IRM Crossley Sound Chips Are Here!!!

[Jonathan_RK]

Hello Fowler4F

I was just wondering about which DCC system you are using to control your A Class loco with Crossley sound decoder.

I have installed an ESU LOKSOUND decoder supplied by IRM in an IRM A12, and I'm using a Digitrax DCS52 DCC unit.

The decoder is generating sound but the loco is refusing to move !

[Jonathan_RK]

Thanks. You're using an ESU system so there should be no surprises.

Have you tested your A46 with the IRM1123 Crossley sound card installed ?

Does the loco move in both directions with sound ?

[Jonathan_RK]

Hi F4f

I should just add that I've successfully run my A12 with a LOKPILOT decoder (IRM1122DCC), using the Digitrax DCS52.

The same A12 with LOKSOUND decoder (IRM1123) will produce Crossley engine sound with persistent horn, will notch up and

down on throttle, but will not move.

I also have an A55 and an A30. I'll try the LOKSOUND decoder in these as well.

[Jonathan_RK]

Sounds like (no pun intended) that ESU is the way to go for convenience.

I'll persevere with the Digitrax system and see how far I get. Perhaps there are incompatibility issues to be uncovered.

[Signal Post]

Hi Jonathan,

Given that A12 works ok with the Lokpilot decoder that would indicate that the loco itself including wiring, motor etc is good.

Since the sound functions (of the Lokpilot) are working that means that your decoder is in contact with your controller and would point to a problem with the decoder itself.

There shouldn't be a compatibility issue between the Digitrax controller and the ESU decoders since they all work to a common protocol.

The likely problems with the decoder are either a fault in the decoder itself (hopefully quite unlikely given the symptoms) or a problem with one or more of the CV settings.

I would suggest that you put your loco on a programming track, put the controller into programming mode and read the value of CV2, the value should be something fairly low (I normally use a value of 2 for the A class and I think the default value is 1). I have seen this CV take on a value of about 153 (I can't honestly say that I didn"t inadvertently programme that in, but I don't think I did!). If CV2 has taken on a value way above normal the effect would be that the loco won't move until the speed step is brought up to over half way (ie if you're using 28 speed steps a value above 14) at which point the loco will take off at breakneck speed! Changing CV2 back to 2 would cure the problem if that is the situation.

If you don't have a programming track etc handy, you could try putting the loco on a rolling road or a continuous loop (oval etc) and winding the speed up in order to see if this is the problem, however BE CAREFUL if doing this on a shunting layout etc as the loco may start off at high speed....

 

[Noel]

2 hours ago, Jonathan_RK said:

Sounds like (no pun intended) that ESU is the way to go for convenience.

I'll persevere with the Digitrax system and see how far I get. Perhaps there are incompatibility issues to be uncovered.

I doubt it’s a compatibility issue. Digitrax is one of the best US DCC controller eco-system. These may be ESU decoders but should work perfectly with any DCC system. Perhaps try a decider reset CV8=8 and reprogram the locos address, just in case any of the motor/drive CVS were askew. 

[Jonathan_RK]

Thanks Noel and SignalPost for your suggestions.

I've tested an A12, A30, and A55 with the LOKPILOT IRM1122 decoder and the Digitrax DCS52 system. All working well, as expected.

The DCS52 can deliver up to 3A to the locomotive. I'm quite happy with the DCS52 so far, which is a starter system but seems to be good value for money.

My comment about incompatibility refers to a possible issue with one or more settings on the LOKSOUND IRM1123 decoder configuration, which I will check per your helpful suggestions. With so many CVs, and noting the ESU LOKSOUND instruction manual containing 116 pages, the firmware that runs on the decoder microcontroller chip is quite impressive.

I think it would be reasonable to expect the motor control functions on the LOKSOUND decoder to be identical to those on the LOKPILOT decoder. At least I have a working LOKPILOT decoder as a reference.

 

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Is that how many locos you have?

[Jonathan_RK]

In response to SP:

I've read the value of CV2 from the LOKSOUND decoder, which was 0003, so I set it to 0001. Alas, this didn't solve the problem. I'll check the value of CV2 on the LOKPILOT decoder, just for comparison.

In response to Noel: If I do a decoder reset on the LOKSOUND, will the reset have any effect on the Crossley sound file ?

In response to F4F: Thanks for your advice. I'll check CV29 and set it to 34 and see what happens.

I have three A Class, one MM B181, and one MM B121, so my address list will be a bit shorter. 

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

2 hours ago, Fowler4f said:

Yes, 52 locos & four 22000 sets on order, and no I’m not a millionaire, just a retired UK based train driver with a pension and no mortgage.

You couldn't be a millionaire after buying that lot!

Fair dues 

[Jonathan_RK]

Thanks F4f. I will assign unique 4 digit addresses to all my locos. This makes a lot of sense. I will have 1012, 1030, and 1055 for my three A Class locos.

I've read all of CV data from the LokPilot decoder, so I have all that as a reference. I also have the LokPilot 5 Instruction manual and the LokSound 5 Instruction manual as references for CV information, chapter 20 in each gives a CV table for each decoder. Next I will read all of CV data from the LokSound decoder. The

[Jonathan_RK]

Quick update - have succeeded in getting A55 to move in each direction, with LokSound decoder, CV29 set to 34, and long address set to 1055. Also works with CV29 set to 32. However, no lights or sound. Haven't changed anything else to impact sound or lights. So at least the LokSound decoder is viable for traction purposes !

I have Larry Pucketts book DCC Projects and Applications Vol 4. 

[Jonathan_RK]

Hi F4f, before I do a reset of the LokSound decoder, I just need some assurance that the reset will not affect the sound file.

The Crossley sound decoders are still new to the market so I presume only a very few people will have done such a reset, if at all.

Perhaps you've done resets on EMD sound decoders with no issues ?

[DJ Dangerous]

Some great info from @Signal Post / @Noel and from @Fowler4f.

Can the functions on the IRM Crossley sound decoder be re-mapped, or is each function locked to a specific address? Sorry if this has already been answered and I've missed it.

As with @Jonathan_RK, I'd love to know if a decoder can be reset to default without losing the sound file?

[BosKonay]

32 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Some great info from @Signal Post / @Noel and from @Fowler4f.

Can the functions on the IRM Crossley sound decoder be re-mapped, or is each function locked to a specific address? Sorry if this has already been answered and I've missed it.

As with @Jonathan_RK, I'd love to know if a decoder can be reset to default without losing the sound file?

You can reset as often as you like. it will reset the chip to as you got it. 

[Jonathan_RK]

I have just noted a Digitrains video on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJHAZB-pft0

This looks like a demo of an IRM A Class loco with Crossley sound, sound decoder produced by Digitrains.

Presume this is a Digitrains project using their decoder complete with Crossley sound.

Has anyone posted a video of an IRM A Class loco running with Crossley sound, using the IRM ESU sound decoder ?

[irishthump]

30 minutes ago, Jonathan_RK said:

I have just noted a Digitrains video on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJHAZB-pft0

This looks like a demo of an IRM A Class loco with Crossley sound, sound decoder produced by Digitrains.

Presume this is a Digitrains project using their decoder complete with Crossley sound.

Has anyone posted a video of an IRM A Class loco running with Crossley sound, using the IRM ESU sound decoder ?

I actually commented on this video at the time and asked where they got the engine sound from. Apparently they used a generic file that was closest the could get to the Crossley sound.

[DJ Dangerous]

36 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

You can reset as often as you like. it will reset the chip to as you got it. 

Awesome!

35 minutes ago, Jonathan_RK said:

Has anyone posted a video of an IRM A Class loco running with Crossley sound, using the IRM ESU sound decoder ?

Both @ttc0169 and @Patrick Davey have posted Crossley sound decoder videos in their own threads.

[Noel]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Some great info from @Signal Post / @Noel and from @Fowler4f.

Can the functions on the IRM Crossley sound decoder be re-mapped, or is each function locked to a specific address? Sorry if this has already been answered and I've missed it.

As with @Jonathan_RK, I'd love to know if a decoder can be reset to default without losing the sound file?

Yes

[DJ Dangerous]

8 minutes ago, Noel said:

Yes

To the re-mapping functions?

[irishthump]

19 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

To the re-mapping functions?

Yes you can remap the functions on any ESU Loksound decoder. However, it's best done with the Lokprogrammer. It can be done by reprogramming individual CV's but this is complex and risky. The Loksound V5 has over 2000 CVs many of which have to be accessed with indices.

[Jonathan_RK]

I don't have a Lokprogrammer. I do appreciate the complexities involved having studied the LokPilot and LokSound instruction manuals.

If I do a reset on the LokSound decoder, then I take a risk and hope the sound file will not be corrupted or erased. In this instance, I'd prefer

if IRM could do the reset for me. If there are any issues then they can address them directly, and they will be in control of the process.

[irishrailways52]

On 29/7/2023 at 5:18 PM, Fowler4f said:

Yes, 52 locos & four 22000 sets on order, and no I’m not a millionaire, just a retired UK based train driver with a pension and no mortgage.

Mamma Mia. you must have some layout

 

[Jonathan_RK]

Referring to the ESU LokSound Instruction manual, 15. Edition, November 2022, page 101

CV    | Name                    | Description

CV8 | Manufacturer‘s ID | Manufacturers‘s ID ESU - Writing value 8 in this CV triggers a reset to factory default values.

I take this to mean that the decoder will be reset to ESU factory default values. If any sound file was written to the decoder in the factory, then the sound file should be part of the factory default data and not be changed in any way due to a reset action. I hope this is the case.

 

[DJ Dangerous]

2 hours ago, irishthump said:

Yes you can remap the functions on any ESU Loksound decoder. However, it's best done with the Lokprogrammer. It can be done by reprogramming individual CV's but this is complex and risky. The Loksound V5 has over 2000 CVs many of which have to be accessed with indices.

 

Legend!

[BosKonay]

10 hours ago, Jonathan_RK said:

Referring to the ESU LokSound Instruction manual, 15. Edition, November 2022, page 101

CV    | Name                    | Description

CV8 | Manufacturer‘s ID | Manufacturers‘s ID ESU - Writing value 8 in this CV triggers a reset to factory default values.

I take this to mean that the decoder will be reset to ESU factory default values. If any sound file was written to the decoder in the factory, then the sound file should be part of the factory default data and not be changed in any way due to a reset action. I hope this is the case.

 

Exactly that. Resetting any of our chips for example just resets them to how you got them. 

[Jonathan_RK]

Thanks to everyone who has followed my initial conversation with F4f and offered helpful advice and suggestions, and encouragement. It is much appreciated.

I think IRM have done a great job supplying us with the A Class loco and the decoders. I'm relatively new to DCC but not to the hobby as a whole. I expect some of you are experienced DCC operators. As a new DCC operator, my requirements are for an A Class loco with configurable motor performance, sound palette, and lighting. A few pennies have dropped overnight and I now realise that I don't want to hear the engine sound immediately after track power up, or see lights coming on. That is not realistic. I want to have a start up sequence, initiated using a function key. I want to have control of brake sound, horn, lights etc. I expect some of you have already done this and are wondering why I'm stuck "at the beginning". We'll it's usually a very good place to start. I'm learning as I go.

I will continue to experiment with my Digitrax DCS52. I will purchase a Lokprogrammer in the near future, and install DecoderPro software.

Regarding the A Class sound decoder, from a technical perspective - my understanding is that the IRM 1123 sound decoder uses the ESU LokSound 5 platform, which is a "Leerdecoder ohne Sound", meaning an empty decoder without sound. The 1123 package includes a "sound project" for a Crossley engine. As far as I know, the 1123 is not supplied with any user instructions regarding how to use the sound project audio in a user application. So perhaps this is where the experienced DCC operator comes in, or an experienced DCC programmer. Perhaps there are some Youtube videos on this subject. For me this is an interesting area to get into.  As I've already said, I want to have a start up sequence, a shut down sequence, initiated using function keys. I want to have control of brake sound, horn, lights etc.

From a technical perspective - if I was to attempt a reset of a 1123 decoder, I think I would need to make a back up copy of the sound project, which I could probably do if I had produced it myself. Doing a reset will return the decoder back to ESU factory default values, and.....unless the sound project is protected, the reset could result in the decoder defaulting to a generic sound project. Perhaps the Lokprogrammer can safeguard against this happening. If anyone can confirm this, I would appreciate their input. I think this is an important point.

[BosKonay]

Any decoder from us can be safely reset to factory settings since the entire project and sounds are factory installed. 

The users manuals and function guides for the chips are on the irm website in the product pages and support pages. 

Any other questions, the community and our support team are always on hand to help with - you can click live chat on the website during working hours. 

[Jonathan_RK]

Thanks BosKonay. At least one other member on this thread is recommending to use the ESU Lokprogrammer. Might as well ask - have IRM tested this reset process using any non-ESU programmers ? Perhaps that's not a matter for IRM, but it is of interest to the audience. Those who use the Lokprogrammer will know the answer. I could try doing a reset using the Digitrax DCS52, but I will decide on that myself. If you are interested investigating this, I'm happy to collaborate.

[BosKonay]

4 minutes ago, Jonathan_RK said:

Thanks BosKonay. At least one other member on this thread is recommending to use the ESU Lokprogrammer. Might as well ask - have IRM tested this reset process using any non-ESU programmers ? Perhaps that's not a matter for IRM, but it is of interest to the audience. Those who use the Lokprogrammer will know the answer. I could try doing a reset using the Digitrax DCS52, but I will decide on that myself. If you are interested investigating this, I'm happy to collaborate.

You can reset just by writing the CV using any controller. As all our chips are factory programmed by ESU there is zero risk of losing anything. 

[Jonathan_RK]

Thanks Boskonay.. good to know...hopefully there will be no immediate need to do a reset.

I'll start to explore the digital function list with the 1123 decoder and DCS52 later.

[Jonathan_RK]

Update - as I write this I have A55 idling beside me, ready for action. The 1123 decoder is working with the Digitrax DCS52, function keys working as per IRM list. Seems like a took the scenic route to get here, but I made it finally. Thanks again to all for your help and suggestions. And to IRM - well done.

[Broithe]

20 minutes ago, Jonathan_RK said:

Update - as I write this I have A55 idling beside me, ready for action. The 1123 decoder is working with the Digitrax DCS52, function keys working as per IRM list. Seems like a took the scenic route to get here, but I made it finally. Thanks again to all for your help and suggestions. And to IRM - well done.

Excellent!

Do make sure the window is open, we don't want any monoxide issues after all this.

[Jonathan_RK]

I was surprised at how little smoke or fumes was emitted, and not a trace of an oil leak. But am keeping the room well ventilated. Might be tempted to get another Crossley decoder to equip my A30. A12 will run silently for the time being.

[irishthump]

6 hours ago, Jonathan_RK said:

Thanks BosKonay. At least one other member on this thread is recommending to use the ESU Lokprogrammer. Might as well ask - have IRM tested this reset process using any non-ESU programmers ? Perhaps that's not a matter for IRM, but it is of interest to the audience. Those who use the Lokprogrammer will know the answer. I could try doing a reset using the Digitrax DCS52, but I will decide on that myself. If you are interested investigating this, I'm happy to collaborate.

I believe I recommended the Lokprogrammer, but just to be clear, that is for detailed CV reprogramming work such as remapping functions or loading sound files. Any good DCC system will allow you to reset a decoder without risk of  mucking anything else up.

Edited July 31, 2023 by irishthump