jhb171achill

I have to say i've always had a soft spot for USA diesels too! SD40's especially......

Alan - yes, there would be the odd case of that all right in the past but I never remember it as much as in later days as you say. A 1985-95 based layout could present that as an interesting possibility for realistic detail!!!!!!

And Part 2:[/b] Lets go on to sidings.. all these spare bits of track, long disappeared behind new security fences, untidy piles of spent ballast and other discarded railway rubbish, generously topped with supermarket trollies and old kid's buggies, front wheel missing. Quite a few of our main lines - more than you'd think - were double at one time. Immediately after the GSR took over, many miles of track, especially on the ex-MGWR, but also elsewhere, were singled for economy. But in through stations, a part of the former second track which had been lifted was retained, sometimes on either side of the station, for stabling cattle specials. These usually ended with a large concrete-block-like GSR design buffer stop - I am sure many are familiar with them. Often they had a lop sided aspect, due to having had one too many a rough shunt of 35 cattle trucks walloped against them. They had wooden sleepers on the face of them for the buffers to rub against, and while quite beyond me, I am sure that the reproduction of an old sleeper, half rotten, with what little red paint was left having faded to pink, with worn out rusty / oily looking circular spots where buffers had hit them, would be child's play for the skilled modellers I find myself among here. A realistic addition to a layout could very well have a long siding like this (up to a mile long!) running out parallel to the remaining single running line. the main line has new ballast, may be about 6 inches higher rail level due to more frequent and recent ballasting, with shiny topped rails, while the siding is a bit weedy (brown / dead weeds, following a weedspray visit, anyone?), with brambles springing up here and there, but not enough to make it unusable. At the very end, against the buffer stop, is a home for that wagon kit with an irreparably dodgy coupler or an axle that keeps coming out, but which you can't be bothered to fix properly! It will be badly faded grey, and have a faded flying snail on it, or a "broken wheel", possibly with a faded "G N" showing through it (if it is a van). If we are modelling the post-fitted-goods-introduction era, mid 70s to mid 80s, there could be a dozen recently withdrawn "H" vans and a few old wooden opens; the former mostly brown, the latter generally grey. Some of the brown ones would have paint peeling to show grey here and there. The brown roofs would have mildewy coverings, and generous donations by birds, if under lineside trees. many stations ended up with little used sidings of this nature full of old wagons in these times. More recently, for modelling from 1990s onwards, what few sidings are left are probably used for loading ballast and are therefore buried to rail level in the stuff from diggers loading it into wagons, and may well feature a disused cattle bank or goods platform nearby with a digger parked on it beside a mountain of ballast awaiting loading. Layouts pre 1975, say, will have cattle banks still with fencing often made out of old and rusty rails, either unpainted or painted black (with much rust weathering). Older ones, usually of the deserted variety will be of old sleepers, faded and bleached by weather and the passage of time to a greyish colour, not a "wooden" colour - look at any old farmer's fence and you'll see. Cattle banks when in use were recovered on the occasion of each use by a special type of material dispensed from cow's bottoms, thus when older / disused / derelict had a good crop of healthy looking weeds coming from between the cracks in the serrated concrete used to surface most of them! If we are modelling a city centre location, oily deposits will show between the rails on lines where diesels park, not just on loco shed roads (with very faded CIE green on the doors, and the adjacent ivy-clad bricked-up water tower), but also on terminus platform roads, like at Loughrea in "G" class times. Prior to the diesel era, soot, piles of ashes and firemans shovels lying on the ground for spreading it out, will be essential for any shed. Look at the groun surface at Whitehead, now in use as a steam shed for some forty years - longer than some in railway service. The ground cover is ashes to the top of rail level, with piles appearing beside the track where locos are swept out. And the final random musing for tonight, on wagons... Back in the day, paint was dear. The railways were - well, dirty. Thus, while locos and coaches were generally well looked after, as were stations, good trucks were like they are today - often drab, often so filthy and unkempt you could hardly tell what colour they had been painted in. At least there wasn't the awful graffiti we have now.... liveries are covered elsewhere, but broadly speaking if you have a layout prior to the late 60s, everything is grey, and a shade as good as identical to English LMS grey. The lighter grey used by CIE mostly on "H" vans was a very late 1950s / early 1960s innovation. And the brown came in later - again, for all three, nothing was black. Roofs and chassis were body colour, though brake dust changed the hue of anything below platform level pretty quick. So if we are modelling before the black'n'tan era, dirty wagons are a must - the more heavily weathered (so no two are alike) the better. Corrugated-side open trucks were all over the system from the early '50s, though at that stage were in the minority, most opens being wooden. By the late 60s, wooden opens (and indeed, wooden framed vans) were rare in traffic. A few more observations, as I said; hopefully of use to modellers.

I'll post this in two parts, as the site only sems to accommodate so many words per post! Here's part 1... One detail on many layouts is what is in the background, lurking in weedy sidings and so on. Nowadays, most of this can be classed under the headings of (a) graffiti, (b) litter, and © security fences. It was not always thus! If we bear in mind that the above was all but unknown prior to 1975/80, also that the main difference in peripheral rolling stock was twofold - (a) the railways had much more spare stock than now, of all types, and (b) there were spare sidings all over the place, in practically every station, we can paint a picture useful to modellers of a different landscape. Look at the likes of the Dundalk Works layout that appears at exhibitions. Yes, trains go round and very well they look. The models are accurate and appropriate to the place and period. But look at the background! Wagons, locos and coaches in sidings, men working and so on. If none of that was on the layout it wouldn't be as convincing. Weathering also plays its part - how often have any of us gone to a railway station and seen every vehicle and building newly painted? Answer: never. Looking under several headings.... 1. Weathering. Many of us will like pristine models, and I agree - many posted on these boards recently look STUNNING. But others prefer technical realism. One important thing is that for those who prefer realism, weathering of virtually every single thing on the layout is a must. The work of several "weatherers" on these boards is deservedly well known. Another thing is HOW things got weathered. Any steam era layout had coal smoke hanging in the air as well as a great deal more brake dust due to more shunting. In fact, while we see pictures of both the UTA and CIE railways being comparatively well kept in the 60s, 70s and 80s, a few years earlier the environment was by today's standards, filthy. A realistic approach to modelling will therefore have light weathering on most things in the "black'n'tan" era which are IN traffic, but there will be sidings typically with a few semi- or totally abandoned 4 wheel vans in them, grey paint faded away badly, chassis a nondescript muddy / rusty colour, and roofs just looking - well - weatherbeaten. In this era, we will often have old liveries giving way to new; anything with the old will be much more weathered because it is either to be withdrawn short term, or awaits repainting. An important point here is that while diesel locos and coaches, and even wagons, in traffic were clean, this was more due to be being KEPT clean than repainted often. Per unit, paint was more expensive then than it is now, and the railway had teams of its own painters. Painting a wagon could be done in a shed, without computer-controlled specialist 2 pack machinery (whatever that is!!) and health and safety rigmaroles with ventilation and masks. If we are modelling any time in the steam era, we can generally take it that in these times, wagons were very unkempt when in use, clean grey gradually being patched up (due to economy) rather than completely repainted. Thus, wagons with "D S E R", "G S W R" and "M G W R" could be sen - tattered looking maybe, well into GSR days, almost to 1940. It is quite possible that a handful of wagons might have come into CIE ownership with VERY tattered pre-GSR initials on them. CIE seemed to embrace their new corporate image much quicker - while money was scarce, it had been even more so in GSR days. GSR era maroon coaches, especially older six wheeled ones, had their maroon faded to a (brake dust tinted) rusty red colour, especially visible on the ends. Locos, on the other hand, in GSR days were reasonable well kept, although the "battleship grey" tended to darken after much polishing with oily rags, sometimes making the smokebox front (hotter surface - attendant effect on paint!) look almost black. Soot from the chimney added to this. Red buffer beams faded too, and the transfer numerals lost their shine, especially the gold bits. Fast forward to CIE days, and locos could hardly have looked worse. The cabside numbers were often faded to a nondescript "light" colour best described as a dirty greyish yellow, and if the tender did have a "flying snail" (not all did) it was usually worse. The external condition of many locos was a mixture of dirt, soot, coal dust and brake dust heavily coated over the grey paint. Smokeboxes often had the paint burned off them, and both somkebox doors and chimneys would be bare burned rusty brownish metal. On locos painted green, the dirt would have made most of the boiler look black, especially the dome; in fact, this was worse on ex-GNR locos. I remember some thirty years ago a lively debate among some RPSI members where some advanced the theory that the GNR painted domes black, because that's all they'd ever seen, and a look at Robert Rosbotham's book on the CDRJC shows that one might be forgiven for thinking that the CDR painted domes AND boilers black! The silver "livery" of unpainted aluminium applied to coacjes and new diesels between 1955 and 1958 was interesting and fresh on the first day in use, but VERY rapidly became a filty dull grey - probably the least durable finish for any railway vehicle ever. So a layout based in, say, 1960, could have very dirty wooden wagons, brand new ones in light grey, very filthy steam locos, but lightly weatherd diesel locos and coaches. Older wooden coaches are dark green still - badly faded by this stage, and well weathered, or the new (post '55) lighter green; while anything silver would certainly have the bogies weathered by brown brake dust (how long in use can BOGIES stay SILVER!!!??), and of course new post '62 black and tan would be pristine, and at that stage very much kept that way. Older wagons in fifty shades of grey (see what I did there?), and an older darker shade, faded snails included. Livery detail: it seems that wagons painted in the earlier (probably pre-1950) period had light green snails and numerals instead of cream as later. By 1960, a few of these might rest in out of the way / rarely used places, perhaps against the buffers in a long siding. Wooden carriages faded quicker than steel ones, probably partly due to "steels" / laminates being easier to clean (smooth surface) and the fact that anything wooden will be more susceptible to damp getting into the wood, and paint peeling. Old six wheelers used for years as brakes on branch lines might not see the inside of Inchicore or Limerick's paint shops as often, and would also be kept in the open more. Brake vehicles / mail vans etc were not cleaned as often, and the state of some of the 4 wheeled "tin vans" even in the otherwise very clean black'n'tan era was pretty grubby with brake dust. Another livery detail worth noting: CIE painted the ends of carriages black in most or all cases, though I think some narrow gauge vehicles at least had green ends. Nothing at all in the b'n't era had "b'n't" on the ends - always black, and usually with a good smattering of brake dust. BUT - the GSR painted the ends of six wheel and non-corridor coaches the same as the body colour, with the exception of the brown and cream stock, which had black ends. It is possible that CIE painted plain dark green on the ends of stuff like that right at the start, but I haven't any evidence of it. The GSR painted the "Bredins" black on the ends. Here endeth part 1....

Was in the same boat with a Hornby 00 layout in my teens (1000 years ago) and to make overgrown scrubland (because nothing approaching realism for grass was then to be had) I just pulled lumps of moss out of the lawn and dried them. In time they fade a bit, so replacing the odd bit now and again made a 100% natural variety of shades. Terrible dust collector though.... when you lifted it all to replace or rearrange there was a layer of dust on the baseboard!

Brilliant stuff Dingle.

And there were many ex-GNR wagons - particularly covered vans and grain wagons - which received standard strsight-topped CIE plates with the same number and "N" suffix. I saw a wagon being scrapped about 40 years ago with a plate with "CIE" and "66N" - went back to retrieve one or b oth plates but they had gone... pity. It was one of the standard 1950s covered vans built by the GN - much the same as CIE "H" vans but with corrugated metal ends. There are LMS-type Hornby models of a very similar LMS van which is easy to just repaint as a CIE one (with an "N" suffix, and maybe faded "G N" showing under the CIE emblem!). Incidentally, the wagon was grey, not brown, though I am sure some got the brown treatment. These vans could still be seen kicking about in sidings until about 1980.

Ah it's too cold in Scandanavia.... and if you search for "Virgin" trains, what would you get? !!

I think that rust can look darker in colour where salt air abounds; look at the ruin round loop in Portrush, or bits of rail in fences in the west... That French place looks very much like a Continental Portrush - and maybe inspiration to a modeller of a fictitious modern day Tramore line? Self contained systems are always interesting to model, n'est ce pas?

Many thanks, RedRich. As I say I'm fortunate in having access to a load of stuff which predates my own personal observations (early 1960s in my case). If there is anything historical, and I throw this open to anyone, that you'd like me to look up in what I have, I'd be pleased to post it here, as there's nothing better than looking at a high quality model of something past which just takes you back... a Woolwich with four driving wheels or a train of laminates in pink, hauled by a 1980s French diesel wouldn't do it for me - and yet, in my youth, I got enormous pleasure from my first layout which in accuracy terms was Alice in Wonderland stuff! Not everyone is interested in recreating history, but I suppose my point is that for those who ARE, the more info they can get the better. It seems to me that there has never been a better time for the hobby. The internet enables people who follow what in the past was of necessity often a quite solitary hobby, to exchange ideas and offer moral support to one another. Kits are available for all sorts of Irish stuff - the Worsley works website was the first I ever saw, but look at what Des (SSM), Leslie and many another one offers nowadays - nobody could have dreamed of such modelling riches. Scenic materials have come on - real looking grass and shrubs - and people - mean that some well-photographed scenes on models could easily be passed off as real. Those modelling a fantasy world* (e.g. there were 20 x 800 class!!!) have their imagination as the limit - i.e. no limit. Those modelling accuracy in the present day have the IE tramway and the NIR tramway all round them, and digital cameras can take a million images of one raiilcar. In my day, a roll of film and the processing cost was expensive to a teenager so we had to make do with rationing so many photos a day. Not easy to model something from two photos. Those modelling the past have access to the internet, and for a forum like this if anyone can post up stuff that might assist the historically minded, the better. * Talking of fantasy layouts, my first attempt (long dismantled) was an imaginary MGWR narrow gauge line with West Clare railcars......

Eiretrains, a colleague in the railway writing world had approached me to discuss a book based on what was in the old IRNs. They are indeed fascinating, and they cover a very interesting period. I suppose the thing with any book is how to make it marketable: a re-hash of the IRNs alone might not be saleable in quantities that would interest a publisher. I have a plan B for such things, but it would be a long way down the road. The other issue is that the actual period in history has been well covered by other books. I was brought up on Colin Boocock's book (an the IRNs and the like), as it photographically covered many lines - especially the narrow gauge and West Cork - not previously well covered in that way. But who knows. Next time I am in London (or he is here) we will sup some pints and see what we can come up with. The follow up, in the meantime, to "Rails Through The West" will certainly feature goods trains of various hues a lot, from the same period; in fact the subject matter to be covered has sparse colour passenger photo coverage - which is what might hold it up! In terms of digitising the old IRNs, that's a great idea (and you're the man to do it based on your illustrious track record so far!). I think that for any publication to come from such a project, a comparative selection of unpublished photos, including perhaps those of demolitions, would be needed. There's something to delve into in itself. The results of such a project would make an excellent reference for modellers and histiorians, if properly done. If and when you have time, gimme a shout privately.

I'll dig out a few more tomorrow night when I'm at home; away today! Any particular year interest you?

We could take him to Coppers! Happy Birthday, Wexfordloco!

Absolutely brilliant!

So many issues a few years later had page after page of things like "XX Shed has now closed and both remaining engines have been cut up", "It has been announced that the entire line from X to Y, including the Z branch, is to close to all traffic on 56th Septober", and "Lifting continues on the ZX line with track now removed as far as Ballygobacwards crossing gates. It is expected that lifting will be complete by 24th"........ fascinating stuff, and we are lucky to have such a record in pre-internet days. Must dig out some more!

From the pages of April 1958 / July 1959 issues.. Jan 58 15 locos and many more tenders shipped for scrap to Spain. Most ex-CIE including the boiler of 802 and several "Woolwichs", one (probably the last) 500 class 4.6.0, one West Clare loco, and a few ex-GNR. A correspondent reported a trip from Dublin to Loughrea and back via a roundabout route, which featured a variety of A and C class diesels on various trains, the C's on Dublin suburbans and a Galway-Tuam local. The Sligo-Limerick was a two car AEC railcar, and ex-MGWR 0.6.0s featured on the Ballinrobe mioxed (590) and shunting in Galway (554). The Loughrea train was a "Bredin" composite and an elderly 6-wheeled MGWR brake third, hauled by 2.4.0 No. 654. The train back to Dublin had A42. April 58 UTA reintroduces 60 mph timings on the NCC using railcars. GNR closes Oldcastle branch from April 12, citing the fact that passenger journeys have dropped to a third of what they were in 1938. While the traditional route of the Bundoran Express has been closed now for some months, the comiong season of Lough Derg pilgrimage specials are to go to Omagh; less rail mileage from dublin, but greater road mileage at the far end, making the journey overall 16 miles further. It is expected that the new AEC railcars will be used. Latest deliveries of these mean that they are now in use on the Derry Road (4 sets), the Enterprise (4 sets), two sets sharing Belfast - Portadown locals with steam trains, and two sets spare. Deliveries of A, B, F & G classes reported as complete. C231 becomes the first loco to be outshopped in green, as opposed to the silver used to date on diesels. It entered traffic on the ex-DSER suburbans in January '58, though two other C's have subsequently entered traffic in silver. C's have taken over the passenger trains on the South Wexford line from steam. March 58 Rugby specials to Lansdowne Road - B101 and A class diesels in use, with some railcars. DSER section locals were probably railcar-starved that day as J15 class 0.6.0s were in use. The UTA placed eight new MPD cars in traffic, saying that it is seeking funding for parts to make up ten more complete railcar trains. This, it is said, will eliminate steam on the NCC. On March 1st, new diesels F502 and F503 were noted on the up and down West Clare goods trains, both of which were heavily loaded. On that date too, passenger traffic was heavy with one train noted as one of the standard Walker railcars hauling a trailer and a brake van coach. The C & L section was still all steam, and on the MGWR section the only regular steam was on the branch lines to Ballinrobe, Ballaghaderreen and Loughrea. Further south, the Birr branch still had steam on its mixed train and the solitary return daily mixed to Foynes was also steam. This represented the last regular steam usage in the Limerick area by far. All of the foregoing lines (except the Cavan and Letirim, of course!) were handled by various 0.6.0s, but the Thurles - Clonmel line was also still steam operated by elderly D12 class 4.4.0s. The Farranfore-Valentia line had recently been taken over by C class diesels. Further south again, the Kenmare branch was operated by J15 class 0.6.0s, while passenger trains on the Waterford-Macmine were in the hands of D class 4.4.0's, though a B101 had the goods! Just two return trips on the ex-DSER suburban line, two each in the morning and evening rush hours, were steam operated, along with some Dun Laoghaire Pier to Knigsbridge transfers. All the engines used were stabled in Broadstone and anything could turn up, ex-GNR locos included after 1958. Goods services also saw some steam activity, with all Limerick-Tralee and North Wall-Kingscourt goods trains in the hands of steam engines. On the GNR, all goods trains were steam with the exception of whatever was put in charge of the solitary MAK diesel. Passenger trains were a mixed bag, with diesel railcars predominating on the Derry Road, and the atrim branch. Derry-Strabane and Belfast-Portadown-Dungannon locals were steam. The main line had railcars on the Enterprise with Belfast area locals using railcars and steam, and Dublin area locals still predominately steam, but with some railcars. Warrenpoint was still largely steam operated. The Bangor line was entirely diesel, operated by MED railcars. April 1958 The remains of the SLNCR were auctioned, and the CDRJC applied for permission to close the rest of its railway system. 18 months later, the last trains would operate over its lines. May 1958 The annual "North West 200" motor bike event in Portrush and the fledgling May bank holiday traffic saw a UTA MED set forming a special from (still GNR territory) Lisburn, and steam trains on specials to Bangor operated off the GNR. The UTA announced the scrapping of 18 steam engines, and another (massive!) 35 were to be kept in use until anything went wrong with them, and then set aside. June 1959 The former GNR diesel loco, now renumbered K801, emerged from Inchicore Works in CIE green. It was used subsequently on Dublin suburban trains, and then on the Cobh branch! Sunday 14th June saw the greatest ever movement of people by rail since the 1932 Eucharistic Congress, on "Pioneer Sunday". 25,000 people over and above normal traffic levels came to Dublin by train. (Could this even be achieved nowadays?). This did NOT count provincial special trains to other places, or connecting with trains to Dublin! The specials to Dublin utilised 40 of the total stock of 60 x "A" class locos 5 x "B101s" 1 x "C" class 1 x AEC railcar set (ex-GNR) plus a number of UTA steam engines, with a further 8 (CIE) pilot engines (mostly "A" class, but including a B101). This was a wise precaution, as two ended up being used, one on a special from Fiddown described as "ill fated". (Cancelled?) In use - 315 CIE coaches, 57 CIE (ex GNR) coaches, 40 UTA coaches, 12 dining / buffet cars, 20 heating vans, 30 luggage vans and two 6-wheeled Guard's Vans! The specials, their origins, arrival times and their locos were as follows: 0910 A9 Loughrea 0925 A25 Ballinasloe 0930 197 Dundalk 0940 A5 Dundalk 0945 A2 Sligo 0950 A24 Monaghan 1000 A26 Sligo 1015 A31 Castlerea 1025 87 Antrim 1025 A53 Gorey 1030 A13 Castlebar 1045 A ? Glenmore (Between Waterford and New Ross) 1050 A56 Westport 1055 A11 Oldcastle 1100 A52 Ballindine via Athenry 1105 58 Dungannon 1110 B112 Enniscorthy 1120 A23 Ennis 1125 86 Belfast 1135 A40 Rosslare Harbour 1135 A59 Ballina 1140 59 Derry 1155 A8 Drogheda 1155 C204 Cavan (Interesting!) 1200 A36 Arklow 1205 A49 Galway 1215 A12 Dundalk 1220 A30 Edenderry 1225 ** Belfast (** 8 coach railcar; normal Enterprise strengthened) 1230 A34 Longford 1245 A38 Balbriggan 1255 172 Warrenpoint And in the evening, they all went back the way they had come, the last departure being the 2315 to Ballycumber, with A60 + 7 + 3 vans. Some return trains ended up at different ;points from their origin - no incoming train had come from Ballycumber! 32 specials arrived that morning, but only 24 left that evening - possibly some participants stayed in Dublin that night? It will be noted that some arrivals were at the same time and generally were at 5 minute intervals. Dublin suburban services were curtailed that day, jut this led to overcrowding on what services there were to north Dublin resorts, as it was a hot day! Readers will know what locos were steam, and what was diesel! Eight specials had 10 coaches (exc. vans) and two had 11; most were 6 / 7 plus vans. July 1959 CIE had started repainting stations in a very modernised and bright style; Tara St, Castlerea, Limerick, Galway, and Cork (Glanmire Road) were first. Inchicore continued to turn out "laminate" coaches, now painting them green with "flying snails". In recent times, the "snail" had not been applied to many repainted, but it was being reintroduced. Ex-GSWR coach 1097 (now preserved by the RPSI and in use at Downpatrick) was converted for invalid carriage on pilgrimage trains. CIE reported popular usage of the day return "Mystery trains", one of which ended up in Kilkenny - "A" class locos featured on them all. Track lifting continued on the Tullow branch and the former C & L, which had been closed in March. Meanwhile, excursions on the West Cork system to Courtmacsherry (for Inchydoney Strand) were reported to be busy.The former SLNCR railcar "B" had been repainted green and was due to enter service on Limerick-Nenagh locals. Quite suddenly, the Hill of Howth tramway had shut in May, but elsewhere modernisation continued with "A" class locos making trips to Cavan, Belfast and Omagh. The latter was doubtless in connection with possible use on Lough Derg pilgrimage specials in the future. On May 18, "A" class locos started appearing on the ex-GN main line on Dundalk goods, and at least 1 Belfast "Enterprise" link. For a while, "A"'s were used to displace steam on GN suburbans. Diesels in use on the GN were serviced at Grand Canal Street, with Fairview used for railcar maintenance only. Many ex-GN locos were now moved over to Broadstone, though many of these appeared to only be stored. Among them was "S" class 4.4.0 No. 171 "Slieve Gullion", now of course preserved by the RPSI. I hope this is of interest!

Follow up is currently a work in progress!

Time it right and you can get cold start ups to record at Downpatrick for a G, A or 141...

F##k your 112 Iv a pram outside BRILLIANT!!!

Very true, mayner!

Those guys loo like "customers" in the window of a DART............. Happy New Year to all here!

Good point, Josefstadt! First, you can see the railcar blue here is much darker than on the model, and the lettering on the side is completely different, but following from what you say, not only are goods trains almost extinct, but passenger trains are too. We now have nothing but customer trains! Will someone in the railway's publicity department please wake up and smell the roses (or "customers")! :-) What's next? The gardaí arrest "customers" who have had a complaint made against them by, eh... customers? And the casualty is taken to hospital, where they (as a customer) get treatment???? But in business - it's "partners"........ OK, I've been out tonight. It's new years' day. Happy NY to all! (Customers included!)

Hahaha! If garfield is another oul wan, that makes me a fossil. Remember where ye heard it first. Just in from Imelda May - amazing stuff. Happy New Year to all!

Stunning as always!

Should have added, the RPSI's 186 carries what Senior says is as close to the grey he remembers as anything. Having worn this livery for some years now, it is suitably weathered so I would recommend anyone to copy that. I would see 186s colour as close enough to a weathered version of your loco, which is obviously pristine "ex-works". Again, congrats!