BCDR Diesel D1 (No. 2)

[Tullygrainey]

I'm starting this thread with some apprehension because I'm not sure if I'll be able to see it through but anyway, here goes. Built for the BCDR by Harland and Wolff in 1933, this diesel electric loco was a bit of a pioneer. It's an odd looking beast with hints of steam loco in its chimney and apparent side tanks and bunker. It saw service on the Ballynahinch branch and survived into UTA times.

I've wanted to have a go at building this one in 4mm OO for a while now but wasn't sure how to tackle a six wheel chassis with no coupling rods. I reckoned that drive on only one axle probably wouldn't work too well - skins on rice puddings come to mind. (As an aside, a very fine model using an Athearn bogie was described by Denis Bates in New Irish Lines, Vol5, No. 2, Nov 2008). Then I read in Desmond Coakham's BCDR book (Colourpoint, 2010) that the prototype only had traction motors on two axles, causing me to think of High Level's range of 4 wheel drive gearboxes/bogies, some of which I've built before and which work very well. Two axle drive would be better than one (wouldn't it?) And so, the plan began to hatch.

Does anyone know if drawings of this one are to be had anywhere? At the moment I'm working from some basic dimensions in the Coakham book and the few photographs which exist. The wheelbase, at 6ft + 6ft means the nearest match in the High Level range is the one designed originally for the Roxey Planet diesel whitemetal kit which has a wheelbase close to 24mm. So that's where I've started. If I can make a chassis that works, I'll attempt a body from plastic card. If not, end of story

 

Here's the gearbox etch...

... and here it is assembled.

Wish me luck, Alan

[Tullygrainey]

BCDR No 2 has outside frames but because there are no outside cranks or coupling rods, the axles on the model don’t need to pierce these and they don’t need to be structural.  They can be merely cosmetic and the chassis frames of the model will hide behind them.

The intention here is to make a chassis with one powered axle in fixed bearings and the other two axles, one also powered and one just along for the ride, floating on hornblocks, with a compensating beam between them.

Having said the loco has no coupling rods, the first thing I made after the gearbox was two coupling rods..   well, just rough strips of nickel silver really, with pilot holes drilled to match the wheelbase of the High Level gearbox. They allow the frames to be marked up and drilled and they’ll be used later to position the hornblocks and get the whole thing square (he said with confidence).

 

Frames were tack soldered together for drilling and cutting...

 

.. and then separated, ready for frame spacers and bearings. Not the best piercing saw work I've ever seen but it should be all right because the hornblock positions  are adjustable.

Onward and upward, hopefully

Alan

[Hadren Railway]

The 'Remnants of the BCDR' Facebook page has a side profile diagram of No.2 complete with dimensions. Alas, the drawing (along with the others on the page) lacks front and rear dimensions, but I imagine one set of dimensions is better than none at all.

https://www.facebook.com/RemnantsOfTheBCDR/photos/pb.100067097693607.-2207520000../459327004151444/?type=3

[Tullygrainey]

2 hours ago, Hadren Railway said:

The 'Remnants of the BCDR' Facebook page has a side profile diagram of No.2 complete with dimensions. Alas, the drawing (along with the others on the page) lacks front and rear dimensions, but I imagine one set of dimensions is better than none at all.

https://www.facebook.com/RemnantsOfTheBCDR/photos/pb.100067097693607.-2207520000../459327004151444/?type=3

That's really helpful. Many thanks!

Alan

[Mayner]

Its good to see a modeller scratchbuilding  a chassis for al loco like D2 rather than attempting to use a rtr power bogie or chassis.

The High Level motor and Quad-Driver should result in a reliable smooth running chassis.

 

[David Holman]

Great project!

[Patrick Davey]

Very excited for this one, watching with interest!  As well as the one made by Denis Bates, I know of two other models of this loco:

This was seen on the iconic 21mm 'Adavoyle Junction' layout made by the late Tony Miles, am not aware if Mr. Miles himself built it though.

 

This one was built by professional model maker Johnny Prescott (not THAT one) in England, for Len Ball of Bangor, and Len kindly allowed me to run it on my Ballynahinch Junction layout (along with the 4-4-2t loco which Mr. Prescott also built) before it went on permanent display in Downpatrick:

It's fairly accurate although the BCDR lettering is a bit basic.

Edited October 8, 2022 by Patrick Davey

[Patrick Davey]

My good friend the late Bill Gillespie knew the loco well as his father Joseph was one of the Ballynahinch branch drivers before he sadly lost his life in WW2.  Here are Bill's own words from the 'Remnants of the BCDR' page, hopefully John the owner of the page won't mind me copying them here:

"I knew this loco well and was allowed to drive it occasionally on the Branch. About 1965 I saw it at H & W who were using it around the shipyard and I offered to buy it but it was later scrapped without reference to me. Sad - otherwise, it would now be on DCDR!"

[Galteemore]

This lovely photo has been posted several times online including here: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.heritagerailway.co.uk/2079/irish-revivalists-mourn-joint-founder/%3famp=1

shows a young Bill Gillespie sitting beside the loco - presumably just before he jumped into the cab! 

[Killian Keane]

[Tullygrainey]

Thanks to everyone for all the information and encouragement. To reiterate what Patrick said recently, as a support network, this forum works really well.

Thank you for the GA drawing Killian. Lots of information there and a chance to gauge relative proportions, which is very hard to do from photographs.

Those are beautiful models Patrick. The bar just got quite a bit higher. No pressure then 

More soon, Alan

[Tullygrainey]

Fixed bearings in. The High Level gearbox is designed for 2mm axles. OO spacers from Alan Gibson soldered in.

 

Frames assembled. Doing this on a sheet of glass helps keep it straight.

 

Trial fit of the gearbox. Looking promising.

Travelling hopefully , Alan

[Patrick Davey]

Great stuff Alan!

[Tullygrainey]

High Level  Spacesaver hornblocks with 2mm bearings. The etches fold up and a little folding tab locks the whole thing together, no soldering. The tab then locates up against the top of the chassis cutout to automatically get the height right. Clever stuff!

A little polishing of the bearing surfaces helps things along if they seem tight in the hornblock though sometimes the legs of the hornblock can get misaligned in either plane causing the bearing to jam. A little bit of gentle tweaking usually sorts it.

Alan

[Galteemore]

Thanks for this Alan. Great to see this progressing, and looking good. Made one of these blocks up myself for a nascent project. I found a little Emery paper polishing did indeed work wonders. So I’m not dreading making up a few more. 

Edited October 15, 2022 by Galteemore

[WRENNEIRE]

nascent
adjective
(especially of a process or organization) just coming into existence and beginning to display signs of future potential.
"the nascent space industry"
Had to Google this baby
Never came up in Honours English in St Declans CBS 

Edited October 15, 2022 by WRENNEIRE

[Galteemore]

To be fair, @WRENNEIRE, at Belfast Royal Academy we didn’t also have the Irish to learn like you did…..

Edited October 15, 2022 by Galteemore

[WRENNEIRE]

Seo e an Focail as Gaeilge:
nascent

adjective atá ag teacht chun cinn
nuaghinte   adj3 
the nascent protest movement an ghluaiseacht agóide atá ag teacht chun cinn
their democracy is still nascent níl a ndaonlathas ach ina thús fós

Even I am confusd man

[Broithe]

Did you do the apostrophe module in Honours English at St Declan's CBS?

[Galteemore]

23 minutes ago, Broithe said:

Did you do the apostrophe module in Honours English at St Declan's CBS?

He did a PhD in that. To keep subject vaguely on topic, that great Gaeilgeoir Eamon DeV was briefly a Stormont MP for BCDR territory. One of the UUP members for the same constituency was actually a BCDR director. After the closure in 1950, and before the rails were removed in 54-56, he strongly argued that the line should be retained against traffic congestion. Sadly he didn’t prevail …..

[Tullygrainey]

Ha.. it was all going too smoothly wasn’t it. Had to go belly-up at some stage...

Setback the first: There isn’t enough clearance between the chassis frames and the gearbox sides to fit hornblocks on the middle axle.

The designer has been severely reprimanded and told to make more use of his measuring devices in future, instead of winging it like he usually does.

Not wishing to remake the chassis frames, the fitters considered:

a) narrowing the gearbox extension - not really feasible

b) reversing the bearings in the hornblocks - end result too wide for the back-to-back on the wheels, so...

Their solution is to solder fillets of 0.015 brass across the hornblock cutouts with oval holes filed to allow ordinary bearings to move up and down a bit. Not very elegant but hopefully effective. Maybe hornblocks were over-complicating it. However, there’s plenty of room for them on the third (sleeping partner) axle so we’ll fit them there anyway. Tomorrow 

 

Onwards and sideways, Alan

[leslie10646]

Watching youse heroes play with wee thin brass thingies reminds me of a visit to Mr High Level's Stand with my Chief Mechanical Engineer, who also, like Dr Bracken, has a PhD.

Mr HL picked out all manner of tiny bits with tweezers and put them in a wee dish, before decanting the lot into a paper bag and demanding my month's Pension in return.

I suppose it was more than worth it, as my CME turned a recalcitrant 4-4-0 into a noble, strong model of its renowned prototype.

I take my hat off to you for trying at all.

Oh, Dave, they didn't teach Gaelic at the Royal Belfast Academical Institution either (Dr G's comment above refers). I'm embarrassed to say that I don't know how to say thank you in Irish, yet I know it in two versions of Chinese.

Edited October 15, 2022 by leslie10646

[WRENNEIRE]

Leslie
Go raibh maith agat a chara

Edited October 15, 2022 by WRENNEIRE

[leslie10646]

David, is that something rude, or a very long way to say "Thank you"?

[GSR 800]

6 hours ago, Tullygrainey said:

Ha.. it was all going too smoothly wasn’t it. Had to go belly-up at some stage...

Setback the first: There isn’t enough clearance between the chassis frames and the gearbox sides to fit hornblocks on the middle axle.

The designer has been severely reprimanded and told to make more use of his measuring devices in future, instead of winging it like he usually does.

Not wishing to remake the chassis frames, the fitters considered:

a) narrowing the gearbox extension - not really feasible

b) reversing the bearings in the hornblocks - end result too wide for the back-to-back on the wheels, so...

Their solution is to solder fillets of 0.015 brass across the hornblock cutouts with oval holes filed to allow ordinary bearings to move up and down a bit. Not very elegant but hopefully effective. Maybe hornblocks were over-complicating it. However, there’s plenty of room for them on the third (sleeping partner) axle so we’ll fit them there anyway. Tomorrow 

 

Onwards and sideways, Alan

File the bearings on the outside of the gearbox flush? Might give you a bit more room, not sure if it'll cover the distance.

[Mayner]

 

One option may be to support the leading and center axle on a beams using normal top-hat bearings similar to Fig 36 in the Scalefour digest.

I am not convinced that you will need to patch the center axle cutouts & form oval axle holes, the combination of the High Level gear carriage and subframe will maintain the axles in their correct position.

The beams would be supported by a pivot 

 

Another alternative may be to reverse the Hornblocks to face outwards and file/machine the excess metal from the rear of the axlebearing. 

 

 

[Tullygrainey]

Thank you, GSR800 & Mayner for all the suggestions. Much appreciated.

However, the fitters on the early shift signed off on the job before I managed to read this thread. The brass fillets for the centre axle are in!

 

"I am not convinced that you will need to patch the center axle cutouts & form oval axle holes, the combination of the High Level gear carriage and subframe will maintain the axles in their correct position."

Now that I think of it, you're undoubtedly right John. The centre axle surely doesn't need 2 sets of bearings. Belt or braces, not both 

Alan

 

Edited October 16, 2022 by Tullygrainey
typo

[Tullygrainey]

Some photos of the bearings going in. Starting from the fixed bearings already in place, the coupling rods came into play again to keep things parallel. The  rubber band kept the rods located on the ends of some temporary pinpoint axles while the soldering got done. The spring trapping the horn blocks in place came out of a biro pen, if memory serves.

Will it work? We'll soon know 

Alan

[the Bandon tank]

I am loving this.A nice bit of engineering. hope it works for you.

[Tullygrainey]

Pivot for the compensation beam in place across the frames. Brass tube, 1mm ID, rotating on 1mm brass rod soldered at one end.  Managed to avoid soldering the whole thing up solid   The compensation beam will go in once the wheels are on.

 

Wheels are a little larger than the prototype's  3' 7" but were the best match I could find.

 

Rolling soon, I hope 

Alan

 

[Tullygrainey]

A coat of paint on the frames. Axles and final drive gears in, wheels on. The gearbox turns the driving wheels smoothly (Thank you Chris @ High Level). Time to fit some pickups. PCB pads epoxied to the frames ready for these. 

The moment of truth approaches 

Alan

[Patrick Davey]

4 hours ago, Tullygrainey said:

A coat of paint on the frames. Axles and final drive gears in, wheels on. The gearbox turns the driving wheels smoothly (Thank you Chris @ High Level). Time to fit some pickups. PCB pads epoxied to the frames ready for these. 

The moment of truth approaches 

Alan

We're all with you!

[the Bandon tank]

Very neat work.

[Tullygrainey]

It runs!! Forwards AND backwards. (If it hadn't, I'd have just tiptoed quietly away )

The non-driving wheels are skating a bit rather than turning but some weight and maybe a bit of tweaking of the pickups will sort that I hope. Pickups are 31 SWG phosphor bronze wire.

One advantage of this one has been - no faffing around with crankpins and quartering 

So... have to build a body now. What could go wrong!

Alan

 

 

[Tullygrainey]

One problem I foresee in building bodywork is louvres, with which D1 is well endowed. Not sure how to approach this. I've searched on-line for suitable etches but haven't found anything. I've got some Archer 3D resin decals but not enough of the right size to do the job. All suggestions gratefully received.

Alan