

Yes, with oily rags, the right light, and soot, the grey could at times look (especially in black and white photos) as black or blackish. I saw two pics one time of a J15 on a train - possibly an enthusiast's special of some sort if memory serves me right - both taken of the same train in the same station on the same day; and by the same photographer. One, with the light right, is clearly grey, albeit dirty. The other side of the loco with the light a different way looks distinctly black! GNR blue was another colour which could look lighter at times, giving rise to the quite incorrect myth that Dundalk "just went down to the nearest paint shop". I actually knew the former Dundalk Works Manager very well, and he found that enthusiast-fuelled myth quite offensive, pointing out that they had their own paint laboratory in the works..... CIE green - particularly the later, lighter shade is notorious for appearing in numerous apparent varieties in olour photos. I am currently going through a collection of these for a future book, and in one photo I have, three green vehicles look, respectively, accurate green, navy blue and brown! ALL are CIE green!

The line of black chassis look so odd, though.....!

I did, Leslie, only getting round to commenting now! I agree entirely with you - it's tragic that such an utterly elementary error has shown up. Absolutely ridiculous.

No tank engines carried snails, and all cie narrow gauge engines were tank engines. Until about 1949 onwards, locos continued the GSR practice of cast numberplates painted over grey like the rest of the loco. Sometimes the numerals were picked out in cream or pale yellow, sometimes not at all. All narrow gauge locos under the GSR and CIE were all over grey, chimney, smokebox, cab, motion and wheels included. None got the black which a few 5ft 3 locos got very late in the day. So, it's plain grey for everything! After 1949, many locos had their numberplates removed and large painted pale yellow numerals placed on tank sides instead. Buffer beams were technically red, but many were in practice so weathered, faded and dirty that they were indistinguishable from the grey livery!

It's not a million miles away, burnthebox, but maybe a Porsche would require even a bigger budget than a model railway!

Surely to goodness the lining isn't red and WHITE? Are we looking at a Hornby British Railways engine? Ye gads. This is absolutely elementary stuff. Or does my befuddled mind play tricks on me? Has the gargle dimmed me brain?

Well done indeed - a rare relic. Livery wise, it bears no relation to anything that ever ran... In brown, the roof and chassis should also be brown. The CIE thing should be on the upper half, not the bottom corner. No wagon ever had lettering "CIE", let alone that size, and the numeral and mysterious "N" are not of this world either! But an interesting collectors item at a bargain price!

Unlike laminates and Park Royals, Bredins (and their early CIE copies) were old enough to have initially worn the darker green with broader light green stripes. Do, two green livery variations are possible for them, pre- and post-1955. Needless to say, they were never unpainted silver.