Customs & VAT

[murphaph]

Yeah they will refund your costs quickly too if my experience is anything to go by. I'd love to know what goes wrong to cause random parcels to not be delivered duty paid.

[Arran]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

PM sent

Thats Germany…..

I got a package here, the contents of which had cost me about €500 or €600. I had to pay €130-odd to the post office…..

Why dont you get  a dingy "plenty laid up in Kent"  and do some runs !!!

[Tarabuses]

7 hours ago, irishmail said:

Hi George,  An Post charge €3.50 fee on top of the VAT.  Spoke to An post customer service, waste of time, phoned customs only to get recoded message to email them!  Phone call to Hatton's and hopefully they are going to sort it. I have copied the  breakdown of charges from one of the emails but deleted the customs and tracking No's.

Regards. John

Customs Value: Customs Reference Number: Tracking ID Number: Date: Import Duty: Excise Duty: VAT: An Post Fee: Total to be Paid: Pay by Date:

€ 52.11 xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxx 05/08/2021 € 0.00 € 0.00 € 13.31 € 3.50 € 16.81 29/08/2021

Had reply from  customs,  they say its An post applying the charges!!

"Good morning John

I have forwarded your query to ecommchargequery@anpost.ie as an Post are now putting charges on the packets.

 Regards

M Burke

Customs Officer, Dublin Mail Centre, Oak Road, Knockmitten, Dublin 22"

An Post seem to be using a "belt and braces" policy and charging VAT when they are unsure whether Irish tax is due on a delivery.  Is the customs value of €52.11 the amount you paid for the goods?  VAT of €13.31 doesn't look correct as it is 25.54%.

[Mayner]

 

4 hours ago, irishmail said:

I had a reply from Hatton's earlier, they said that they are having a few problems with shipment caused by Royal mail to the EU, despite Hatton's using all the correct labelling on parcels,  however they said that I should pay the VAT/Customs charge and email the receipts to Hatton's and they will refund me.  

Fair play to Hatton's for sorting it out. 

Unfortunately its not simply a matter of non-EU resident companies like Hattons registering for Irish/EU vat, paying the tax and putting a tax paid label on the box, they are also required to either have a physical presence in the EU or use an EU customs agent or intermediary.

https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/modernising-vat-cross-border-e-commerce_en

JM Design registered for Irish vat & an EORI number in March in order to export tax and duty paid to Ireland and the EU. We currently export to the EU at 0%Vat as we could not guarantee that our customers would not be hit with VAT & admin charges at the point of entry. The Revenue Commissioners were unable to provide guidance on the  declaration and clearance process and our preferred shipper is currently unable to offer a delivery duty and tax paid service to the EU despite announcing the service in January 2021.

In practice it will probably be cheaper select shipment from the UK by a mail service and pay the vat on arrival than a Courier or Delivery Duty and Tax Paid service. 

An Post €3.50 service fee is cheap compared to customs clearance charges for individual DDTP packages.

[Georgeconna]

Thanks for that, placed and order with Cornwall Model Boat a few days ago. They are after sending this now with Fed Ex. God Knows what I will get caught for a handling charge now, It won't be €3.50 that for sure.  Ar$e.

 

[amdaley]

Perhaps a customer who has bought from Hattons without any problems might comment on this.

Has anyone bought from Rails of Sheffield & how did you get on.

It seems like total confusion at the moment.

[murphaph]

To be honest after reading John's post it sounds like Hattons think it's cheaper to take a chance that a parcel will not get through and then basically pay the vat a second time if it gets stopped, rather than employ the services of a customs agent in the EU countries in which they operate and have sales over the vat threshold.

[Georgeconna]

14 hours ago, Tarabuses said:

An Post seem to be using a "belt and braces" policy and charging VAT when they are unsure whether Irish tax is due on a delivery.  Is the customs value of €52.11 the amount you paid for the goods?  VAT of €13.31 doesn't look correct as it is 25.54%.

They might be adding in the Freight cost to the invoice total as Vat would be paid on both these together.

[Mayner]

Vat is liable on the total value of a shipment including freight not just the declared value of the goods, international shipping is zero rated for GST so there is no element of double taxation.

Hatton's probably claim the excess VAT as an expense when they reimburse a EU customer for vat charged by an Post on a tax paid item.

Using a EU Intermediary or customs agent is likely to be prohibitively expensive for low value (<€150) shipments, one of the major international postal/express companies quoted a $40 DDTP processing fee for each package shipped to the EU regardless of value. 

Interestingly individual packages shipped using a DDTP service are delivered by Courier or Express companies rather than the Postal Service and shipped without a customs declaration or label on the box.

We printed labels for test DDTP shipments to customers in the UK using NZ Posts on-line system, interestingly labels were domestic UK using a UK Courier Company rather than an international parcel label with customs declaration.

I guess the main lesson is that modelers importing from outside of the EU can expect to pay higher prices for models including customs processing charges or limit their purchases to what's available in Irish model shops.

[Georgeconna]

"limit their purchases to what's available in Irish model shops"

There in lies the big issue, Popped into the LMS the other day very little paint, Ones I needed not there (Humbrol) Incomplete range of Humbrol Sprays (went to Halfords and dropped 40 notes)  no Balsa wood, super Super glues, none of the KS brass I needed.

Model Railway Shelves were sparse I could say.

I said it here  before there is a good opportunity to capture the Irish based UK buyers here with a properly stocked shop as it will get daft buying in small stuff from the UK.

Edited August 6, 2021 by Georgeconna

[murphaph]

Get out the German dictionary lol. A lot of shops in Germany will ship at competitive rates to Ireland. The biggest problem I find is finding a shop that maintains good stock of everything so you can get everything you want from that shop in a single order. The Berlin Zinnfigur (toy soldier) shop I previously linked to has good stock levels in my experience. 

[irishmail]

58 minutes ago, Georgeconna said:

"limit their purchases to what's available in Irish model shops"

There in lies the big issue, Popped into the LMS the other day very little paint, Ones I needed not there (Humbrol) Incomplete range of Humbrol Sprays (went to Halfords and dropped 40 notes)  no Balsa wood, super Super glues, none of the KS brass I needed.

Model Railway Shelves were sparse I could say.

I said it here  before there is a good opportunity to capture the Irish based UK buyers here with a properly stocked shop as it will get daft buying in small stuff from the UK.

Certainly  a good model shop which stocks a range of additional detailing accessories would be good,  I used to get things like metal buffers ( for my Parkside and Dapol kits) to replace the plastic ones supplied in the kits, along with  coupling hooks.  Most of these used to come from Peters spares, the postage to Ireland used to be around £5.00 but since brexit they want £23.99 !!! which is way over the top for a small packet.

Local model shop, well Marks models is about 3 hours away in Dublin and Modellers corner in Enniskillen 2 hours away. 

[Georgeconna]

Tried learning the ol german for me visits, failed

Good shop in Hamburg We there is couple and I found the lads very helpful and spoke to me in good English.This one just off the S Bahn.

https://www.hesse-hamburg.de/en/

[Georgeconna]

34 minutes ago, irishmail said:

Certainly  a good model shop which stocks a range of additional detailing accessories would be good,  I used to get things like metal buffers ( for my Parkside and Dapol kits) to replace the plastic ones supplied in the kits, along with  coupling hooks.  Most of these used to come from Peters spares, the postage to Ireland used to be around £5.00 but since brexit they want £23.99 !!! which is way over the top for a small packet.

Local model shop, well Marks models is about 3 hours away in Dublin and Modellers corner in Enniskillen 2 hours away. 

TBH I would not expect Irish Shops to Stock Buffers and detail parts but would be cool but I expect Just not the scope or lads out there that need that. Some Parkside stuff would be great and Just basic everyday items would be great. Brexit and the new VAT rules have really made a bollix of the trade now for ordinary folk and has added cost on big time.

[irishmail]

The saga continues!

I paid the Anpost customs charges and Hatton's have refunded me, so far so good.  This was on Thursday and the receipt from Anpost said we will now deliver your items.  It is now Tuesday and still no delivery.   Been in contact with Anpost customer support but total waste of time just keep getting fobbed off with feeble excuses!  Nothing wrong with our local postie or our local post office, but as for their customer care staff!!

[murphaph]

Ah tell me about it. Robert S sent me a small parcel worth a tenner and declared as a gift. Well below the €45 customs threshold for gifts. German customs officer in Frankfurt didn't care about that and incorrectly levied €2.22 VAT on the parcel and then the €6 handling charge for DHL was applied on top. Took bloody ages to make its way here too. The little parcel accumulated more stickers than a Panini album. Brexit is such a complete hassle.

[irishmail]

Just had another email for customs duty on another low value item I ordered from Hatton's.  An Post and Irish customs are a right PITA!!!!  When you try to speak to them they just fob you off with feeble excuses.

Sometimes makes me wonder if its worth bothering with railway modelling anymore.

[amdaley]

15 minutes ago, irishmail said:

Just had another email for customs duty on another low value item I ordered from Hatton's.  An Post and Irish customs are a right PITA!!!!  When you try to speak to them they just fob you off with feeble excuses.

Sometimes makes me wonder if its worth bothering with railway modelling anymore.

Irish Customs are the problem.

Takes me back to the seventies.

Like dealing with a sloth trying to deal with customs & their new found power 

[WRENNEIRE]

 

Found this old label on some track that was posted from the UK back in the day

[murphaph]

31 minutes ago, irishmail said:

Just had another email for customs duty on another low value item I ordered from Hatton's.  An Post and Irish customs are a right PITA!!!!  When you try to speak to them they just fob you off with feeble excuses.

Sometimes makes me wonder if its worth bothering with railway modelling anymore.

What sort of stuff would you be ordering from Hattons? I take it it's RTR stuff and not "bits n pieces". Have you looked at Modellbahnunion as an alternative? https://www.modellbahnunion.com/HO-OO-gauge.htm?shop=dm-toys-en&SessionId=&a=catalog&p=802&filter=k3274g3332p3428

 

 

[irishmail]

1 minute ago, murphaph said:

What sort of stuff would you be ordering from Hattons? I take it it's RTR stuff and not "bits n pieces". Have you looked at Modellbahnunion as an alternative? https://www.modellbahnunion.com/HO-OO-gauge.htm?shop=dm-toys-en&SessionId=&a=catalog&p=802&filter=k3274g3332p3428

 

 

Its some Lima pre-owned locos that I have been buying recently, I am aware of Modellbahnunion thanks, and Modelbahnshop Lippe which I have used a few times in the past.  

[murphaph]

Ah ok pre-owned stuff. Since Brexit unfortunately Hattons is probably the best bet for pre-owned as UK eBay is a complete horror story now. I can only suggest to do what I do: make sure you use the trunk service and fill it up well before you tell them to ship it. At least you'll only have the heartache once rather than multiple times

There's a bit of Lima GB outline stuff on German eBay, for what it's worth. At least some of the sellers accept international orders, for example:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/265253377622?hash=item3dc2555656:g:wTYAAOSw5P9dxwH1

[WRENNEIRE]

Why don't you ask members here if they have anything for sale that you might be interested in?

[amdaley]

Anyone still having problems with Hattons ?

I just bought a RTR item & was charged the UK vat rate on the item.

I've sent them a message about it & await a reply.

[Bob229]

53 minutes ago, amdaley said:

Anyone still having problems with Hattons ?

I just bought a RTR item & was charged the UK vat rate on the item.

I've sent them a message about it & await a reply.

I recently brought a gaugemaster kit from Hattons was charged UK vat and then I got a request from An Post for customs vat and An Post Fee, emailed Hattons and to be fair they refunded the vat and An Post fee

it  took a week for the parcel to be delivered after paying vat etc

[irishmail]

In August I had 7 parcels from Hattons and 3 of them were stopped for customs!  No logic to it seems to be random, as the largest parcel (still well under the €150 limit) came with out any problem but a low value item which was £12.00,  approx. €18.00 with postage got stopped for VAT!  As Bob229 said Hattons were good at refunding the VAT & charges. 

Also took over a week for the 3 items to be delivered once i paid the charges!!. 

Never had a satisfactory response from either customs or An Post about this despite sending several emails.

Last week had a Hattons parcel with no problem at all.

Maybe someone in customs don't understand the parcel labelling properly or do not like Hattons parcels..

 

 

2 hours ago, amdaley said:

Anyone still having problems with Hattons ?

I just bought a RTR item & was charged the UK vat rate on the item.

I've sent them a message about it & await a reply.

I have found them to be very helpful with the 3 parcels that I have had to pay VAT/customs charges on.  

[jhb171achill]

I get everything I order in the Republic of Brexitstan, sent to my daughter in Wales nowadays, and she brings them over in her jeep, along with the dog, whenever she comes to visit.

Tomorrow I set sail on an aeroplane to London Heathwick for a family wedding over the weekend in Deepest England. I will come back with a few odds and ends which have been posted from some supplier IN England, to Wales, then brought by Daughter Dear up to London by circumventing Welsh sheep, choirs and rugby players, and handed over to me. In with the dirty socks they go en route back here.

So, to the Commissioners of Customs, Inland and Revenue, I'm saving you paperwork. No need to thank me.

[jhb171achill]

I should add to that the fact that recently a British supplier of bits and pieces told me that one small item I was thinking of buying, value some £10 stg., would cost £5 or so to post within the UK; and something like £13 to post it to here. Madness.

I don't need it that much. No deal done.

[murphaph]

My latest parcel from Hattons arrived with no customs. I noticed a small IOSS logo on the Royal Mail printed label.

I will be looking out for it in future, especially on parcels that are stopped.

35 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I get everything I order in the Republic of Brexitstan, sent to my daughter in Wales nowadays, and she brings them over in her jeep, along with the dog, whenever she comes to visit.

Tomorrow I set sail on an aeroplane to London Heathwick for a family wedding over the weekend in Deepest England. I will come back with a few odds and ends which have been posted from some supplier IN England, to Wales, then brought by Daughter Dear up to London by circumventing Welsh sheep, choirs and rugby players, and handed over to me. In with the dirty socks they go en route back here.

So, to the Commissioners of Customs, Inland and Revenue, I'm saving you paperwork. No need to thank me.

Remember that the thresholds are much higher for items brought in personally when compared to parcels. I think it's €430 per passenger (on stuff other than tobacco and alcohol) before anything would be due.

[jhb171achill]

10 minutes ago, murphaph said:

My latest parcel from Hattons arrived with no customs. I noticed a small IOSS logo on the Royal Mail printed label.

I will be looking out for it in future, especially on parcels that are stopped.

Remember that the thresholds are much higher for items brought in personally when compared to parcels. I think it's €430 per passenger (on stuff other than tobacco and alcohol) before anything would be due.

The items I have had diverted via Daughter have ranged in value from £3.50 to about £40! The issue with these is postage costs rather than customs or duties.

[Georgeconna]

11 hours ago, irishmail said:

In August I had 7 parcels from Hattons and 3 of them were stopped for customs!  No logic to it seems to be random, as the largest parcel (still well under the €150 limit) came with out any problem but a low value item which was £12.00,  approx. €18.00 with postage got stopped for VAT!  As Bob229 said Hattons were good at refunding the VAT & charges. 

Also took over a week for the 3 items to be delivered once i paid the charges!!. 

Never had a satisfactory response from either customs or An Post about this despite sending several emails.

Last week had a Hattons parcel with no problem at all.

Maybe someone in customs don't understand the parcel labelling properly or do not like Hattons parcels..

 

 

I have found them to be very helpful with the 3 parcels that I have had to pay VAT/customs charges on.  

 

"Maybe someone in customs don't understand the parcel labelling properly or do not like Hattons parcels"

Customs don't to the Customs entry, it would be the guys in An Post to input the details and send it down to Revenue for the Duty and Taxes. What An Post do is put into their data into their entry, Send it to the customs system which then will calculate the costs and return the Vat and Duty costs. Rubbish in Rubbish out.

 

[amdaley]

This is the reply I've just had from Hattons.

I think Hattons are taking the chance that some packages will get stopped & others will get through.

So basically its totally hit & miss 

Thank you for your email.

As we have VAT registration for the republic of Ireland, Vat is paid at the time of purchase with us and after that, no other charges should occur. With the new government guidelines in place Republic of Ireland fall under DDP (delivered duties paid). If any further charges should occur with this order please do get back in touch with us and we will look into this for you.

I hope this helps. If there is anything else that I can help you with please do not hesitate to get back in touch.

[murphaph]

I've thought that for a while but I saw that IOSS logo on the last Hattons parcel which I presume means the VAT has been paid to the EU. The parcel wasn't stopped. I don't order much from them but I will keep an eye on the next one whenever that may be.

[amdaley]

9 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I've thought that for a while but I saw that IOSS logo on the last Hattons parcel which I presume means the VAT has been paid to the EU. The parcel wasn't stopped. I don't order much from them but I will keep an eye on the next one whenever that may be.

According to An Post the parcel should have a TARIC code to enable it to be electronically scanned.

A suitable code for toy trains imports from GB is 9503009990

I'll see what happens my parcel when it arrives.

Edited September 2, 2021 by amdaley

[Mayner]

From 1st July all international parcels are required to have "an electronic customs declaration" which is generated in the Post Office or generated on a postal service on-line platform (retailers, traders and manufacturers. The declaration includes TIAC code value and other information.

When a non-EU business like Hattons, Rails posts an order to Ireland details of the shipment and customs declaration are automatically transmitted by the Royal Mail to An Post before the package even leaves the UK.

IOSS appears to be an intermediary or middle man to allow non-EU businesses pay vat on EU sales without having to register in every state.