jhb171achill

Tis all a conspiracy theory. Everyone knows that Mission Control is actually in Sligo.

There's a retro precedent. Who'd have ever thought 071s in GSWR / GSR / CIE all-over grey! De Dietrich set in all brown, with the NIR 201s in blue? Oh....wait....

Get onto Vlad and tell him to leave Ukraine alone, and make himself a model of the Ukrainian railways instead. Many here could advise him!

Small voice in corner says : a 201 in 1970s black'n'tan might look good...

That is highly valuable information - the sort of thing we don't all think of. Years ago, I had occasion to take an old disused layout baseboard to the dump, and it occurred to me en route that had it still been operational with track and scenery on it, there's no way under the sun it would have made that particular journey undamaged. Even for those not attending exhibitions, you might have to move house some day (as I am at the moment), so a lot of thought needs to go into layout design for that reason alone...

I saw one a few months back reserved for Barack O'Bama on the 1920 Galway - Heuston....

Absolutely TOP CLASS! In every detail!

Yes, heirflick. The very first one was completely assembled immediately before the MGWR became part of the GSR. It was turned out in fully lined current MGWR livery (lined black 1918-25), but renumbered twice, no less, and painted all over grey before it turned a wheel in traffic. All were grey - like everything else - until about 1950, when they were one of the classes chosen for lined CIE green as on 800 now. The few that got unlined black, and the one unique lined black one came later. I have a note of exact details somewhere but if memory serves correctly this was mid 50s. Not that many CIE locos received black - most remained (filthy) grey until the end.

Up to early 50's, they were grey, so that's four variations!

But I'm too OLD!

Talking of 10L, all four ex-CBPR locos had non standard number plates, way smaller than standard GSR / CIE pattern. These remained on them until the end, painted numbers never being substituted on these locos, unlike most others.

What size is that model? If it's about 3 to 5 inch gauge, I may have details regarding its ancestry. The livery is presumably that of the DWWR (?), as the DSER used lined black.

....and yes, at least one Muskerry loco was indeed never repainted by the GSR. That's another I had forgotten! Old age is a terrible thing....

90 was repainted late in its career - about 1956 or 7. Two good colour shots I have seen show in one case what looks to be black, in another a somewhat darker shade of grey than the standard. It received an approximation of a GSWR livery which predated even this veteran before it went on display, but after leaving traffic. 184 was technically withdrawn but still usable when it was steamed in Inchicore in an even more peculiar (and utterly inaccurate) livery in the early 60s. Mayner's points are interesting - I had forgotten those one, and there could have been other late repaints as I mentioned initially. In trains of later post 1955 CIE repaints with black in a few cases, or darker grey, I was thinking originally more of GSR days rather than CIE. CBPR livery was black, lined red. All four of their locos got all over grey before they went to the C & L. At least one mid-50s repaint certainly looked black, though I would be equally inclined to think it was very dirty grey. On the other hand, 6T did indeed appear to have been repainted black by CIE. The W & T 2.2.2T was indeed an interesting case in many different ways! I always thought a layout based on this line in the 1930s would be as fascinating as any layout can be. Eye witnesses reported it (and its colleagues) as standard GSR grey, but as Mayner says, not the usual "sheep-dipped" treatment, as dome etc. were to remain polished.

True. Some of the models actually running - the modern ones, not Fry's actual models - were extremely poor. Fry himself, an absolute stickler for perfection and accuracy, wouldn't have recognised them.....

Which reminds me...... I was sitting minding my own business in an 80 on my way home from work one time and there had been some sort of "do" somewhere, and the train was full - as were many of the passengers. Sitting opposite me, and across in the adjacent seating bay, were a group of Scottish gentlemen. Well, they were Scottish. They were very drunk, very abusive, shouting sectarian obscenities, and using the foullest of language in front of young mothers and children. The conductor would have been unable to tackle them alone, but before he got the chance, the train stopped routinely at Finaghy. A group of large, well built, local males approached them and left them in no doubt as to how many of their limbs would be broken in many parts, if not severed, if they did not get off the train. Here. Right NOW. Given the nature of what they had been shouting about, Finaghy was probably not the best place for them to go sightseeing. It was still during the "Troubles". They got off the train, and the local youths got a vigorous round of applause.....

As I've often said before, as have others, it's attention to detail like this which makes an already good model absolutely top notch. For some reason, most models I've ever seen of 80s tend not to be the most convincing. But this is (as is the other painted one you showed) and it's especially good to see how it evolved out of ruthless chopping and butchery of old Mk 2's. Now all you need is a crowd of cider-fuelled yahoos sitting inside on their way back from a Saturday festival in Portrush, or a football match in Portadown!

No chance of revitalising the loco shed and filling it with working J15s and W & L 4.4.0s?

That's correct, Minister. With a stock of over 400 locomotives and the lack of money in those days, overnight repainting was never going to happen. What I had in mind the above, though, was locos that remained well into GSR days, or even into CIE, which never were repainted in grey at all. 90 and all its sisters received grey before withdrawal. As one might expect, locos on the narrow gauge lines and the W & T took a while to all be repainted. Former GSWR ones had already been under the grey sheep-dip treatment since about 1918 by the time the GSR was formed. Jhb171-Senior has no recollection of seeing a former DSER or GSWR loco still in pre-grey liveries, despite bring very familiar with both the Harcourt Street line, and the innards of Inchicore Works, from the early 20s. He does, however, vaguely recall GSWR coaches still in their old livery. Apparently there was an old passenger van in tattered GSWR livery still pottering about in or around Kingsbridge well into the 30s. Probably others elsewhere too.

In answering a query about the Cavan & Leitrim recently, something occurred to me in the form of some substance for a quiz question! Question: "How many GSR locomotives were not grey?" First likely answer: "Three. The 800 class". Wrong. Think again. "Oh yes! Four, including the 800s and the little shunter at Albert Quay which the company got from Allman's Distillery in Bandon to use as a Cork docks shunter, put a standard number plate on, but never repainted". Wrong. Think again. "Ah! Now I have it. The C & L's "King Edward", which through hardly ever being used, and scrapped early on, retained C & L lined green to the last" Correct. Douze points. (Or - were there other non-greys in GSR times?)

Having once had a (small) G scale garden railway, I'm still interested in such things. Some of the American ones have to be seen to be believed. There are numerous YouTube clips showing things like a "Big Boy" hauling over 100 freight cars. I don't think that would even fit in my garden, let alone get a run round.

That's the one, Glenderg! In dealing with unrelated matters recently, I discovered that NIR officially called these the "110" class, not the "111" class! On the company's original drawings of them, they are thus described.

Absolutely superb and thoroughly original - very well done. As in the best of the best layouts, the attention to detail is what makes it. Tractor track marks in mud, puddles and rubbish lying about! Perfect!

Thankfully, the spirit of Henry Forbes was more the norm than waste. Most Irish railways over the years have been much more disposed to recycle than waste. With the best will in the world, all the above "turkeys" have been born out of a genuinely perceived need, and I suppose railway management like the rest of us can't get it right all the time. Think of the money spent on the various high speed trains (like, for example, the British "Advanced Passenger Train") which never ran, or the criminal waste of money in BR building so many fine standard steam locos in the 1950s, only to withdraw and scrap them as little as 7 or 8 years later.... Other countries likewise.... USA for example. Meanwhile, in this country we have recycled several Mk 3 genny vans for the Enterprise. It's tempting to think that elsewhere other railway administrations would have scrapped them and ordered new builds. Sometimes a lack of money is a good thing when it comes to waste avoidance! Now, of course, against that to some extent is the scrapping of the Mk 3 fleet. But nobody wanted to buy them!

"...Smells of fudge. Quelle surprise... " Or fish.....