jhb171achill

Ghastly end.

With no letter "B" and, I am guessing no other letter at all, this vehicle is very certainly of GSWR origin; the high number would in itself suggest that. For modellers of the 1945-55 period, the light green colour (which is actually the normal "eau-de-nil"), is worth noting. Once the stencilled snail appeared, wagon numerals and logos changed to white. If you have access to a painted light green "snail", Minister, it's worth photographing and measuring for modellers for an accurate record, as I'm unaware of the existence of ANY other painted "wagon snail". Regarding the metal strengtheners on the wagon, the GSWR and possibly DSER used these too - maybe others also.

461's green is copied from a model, not the real thing. This rarely, if ever, gives an accurate result. The 400s were all either grey or green, and none were black.

Interesting, Riversuir, thanks. Could be badly weathered also.

GSR, 400s were all grey until roughly 1948/9. A few received green after that - exactly the same livery carried by 800 in Cultra, though every example I've ever seen in green was absolutely filthy and badly faded and weathered; same with those "Woolwiches" which also wore green. I'm not sure of colour numbers, but if you can match what Cultra have on 800 (which was actually painted by CIE in Inchicore before it went north), then you're there. Don't go by the RPSI's 461; attractive as it looks, the green isn't accurate - though the lining and gold-lined "snail" are.

Saw it, GSR 800. The caption says gold lining too; this is incorrect. If you look at page 12, you'll see "Maedb" herself at Thurles in 1960, already repainted in advance of going to Cultra. If you look at this picture, the lining didn't look white either, but if you view her in Cultra you can see it is; the paint she wears today is what's in that picture. Rusty metalwork on wagon frames and chassis may be one reason for the "urban myth" that ironwork is black, especially in black'n'white photos, while a dirty CIE engine looks black, but is actually grey. Good photos can show a shade of paint definitively - and do most times - but research always must come first. Clearly, in that book there are several instances of white lining looking yellow, and grey engines looking black, for that matter - look at the 400 beside 800 in that top pic on p12!

Nelson, it would probably be North Wall - Belfast - Derry containers, possibly timber from Derry too! But on a layout, the only limit us imagination! Maybe live unicorns from Farranfore to Cullybackey too!

Constructive comment only; and in a spirit of helpfulness: while I can't be certain, I did think the chassis on these were also blue?

I'll have a look when I get home. If it had a "snail", as I suspect it has, it's in CIE livery with black and white lining - perhaps very dirtified!

I am not sure exactly when they were repainted after 1945, gsr800, but probably pretty soon. Certainly by 1949 all three were in CIE livery.

GSR, the lining the GSR used only on the 800 class (with a lighter green than CIE) was yellow and black. CIE used only white and black. I think that one 400 class may have appeared in green with no lining, judging by one photo I saw, though it was in a filthy condition. But CIE only used gold as edging on the "eau-d-nil" (light green) lining, numerals and "snail" logos. As an aside, we often see pale yellow "snails" on steam era model in grey livery. This is incorrect, and had probably come about as a result of the more obvious pale yellow used on large cabside numerals in CIE times. For grey (or rare post-1955 black), while numals are light yellow, tender logos should be "eau-de-nil" lined in gold. And, the light yellow cabside numbers were not lined in gold, or anything else! Obviously, CIE lining was post-1945, which is when CIE was formed. The "snail" was invented for and used by the Dublin United Tramways Company to replace their old garter logo in 1941. When the DUTC was amalgamated with the Grand Canal Company and the the GSR (road and rail sections*) to form CIE, they simply copied the DUTC logo, the "flying snail". Thus, the "snail" was never used by the GSR in any shape or form - at that stage it was a different company's logo. (* The GSR had a "road" section - buses and freight haulage - by 1945, as a result of having taken over the Irish Omnibus Company some years earlier).

Surely a standard "H" van - the vast majority of all goods stock were these throughout the sixties and seventies.

But will the new look function properly under clockwork or steam power?

Excellent! Most interesting! All GNR design, of 1920-40 era; except the very first (GN 1) which is probably GSR 1920s, but at a pinch MIGHT be GNR, and GN5, which is an Inchicore design of early 1930s for the GSR. A design, in fact, of jhb171senior's senior.... A photo of the plank would be interesting...

A number like that is pre-1910 (approx) of GSWR origin. Probably a covered van, convertible van, or possibly a cattle truck.

That's early CIE - with same grey as GSR. Some examples were still pottering about into the late 50s.

My final "off-topic" post; banks have "greeters" here too. Yes, BANKS!!!!

A black'n'tan one for me!

Looks really well (as usual!)

Is there a single solitary thing, in all of the Great Lord's Creation, worse than a "train" in "advertising livery"! We get enough of entire rain forests turned into irrelevant, invasive advertising rubbish stuffed into our letterboxes and computers daily. Actually, yes - people referring to the place where you board a train as a "train station"..... or IE calling passengers "customers". It's all part of the grand plan of inane globalisation. Having successfully killed off goods trains since Todd Andrews' time, now we've given up "passenger trains" too. Instead, have we a new phenomenon, "customer trains"? Don't start me on "happy holidays"..... Rant over. For the moment.

You obviously got there early, Garfield, before it got busy.

GSR800... no, from the outset CIE used black and white lining on all green steam engines and also, for that matter, on the early diesels ("D" class and B113 class). Where gold came in was that the "eau-de-nil" numerals and "flying snails" were edged in gold.

In its last days, the passenger train was an 0.6.0 and just two six wheelers, a composite and a brake third. Had it lasted, a bogie and an ancient 6w brake might have been the thing; much after again a Ballina style combination of a 141, Park Royal* and genny van might have run there.... * .... or a Bredin, laminate or Craven (in chronological order!)

I'm afraid I missed 31st - can anyone enlighten me at the AGM on 32nd Septober?

Seriously top class!