Mark IV Interior Upgrade- First Class

[Rob]

Images of the interior upgrade to the Mark IV First Class coaches.

First one in service on the 16:00 Heuston - Cork Thursday 29th Feb 2024.

Death to the Citygold name and 'back' to good old fashioned First Class!

[Noel]

Thanks for posting Rob. Looks nice on the surface and welcome. However ‘So they put seat covers on’. No curtains, no table service of hot cooked meals like 40 years ago in the 1980s when the quality of service suited business & working  travellers. Sadly the M8 seems to remain a more attractive option than battling rush hour to get to Heuston of a morning to catch an 8am train to Cork for a days work. The big picture good news about this is they appear to be investing to keep the comfy CAF mk4 sets running rather than replace them with noisy ICR trams on the Cork route. It’s good to see an organisation sweat their assets. But please hot meals essential for people traveling for work. Catering upgrade needed on all the main routes 

A step in the right direction

[DJ Dangerous]

Thanks for sharing, @Rob!

Your poor performance at East Wall is partially forgiven.

Holy crap, they look gorgeous!

It's great to read positive things like this, instead of the usual IE-bashing.

Keep it up, IE, you're all we have.

EDIT:

Hmmmmmm, now that I scrutinise the seat-cover design more intensely, is it just me, or does it look like every single seat is occupied by a girl in a dark swimsuit and swimming cap?

Edited March 1 by DJ Dangerous

[Bob229]

Thanks for the update Rob

1st class like the leather seats,  the Mk4 sets will be service for many more years a good investment and all 8 carriages too along with ICRs providing an hourly service on the Cork - Dublin services

 

[DJ Dangerous]

Thread-merge alert!

[JasonB]

On 1/3/2024 at 8:01 AM, DJ Dangerous said:

Hmmmmmm, now that I scrutinise the seat-cover design more intensely, is it just me, or does it look like every single seat is occupied by a girl in a dark swimsuit and swimming cap?

Pervert 

[JasonB]

On 1/3/2024 at 4:53 AM, Noel said:

Looks nice on the surface and welcome. However ‘So they put seat covers on’. No curtains, no table service of hot cooked meals like 40 years ago in the 1980s when the quality of service suited business & working  travellers.

Yeah, I think it goes a little further than just seat covers. And by the way, it's not 1984 anymore. 

[DERAILED]

47 minutes ago, JasonB said:

Yeah, I think it goes a little further than just seat covers. And by the way, it's not 1984 anymore. 

It's not 1984 anymore - what does this even mean? In a great many ways the railway has gone backwards since 1984 something as basic as catering cannot even be provided anymore, neither can parcels be carried, stations be manned or passengers be protected from assorted types of pond-life...Yes, it's not 1984 anymore.

[DJ Dangerous]

26 minutes ago, DERAILED said:

It's not 1984 anymore - what does this even mean? In a great many ways the railway has gone backwards since 1984 something as basic as catering cannot even be provided anymore, neither can parcels be carried, stations be manned or passengers be protected from assorted types of pond-life...Yes, it's not 1984 anymore.

 

I think @JasonB means that the world has changed in the past 40 years. Progression in some areas and regression in some areas.

This particular thread is about progress. Almost nobody cares about catering on the trains, people just want to get around quickly.

Wages and prices are in an ever-increasing spiral, and in order to keep up, everything else needs to be stripped back.

If we go back forty years, to the days of catering on trains, Ireland was broke, nobody had anything, nobody could afford anything, the trains were lovely to look at but crap to travel on, it was a different world.

Adding things like catering back in would literally be throwing money away for nothing.

[minister_for_hardship]

Catering would be "nice to have" but if the costs don't stack up, well then. The way people go on you'd swear it was Michelin starred grub, that it was not, certainly not in the 90s at any rate. Journeys here are short compared with elsewhere so I don't think there is a need for it, especially to humor people who either never travel or hop on board once in a blue moon just to complain.

Curtains on windows, a near useless piece of fabric to be dragged around, get grubby or gather dust and needing replacement. People don't even have curtains in modern houses anymore! Other railways have pull-down blinds but our sun is rarely strong enough to warrant these and knowing the public, they would be wrecked in jig time.

The one thing I do miss is the ability to order or bring my own beer on board like most any other country in the world but thanks to a minority of people who are chronically unable to behave themselves and a lack of deterrents here we are. This is a society wide problem and not exclusive to rail. If AGS are unwilling or unable to provide anything more than a sporadic, reactive patrolling of public transport, a dedicated transport police is needed like most other countries, I don't see why we have to be an exception.

80s nostalgia. 1984, when it was a few years since they had the worst accident on this island in living memory? A cash starved system sometimes literally held together with baler twine? Do we really want to return to that??

Edited March 3 by minister_for_hardship

[Galteemore]

3 hours ago, minister_for_hardship said:

Catering would be "nice to have" but if the costs don't stack up, well then. The way people go on you'd swear it was Michelin starred grub, that it was not, certainly not in the 90s at any rate. Journeys here are short compared with elsewhere so I don't think there is a need for it, especially to humor people who either never travel or hop on board once in a blue moon just to complain.

Curtains on windows, a near useless piece of fabric to be dragged around, get grubby or gather dust and needing replacement. People don't even have curtains in modern houses anymore! Other railways have pull-down blinds but our sun is rarely strong enough to warrant these and knowing the public, they would be wrecked in jig time.

The one thing I do miss is the ability to order or bring my own beer on board like most any other country in the world but thanks to a minority of people who are chronically unable to behave themselves and a lack of deterrents here we are. This is a society wide problem and not exclusive to rail. If AGS are unwilling or unable to provide anything more than a sporadic, reactive patrolling of public transport, a dedicated transport police is needed like most other countries, I don't see why we have to be an exception.

80s nostalgia. 1984, when it was a few years since they had the worst accident on this island in living memory? A cash starved system sometimes literally held together with baler twine? Do we really want to return to that??

Interesting Minister. I was thinking along similar lines so to speak. Much as I have enjoyed hot food on board, and sometimes a cup of tea is enough, its the unusual  juxtaposition of pleasures which is delightful rather than the quality of the cuisine. Like Dr Johnson’s comments on a dog walking upright - one wonders not that it is done badly but that it is done at all. The ‘glory days’ I recall when trolleys appeared even on the early morning Newcastle-Stranraer,  when a fresh cup of tea enlivened the Scottish lowlands are gone for ever sadly. The economics don’t stack up, and punters can get a drink and snack to take onboard from station facilities that are much more lavish than they were decades ago.

Here on the Big Island it’s a luxury for first class and long distance. Indeed at least one TOC has scrapped it entirely …read why below. Interestingly, Chiltern’s London-Birmingham service is similar in timings to the Enterprise, and runs with similar loco-hauled stock, but manages without dining facilities.  Pic from Railway Gazette 

 

 https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/15289458.rail-operator-announces-will-scrap-on-board-catering/

Edited March 3 by Galteemore

[JasonB]

9 hours ago, DERAILED said:

It's not 1984 anymore - what does this even mean? In a great many ways the railway has gone backwards since 1984 something as basic as catering cannot even be provided anymore, neither can parcels be carried, stations be manned or passengers be protected from assorted types of pond-life...Yes, it's not 1984 anymore.

Sorry, who are you, another one of Captain Nostalgia's musketeers? 

I'll explain what I mean. It's quite simple really. Nowadays, Irish Rail get passengers from A to B and in the process of doing so, try to break even. Reason being, because it's not 1984 anymore. @Noel brought up forty years ago, which by the way has nothing to do with the original post in this thread. 

@DJ Dangerous has explained exactly what I meant above, so has saved me the bother of wasting anymore of my time on this today. 

[Broithe]

Nostalgia used to be a lot better years ago. 

I don't think there's much point in it now.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

This post has gone downhill

[DJ Dangerous]

39 minutes ago, Broithe said:

Nostalgia used to be a lot better years ago. 

I don't think there's much point in it now.

 

Brrrrrrringgggg.

"Hello?"

Oscar Wilde called, he wants his sarcasm back.

As @minister_for_hardship, @Galteemore and @JasonB have all said, it's about the numbers.

You can't take just one piece of 1984, slot it into today and expect it to behave the same.

I posted this in the other thread on the same topic, basically agreeing with the lads above, but with two threads on the same thing, the topic can become muddy:

 

On 1/3/2024 at 2:49 PM, DJ Dangerous said:

Have you any cost/benefit figures on catering services?

Initial start-up cost, operating costs, cost of infrastructure required on trains and at stations, insurance costs, licencing costs, plus the occasional lawsuit when some Negative Numpty says that they got food poisoning?

Vs. Increased income to cover the costs and turn a profit?

 

 

 

[flange lubricator]

1 hour ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

This post has gone downhill

Like the MK4’s it maybe in need of an upgrade? 

[DERAILED]

4 hours ago, JasonB said:

Sorry, who are you, another one of Captain Nostalgia's musketeers? 

I'll explain what I mean. It's quite simple really. Nowadays, Irish Rail get passengers from A to B and in the process of doing so, try to break even. Reason being, because it's not 1984 anymore. @Noel brought up forty years ago, which by the way has nothing to do with the original post in this thread. 

@DJ Dangerous has explained exactly what I meant above, so has saved me the bother of wasting anymore of my time on this today. 

Sorry, who are you some sort trainspotter who thinks he should be on the stage?

I'll explain what I mean, It's quite simple really. Back in the 1980s, CIE/IE got passengers from A to B in a good deal more comfort than they do today and in the process, tried to break even. They failed to do so then and there's no sign that by making rail travel an endurance test rather than a pleasure, they are any nearer to breaking even. I'll put your patronising bad manners down to the fact that you're probably not old enough to remember the 1980s yourself. As an aside, do you ever take the train or are you one of the camera swinging brigade that swan around the country in their car taking photographs . I suspect if you were a regular rail user you might have stronger views on the range of facilities available.

[DJ Dangerous]

17 minutes ago, DERAILED said:

Sorry, who are you some sort trainspotter who thinks he should be on the stage?

I'll explain what I mean, It's quite simple really. Back in the 1980s, CIE/IE got passengers from A to B in a good deal more comfort than they do today and in the process, tried to break even. They failed to do so then and there's no sign that by making rail travel an endurance test rather than a pleasure, they are any nearer to breaking even. I'll put your patronising bad manners down to the fact that you're probably not old enough to remember the 1980s yourself. As an aside, do you ever take the train or are you one of the camera swinging brigade that swan around the country in their car taking photographs . I suspect if you were a regular rail user you might have stronger views on the range of facilities available.

 

Just one clarification.

Much as I love 80's and 90's models, the real life prototypes were anything but comfortable.

And the food was crap.

And they smelled wierd.

You're right, though, that @JasonB fellow is an impudent little toad, these kids today don't know anything, with their rap music and their Tik-Tok videos.

[JasonB]

On 3/3/2024 at 2:42 PM, DERAILED said:

Sorry, who are you some sort trainspotter who thinks he should be on the stage?

I'll explain what I mean, It's quite simple really. Back in the 1980s, CIE/IE got passengers from A to B in a good deal more comfort than they do today and in the process, tried to break even. They failed to do so then and there's no sign that by making rail travel an endurance test rather than a pleasure, they are any nearer to breaking even. I'll put your patronising bad manners down to the fact that you're probably not old enough to remember the 1980s yourself. As an aside, do you ever take the train or are you one of the camera swinging brigade that swan around the country in their car taking photographs . I suspect if you were a regular rail user you might have stronger views on the range of facilities available.

Trainspotter? I'd love to know how you came to that conclusion. 

Yes, failed to break even, so you've just agreed with the point I was making.

Patronising bad manners? Maybe have a look at your reply to my original post, which didn't actually concern you, and it might explain my reaction. And what about the numerous insults in your post above? 

And for your information, I am old enough to remember the 1980's, and they weren't all that great. Even if I wasn't, is it your belief that nobody is entitled to an opinion if they're not a relic?  

One positive that has come from these interactions, is that it has confirmed my personal opinion of this forum and the handful of members who continue to gaslight and bully, while avoid being called out. One in particular, being a repeat offender, who decided to react to this post, for no reason other than to provoke a reaction. 

Edited March 10 by JasonB

[JasonB]

1 hour ago, DJ Dangerous said:

You're right, though, that @JasonB fellow is an impudent little toad, these kids today don't know anything, with their rap music and their Tik-Tok videos.

Seriously,Tik-Tok? you know me better than that. Anyway, thanks for the glowing reference, Dave.  

[Broithe]

I had a clockwork Super-8 cine camera.

Is that what the youths use to make these "Tik-Tok videos"..?

[Galteemore]

40 minutes ago, Broithe said:

I had a clockwork Super-8 cine camera.

Is that what the youths use to make these "Tik-Tok videos"..?

Are you winding us up? 

[Noel]

7 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

This post has gone downhill

Yes it's not like those wonderful internet posts back in the 1970s when we all had dial up modems!   

[DJ Dangerous]

3 hours ago, JasonB said:

Seriously,Tik-Tok? you know me better than that. Anyway, thanks for the glowing reference, Dave.  

 

That was sarcasm, Ray, as apparently now we're saying it every time we do it.

 

2 hours ago, Noel said:

Yes it's not like those wonderful internet posts back in the 1970s when we all had dial up modems!   

 

So, @Noel, now that you have free time to use the forum, how about those numbers, please?

You are adamant that catering is required, and I'd love to see the basic calculations to support that position?

Broad strokes, though, please, as I'm just a lowly cleaner, not a Retired Company Director nor anything so grand.

Am I being unreasonable in asking for more info? I don't think so?