Cork Suburban Upgrade

[Branchline121]

Looks like Irish Rail are looking for An Bord Pleanála to give planning permission for another track for the remnants of the Youghal Line, according to this: https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-an-bord-pleanala-application-cork-rail-network-upgrade-5909582-Nov2022/

Also they're hoping to get new signalling, get a new platform at Cork Kent, and eventually order new stock! I recall also reading in another article they want to reopen Buttevant Station. Any thoughts?

[murphaph]

I think it looks fairly positive. Cork's smokey tunnel and through the 5 minute frequency area would be an ideal place to electrify, should these hybrid battery/electric railcars become a thing (and personally I think they will as they make a lot of sense on cost grounds). Let the units charge the batteries under the wires in the middle of the system and operate on battery power out to the termini (where short sections of OHLE would allow trains to recharge a bit while waiting for their next turn of duty. I know that's not part of this plan but long term it's an ideal use case for this tech. The future of the vast majority of passenger rail journeys in Ireland is urban. The regional cities have been largely neglected and yeah, Dublin has a poor rail network for a European capital too. 

[Noel]

8 hours ago, Branchline121 said:

Looks like Irish Rail are looking for An Bord Pleanála to give planning permission for another track for the remnants of the Youghal Line, according to this: https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-rail-an-bord-pleanala-application-cork-rail-network-upgrade-5909582-Nov2022/

Also they're hoping to get new signalling, get a new platform at Cork Kent, and eventually order new stock! I recall also reading in another article they want to reopen Buttevant Station. Any thoughts?

However, sadly no mention of reopening the shortish stretch line from Middleton to Youghal. The track bed is still in tact and still owned by RPA and has not been encroached upon by adjacent land owners. Reopening the short line to Youghal seems a no brainer in terms of commuter numbers to Cork plus seasonal domestic tourism, and economically viable given the limited engineering works required to get the line back up and running. Very short sighted. History will not be kind to those responsible for dropping the ball, boarding on criminal incompetence in this era of transition away from roads to CO2 cleaner transport.

[StevieB]

Re-opening should act as a catalyst for new investment in the Youghal area in terms of housing, employment and, not least, tourism.

Stephen

[Westcorkrailway]

26 minutes ago, Noel said:

However, sadly no mention of reopening the shortish stretch line from Middleton to Youghal. The track bed is still in tact and still owned by RPA and has not been encroached upon by adjacent land owners. Reopening the short line to Youghal seems a no brainer in terms of commuter numbers to Cork plus seasonal domestic tourism, and economically viable given the limited engineering works required to get the line back up and running. Very short sighted. History will not be kind to those responsible for dropping the ball, boarding on criminal incompetence in this era of transition away from roads to CO2 cleaner transport.

Unfortunatly the sentiment is about 5 years to late. The line is now set to be be one of the most boring greenways in Ireland, other then Youghal station itself which will have the neat little turntable 

[murphaph]

I guess the greenway at least protects the alignment from development if nothing else. There is nothing really between Midleton and Youghal and Youghal is a small town (today). I do believe that at present there are better places the money can be invested in the rail network (in Cork). Building the proposed new stations and double tracking to Midleton will bring 10 times more new customers than relaying the 15kms to Youghal would. Some day maybe but personally I think Light rail from Kent into the city and out into the southern and western suburbs should be a much higher priority than Youghal, for now. You can all stone me now 

[minister_for_hardship]

The great and the good in Youghal didn't care much for a railway. Perhaps they're more interested in cycling and walking doggies, who knows? Don't ask, don't get.

[skinner75]

Easy peasy to rip up tarmac in the future if the demand is there for rail, which it appears not to be at present

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

I guess the greenway at least protects the alignment from development if nothing else. There is nothing really between Midleton and Youghal and Youghal is a small town (today). I do believe that at present there are better places the money can be invested in the rail network (in Cork). Building the proposed new stations and double tracking to Midleton will bring 10 times more new customers than relaying the 15kms to Youghal would. Some day maybe but personally I think Light rail from Kent into the city and out into the southern and western suburbs should be a much higher priority than Youghal, for now. You can all stone me now 

I suppose but considering the demand for a bypass in castlemartyr a railway would be definitely feasible . As i often said there is a huge state of the art dairy factory right next to mogeely station…

youghal has some of the cheapest housing outside of Leitrim, a direct rail route would’ve meant many of those working in cork had a decent option for housing with a railway connection … era just a missed opertunity is all…considering it’s going to be part of a proposed “supergreenway” from cork to Waterford, it’s gonna be a while if at all before a serious proposal for re-implemented railway 

41 minutes ago, minister_for_hardship said:

The great and the good in Youghal didn't care much for a railway. Perhaps they're more interested in cycling and walking doggies, who knows? Don't ask, don't get.

Very true. 

[Branchline121]

3 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

one of the most boring greenways 

Wait till' ya hear about Kingscourt! On a more serious note, it is unfortunate that another railway line full of potential is soon to be abandoned for a greenway as I think a railway to Youghal would bring more economy than a greenway ever could.

[Noel]

19 minutes ago, Branchline121 said:

Wait till' ya hear about Kingscourt! On a more serious note, it is unfortunate that another railway line full of potential is soon to be abandoned for a greenway as I think a railway to Youghal would bring more economy than a greenway ever could.

Its hard to know but leaving aside the commuter potential Youghal is a domestic tourist honey trap for 9 months of the year, and bursting at the seams with domestic visitors. Rail link to Dublin via Cork opens up more economic potential for the hospitality and tourism sector. The Cobh line is hopping.  Its amazing Dublin folks with the travel pass can go to Cobh for lunch. Last time we stayed in Cobh about 4 years ago, the place was buzzing, I'd hazzard half the folks were tourists. 

The CBSC west cork railways are lost beyond redemption but can you imagine the success today if rail link out to Kinsale, Baltimore, Courtmacsherry, Clonakilty, and Bantry still existed even with just frequent 2 car DMU sets. 

[Westcorkrailway]

1 hour ago, Noel said:

The CBSC west cork railways are lost beyond redemption but can you imagine the success today if rail link out to Kinsale, Baltimore, Courtmacsherry, Clonakilty, and Bantry still existed even with just frequent 2 car DMU sets. 

I could write a book about this but I’ll refrain 

 

it’s the railways like the CBSC that should be greenways though…yah sure it’s mostly privately owned and an awful lot of embankments have faded into time…

 

for instance the current proposal is a cork to kinsale greenway. This would encompass the viaduct and possible goggins hill tunnel before driverting off. (The reason I only do possibly the goggins hill tunnel is there is a house built on the trackbed just after it) 

 

the dream would be a cork-clonakilty using mostly former rail alignments (some of the Ex railway stuff isint bad in this section) it would require lots of CPO’s and even the building of at least 2 new bridges at innishannon. But it would be a greenway to rival if not beat the Dungarvan greenway. 2 tunnels, 3 major bridges/viaducts and 3 sections of beutiful views.
 

 

[StevieB]

7 hours ago, Noel said:

Its hard to know but leaving aside the commuter potential Youghal is a domestic tourist honey trap for 9 months of the year, and bursting at the seams with domestic visitors. Rail link to Dublin via Cork opens up more economic potential for the hospitality and tourism sector. The Cobh line is hopping.  Its amazing Dublin folks with the travel pass can go to Cobh for lunch. Last time we stayed in Cobh about 4 years ago, the place was buzzing, I'd hazzard half the folks were tourists. 

The CBSC west cork railways are lost beyond redemption but can you imagine the success today if rail link out to Kinsale, Baltimore, Courtmacsherry, Clonakilty, and Bantry still existed even with just frequent 2 car DMU sets. 

Imagine, if you will, how different things might have been if the Cork City Railway had been built along the lines of the link line in Dublin ie a double track elevated railway, allowing a better connection between the railways of west Cork and the rest of the network. A good prototype for a model railway me thinks.

Stephen

[Darrman]

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-41076857.html

The Examiner reports that tenders have been issued. The article says applications for the tender are open until the end of May yet Irish Rail wanted to sign the contract and start construction this April. The estimated completion time of August 2026 and 30 months works out to an April 2024 start instead...

[Westcorkrailway]

9 hours ago, Darrman said:

https://www.irishexaminer.com/property/developmentconstruction/arid-41076857.html

The Examiner reports that tenders have been issued. The article says applications for the tender are open until the end of May yet Irish Rail wanted to sign the contract and start construction this April. The estimated completion time of August 2026 and 30 months works out to an April 2024 start instead...

The theory at the moment is that when the new darts land (2026)…..the 29ks will be sent to cork to work this new service. I don’t think it will mean the end of the road for the 2600 class though 

[DoctorPan]

On 27/2/2023 at 10:22 AM, Westcorkrailway said:

The theory at the moment is that when the new darts land (2026)…..the 29ks will be sent to cork to work this new service. I don’t think it will mean the end of the road for the 2600 class though 

That was the possible old theory. The new one is the additional order of BEMUs is for the CACR packages as work package 6 is Electrification work.

https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/news/140008/irish-rail-alstom-xtrapolis-trains/

 

 

[Westcorkrailway]

12 minutes ago, DoctorPan said:

That was the possible old theory. The new one is the additional order of BEMUs is for the CACR packages as work package 6 is Electrification work.

https://www.globalrailwayreview.com/news/140008/irish-rail-alstom-xtrapolis-trains/

 

 

I suppose that could also become the nee theory. That would mean electrifying the cork area.
 

are we sticking with 1500 DC or switching does anyone know? That could be another reason the additional darts were ordered

[DoctorPan]

21 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I suppose that could also become the nee theory. That would mean electrifying the cork area.
 

are we sticking with 1500 DC or switching does anyone know? That could be another reason the additional darts were ordered

Batteries for the moment for Cork. Expansion of the wires is going to be at 25kV AC as per Peter Smyth's presenations to Engineers Ireland back in 2019.

[murphaph]

Oh is that certain that any expansion of the wires will be 25kV? That's really good news if it is. Does that include the more imminent Dublin area expansion(s), especially DART+ West? I have long believed that we are at a point that still allows us to "escape" from 1500Vdc rather than try to roll it out nationwide. We delayed electrification for so long that it allows us this advantage at least!

[Westcorkrailway]

33 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Oh is that certain that any expansion of the wires will be 25kV? That's really good news if it is. Does that include the more imminent Dublin area expansion(s), especially DART+ West? I have long believed that we are at a point that still allows us to "escape" from 1500Vdc rather than try to roll it out nationwide. We delayed electrification for so long that it allows us this advantage at least!

If we did a nationwide rollout of 1500dc….and waited 20 years time to change it. It would have been almost as hard to change the gauge of track!

[DoctorPan]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Oh is that certain that any expansion of the wires will be 25kV? That's really good news if it is. Does that include the more imminent Dublin area expansion(s), especially DART+ West? I have long believed that we are at a point that still allows us to "escape" from 1500Vdc rather than try to roll it out nationwide. We delayed electrification for so long that it allows us this advantage at least!

DART + will be the last new 1500 DC voltage, with the plan to be any further expansion be 25kV AC and new rolling stock to be dual voltage with a transistion fleet of new DARTs to allow back conversion of the existing network to 25kV. Now we're talking decades of a timeline but as stock is replaced, the conversion will occur. 1500 DC has been ruled out as not suitable for mainline electrifiction as per Jacobs report in 2019 IIRC, DART + South West isn't touching the fast lines, meaning that in theory Cork mainline electrifiction could be authorised tomorrow and wouldn't impact the DART rollout.

Edited March 2, 2023 by DoctorPan

[Broithe]

39 minutes ago, DoctorPan said:

Cork mainline electrifiction could be authorised tomorrow

I remember the excitement when I saw the "overhead live wires" warning sign, between Ballybrophy and Lisduff - then realised that it was just a trespassing rural electrification cable taking a short cut.

[Broithe]

An article about hybrid trains.

https://dublininquirer.com/2023/03/01/to-cut-fuel-use-and-pollution-irish-rail-adds-new-transmissions-and-batteries-to-its-trains

[Darrman]

The (no longer Evening) Echo reports the contract for Cork Platform 6 has been signed, with construction to begin this summer.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41110375.html

[Noel]

1 hour ago, Darrman said:

The (no longer Evening) Echo reports the contract for Cork Platform 6 has been signed, with construction to begin this summer.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41110375.html

Is it on the passing loop around the outside of the station building (ie the old access road to the former goods yard)?

[Darrman]

1 minute ago, Noel said:

Is it on the passing loop around the outside of the station building (ie the old access road to the former goods yard)?

I believe that's the case, yeah. "Works will include a 220m long, 6m-wide, double sided extension to Platform 5." The NTA mockup also shows the platform using that track.

[jhb171achill]

Looks a bit haphazard. I thought the new passenger emntrance on that side included complerte road access.... if so, that suggests the above is a bay platform facing Mallow? If it goes the whole way round, then the tracks will cut across the current new entrance, will they not?

 

[StevieB]

The existing loop outside of the train shed is being utilised for platform 6, so, surely, the new entrance to the station took account of this. Well, that’s what sane people would assume. It is such a shame that the lines to the south and west of the city were lost, otherwise Cork could have a heavy rail suburban network second to none.

Stephen

[Darrman]

Today's Echo reports plans to apply for Blackpool and Blarney planning permission within 12 months and for construction to begin in 2026. However, as far as I can tell all quotes are from politicians, so take things with a pinch of salt.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41169556.html

[Darrman]

The Examiner reports Alstom has been awarded the signal upgrade contract for Cork. Value given as €78.5 million. Works to start this year, finish mid-2026.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-41207674.html

[Darrman]

The Echo reports construction on Platform 6 at Kent has begun. The article includes a map illustrating where the platform will be: next to Platform 5, east of the train shed.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41254498.html

The printed article and online article are a bit different: the print version has politicians suggest Cork might get "all-electric trains, which are currently in storage in Dublin" - wires? 8200s? Wikipedia says there's five 8200s: with eight 2600s that doesn't add up, let alone once you add Mallow into the mix.

[Westcorkrailway]

35 minutes ago, Darrman said:

The Echo reports construction on Platform 6 at Kent has begun. The article includes a map illustrating where the platform will be: next to Platform 5, east of the train shed.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/arid-41254498.html

The printed article and online article are a bit different: the print version has politicians suggest Cork might get "all-electric trains, which are currently in storage in Dublin" - wires? 8200s? Wikipedia says there's five 8200s: with eight 2600s that doesn't add up, let alone once you add Mallow into the mix.

The signal box was supposed to be demolished Saturday night. RPSI followers would have arived in cork Saturday evening to see the signal box only to come in Sunday and find it gone!!! However that didn’t happen so who knows when it’ll come down now…..

 

 

 

anyways you can see here the preparation for the new platform that was in place Saturday night 

[Bob229]

The signal box was still in place today but work has started to take it down

[Bob229]

Signal box still there but windows and stairs removed,  Loco 217 operating the 10.25 Cork - Dublin service

[Westcorkrailway]

The metal gantry around the signal box should be gone too