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Posted (edited)

Keep us informed on how you get on! There'll be a few wannabe kit builders (myself included) watching on with interest.

Looking at the SSM webpage: I would think, given the MGWR connection, and it being your first venture into loco kits that the little E class would be a good choice. I'm not sure if they worked Kilfree Junction but they'd be honouring the Midland anyhow.

Other than that, there's also the J15 from SSM. They probably passed through Kilfree Junction - sure they went everywhere on the GSR

Edited by Flying Snail
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Posted (edited)

An E class would be ideal. But building a loco first thing is an expensive experiment. I speak as one who has built 5 brass locos and is working on another. I’d start with a simple wagon or building kit first. Soldering is not that difficult but will take practice. You will also need some basic tools such as a simple hold and fold. And if building a loco, then a simple chassis jig is a must - Poppys Wood Tech make an excellent one. 

 

Edited by Galteemore
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1 hour ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Lads I'm going to head into the dark arts side of the hobby, I'm looking for a steam loco for my Kilfree Junction layout, so I'm picking the brains of the elders here who can tell me which kit to get? Studio Scale Models have a few options.

Before doing that, have a go at SSM's Wickham inspection car. At 27 Euros, it's not going to bankrupt you if you mess it up. All brass, so your soldering skills will be tested, but not complex.

Once you're satisfied it's gone together, I think the E/J26 will be ready and waiting for quite a lot of soldering.

Don't make the mistake that one past Forum member made of launching straight into the 800 class 4-6-0. He ruined it and it was a terrible thing to watch it happen. 170 Euros down the drain.

 

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1 hour ago, Flying Snail said:

Keep us informed on how you get on! There'll be a few wannabe kit builders (myself included) watching on with interest.

Looking at the SSM webpage: I would think, given the MGWR connection, and it being your first venture into loco kits that the little E class would be a good choice. I'm not sure if they worked Kilfree Junction but they'd be honouring the Midland anyhow.

Other than that, there's also the J15 from SSM. They probably passed through Kilfree Junction - sure they went everywhere on the GSR

J15s wouldn't have been used on the Midland - instead, their own equivalents, the J18s. The J15s were seen always as "southern engines", and while they invaded the DSER soon after 1925 and would remain there to the end of steam, they rarely if ever ventured anywhere on trhe MGWR - never on most lines - and never darkened the corridors of Wisht Caark either. As you say, the "E" class tank is suitable - and in terms of an MGWR branch line, actually the only authentic option currently available. A RTR Midland engine is something that as in preservation in real life, is sorely lacking.

42 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

Before doing that, have a go at SSM's Wickham inspection car. At 27 Euros, it's not going to bankrupt you if you mess it up. All brass, so your soldering skills will be tested, but not complex.

Once you're satisfied it's gone together, I think the E/J26 will be ready and waiting for quite a lot of soldering.

Don't make the mistake that one past Forum member made of launching straight into the 800 class 4-6-0. He ruined it and it was a terrible thing to watch it happen. 170 Euros down the drain.

 

Oooooh boy, I remember that! Painful!

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

Before doing that, have a go at SSM's Wickham inspection car. At 27 Euros, it's not going to bankrupt you if you mess it up. All brass, so your soldering skills will be tested, but not complex.

Once you're satisfied it's gone together, I think the E/J26 will be ready and waiting for quite a lot of soldering.

Don't make the mistake that one past Forum member made of launching straight into the 800 class 4-6-0. He ruined it and it was a terrible thing to watch it happen. 170 Euros down the drain.

 

Might purchase that Wickham inspection car myself as my soldering could be improved.

Edited by Metrovik
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For Kilfree Junction, while it was obviously on the MGWR, and while GSWR or GNR locos would have been absent, ex-GSWR carriages turned up from time to time. At the very end, the branch set was an ex-GSWR six wheel passenger brake, and either a Bredin compo or a GSWR composite wooden-bodied bogie.

You can thus make an authentic branch mixed train with the following:

SSM  GSWR 6-wheel passenger brake third or full brake. (Failing that, the forthcoming Hattons ready-to-run 6-wheel full brake is a pretty close approximation to some GSWR coach types)

SSM  Bredin composite

SSM CIE brakevan kit for the end of mixed trains

Various wagons of either IRM, Provincial Wagons or SSM origin; namely (a) the IRM flats, Bullied opens and H vans; (essential) the Provincial cattle wagons, as cattle was the only busy traffic that branch ever had; JM design GSR open wagons; and SSM MGWR convertible vans and open wagons.

On the main line side, a Murphy 121 or 141, and unless RTR laminates appear, the forthcoming IRM Park Royals, mixed with SSM Bredins, and essentially a "tin van" - for which the only current option is a pretty basic example from Silverfox; and beware, as the silver and green options are invariably in an inexcusably wrong version of the livery. If you're in steam times, obviously carriages will be green, as the orange and black only appeared a matter of months before all steam ended. The good news here is that the Ballaghaderreen branch seems to be the only place where any coach newly turned out in orange and black was ever steam hauled - this was an old GSWR six-wheel full brake, for a matter of weeks before that line closed.

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Should have added, with regard to carriages, the reason I'm focussing on ex-GSWR types is that neither in ready to run, nor in kit form - plastic, brass or anything else - is there any variety of MGWR passenger vehicle. Given that many of their six-wheelers lasted until 1963*, and a small number of their bogie coaches lasted a few years longer, another omission from the model world.

But the thing is - MGWR coaching design was so unlike that of any other company, that no conversion or kitbashing can produce anything remotely like any MGWR coach of any design at all - so until or unless that happens, we need ex-GSWR, GSR or CIE types! To have MGWR coaches would require complete scratchbuild at the moment.

(* The very last passenger-carrying six-wheelers were withdrawn the same time as the very last steam engines - early 1963).

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Should have added, with regard to carriages, the reason I'm focussing on ex-GSWR types is that neither in ready to run, nor in kit form - plastic, brass or anything else - is there any variety of MGWR passenger vehicle. Given that many of their six-wheelers lasted until 1963*, and a small number of their bogie coaches lasted a few years longer, another omission from the model world.

But the thing is - MGWR coaching design was so unlike that of any other company, that no conversion or kitbashing can produce anything remotely like any MGWR coach of any design at all - so until or unless that happens, we need ex-GSWR, GSR or CIE types! To have MGWR coaches would require complete scratchbuild at the moment.

(* The very last passenger-carrying six-wheelers were withdrawn the same time as the very last steam engines - early 1963).

Alphagraphix carry a line of 7mm brass MGWR carriage kits (locos too), but obviously they wouldn't suit Gabhal here as he needs 4mm*. However, they also do card kits of MGWR carriages, and some on here have used their card kits to great effect as templates for plasticard builds ... these could be rescaled for 4mm

https://alphagraphixkits.co.uk/449045255

Edit: * I'm assuming you're planning on OO/4mm but maybe 7mm is an option

Edited by Flying Snail
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5 minutes ago, Flying Snail said:

Alphagraphix carry a line of 7mm brass MGWR carriage kits (locos too), but obviously they wouldn't suit Gabhal here as he needs 4mm*. However, they also do card kits of MGWR carriages, and some on here have used their card kits to great effect as templates for plasticard builds ... these could be rescaled for 4mm

https://alphagraphixkits.co.uk/449045255

Edit: * I'm assuming you're planning on OO/4mm but maybe 7mm is an option

Roger will rescale any of his card kits to 4mm. Ideal templates for coach building. I use his card kits for just that purpose. 

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1 minute ago, Galteemore said:

Roger will rescale any of his card kits to 4mm. Ideal templates for coach building. I use his card kits for just that purpose. 

Forgot about those indeed! Yes, great for templates though from memory all of the printed ones carry incorrect livery.

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1 hour ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Thanks lads, great information as usual, I'm well used to soldering, brazing, gas welding etc etc, I also did my apprenticeship as a sheet metal fabricator so we'll see if Anco were any good 🤭, I appreciate the help and hints.

Endorse all the sound advice above. It makes sense to start with something reasonably simple, if only as a confidence booster.
However, you seem to be comfortable with your soldering skills so you’re well on your way already. If you do decide to launch into a loco kit as a first project, I’d advise avoiding anything with outside cylinders or complicated motion. I do. Regularly. As others have suggested, The E Class from SSM looks like a good choice. 
Best of luck with whatever you take on. There’ll be plenty of advice on this forum if you get stuck. 
Alan

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33 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

Endorse all the sound advice above. It makes sense to start with something reasonably simple, if only as a confidence booster.
However, you seem to be comfortable with your soldering skills so you’re well on your way already. If you do decide to launch into a loco kit as a first project, I’d advise avoiding anything with outside cylinders or complicated motion. I do. Regularly. As others have suggested, The E Class from SSM looks like a good choice. 
Best of luck with whatever you take on. There’ll be plenty of advice on this forum if you get stuck. 
Alan

Thanks Alan, I think I will start with something easy, this forum is an encyclopedia.

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Posted (edited)

Worth considering changing to 7mm/O Scale if your not heavily committed to 4mm/OO due to the wider range of Irish kits available and easier to assemble/scratchbuild due to the larger size especially if you get older. David's and Galteemores models are excellent examples of what can be achieved in 7mm/O Scale by scratchbuiding and using kits.

Although the CIE Tin Van kits are no longer available the JM Design ex-MGWR 2-4-0 kit is available to order and the etched parts for the MGWR Horsebox and Meat Vans are available to order with cast detail parts available separately from Dart Castings in the UK. https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/forum/57-jm-design/

Personally I assemble etched kits with a 145° detailing and 180° sheet metal solders available from suppliers in the UK, using a home brewed acid flux diluted Ranex Rustbuster (dilute phosphoric acid) an Australian product, let down with distilled water. Tool wise most importantly a 50 watt soldering iron (temperature controlled) for main assembly, with 18 and 25 watt Antex for detailed work/smaller components, 2mm & 1/8' parallel reamers for preparing axle bearings/brushes, a collection of small tapered reamers for opening out holes in coupling rods, 8, 10, 12BA taps for cutting threads in cast/sheet metal parts, collection of needle files, small tin snips, piercing saw and razor saw for cutting/trimming sheet metal parts. I built up my collection of tools over 40 odd years.

One of the more challenging aspects of assembling a loco kit at the moment is sourcing the necessary parts to motorise the loco due to the decline in the number of specialist suppliers in the UK. Motors and gearboxes tended to supplied from different suppliers to those that supply wheels and other parts. Motors and Gearboxes tended to be supplied by High Level who have an on-line shop and Branchlines who advertise in the UK magazines and have an e-mail address.  Wheels are supplied by Markits and Alan Gibson Workshop (AGW) who can be contacted by phone or e-mail. Markits wheels are probably the best option for OO as the wheels bolt to a squared axle with a locknut using a special slotted screw-driver and the crankpins with a similar arrangement avoiding the need for specialist quartering tools.

Edited by Mayner
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On 7/5/2024 at 11:34 PM, Mayner said:

....One of the more challenging aspects of assembling a loco kit at the moment is sourcing the ....

kit itself, as etches take longer to supply 

...due to the decline in the number of specialist etch companies in the UK. ....

FTFY.

SSM waited 5 months to receive a new batch of J15 etches.

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8 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Excellent. Chassis building can be fraught (speaks someone in the midst of it) but a jig like this will help. Just make sure your solder is on a reel and then between the jigs and the reels you’ll be fine!! ;)

Excellent, your dialogue is up there with your kit building, thanks again lad.

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18 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Well just because I know a man! 

This bundle of tricks arrived in the post today, I'm delighted but I have no intention of opening any of the packets yet, I will get a nice little wagon or coach to assemble first, plenty time for practice.

 

IMG_20240516_172253.jpg

Two boilers? Will you be squeezing two J15s out of that lot?

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19 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Well just because I know a man! 

This bundle of tricks arrived in the post today, I'm delighted but I have no intention of opening any of the packets yet, I will get a nice little wagon or coach to assemble first, plenty time for practice.

 

IMG_20240516_172253.jpg

Possibly two kits the original 1985 TMD and Studio Scale Models (Paul Greene) versions. I have built both the TMD and SSM versions of the J15 Kit durin the past 30 years.

The original TMD kit was etched brass, with square section frame spacers , brass tube boiler, turned brass chimney and dome and Slaters tender axleguards and springs.  The SSM version was in etched nickel silver, boiler rolled from brass sheet, whitemetal castings including boiler fittings, smokebox door, tender axleguards and springs.

What's in the unopened bag between the castings, pre-formed boiler-firebox and instructions?

Reminds me of the time about 20 years ago  I bought what I thought were 6 part and unbuilt TMD kits at a UK exhibition and found that I had actually acquired 7 kits. 

 

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25 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Possibly two kits the original 1985 TMD and Studio Scale Models (Paul Greene) versions. I have built both the TMD and SSM versions of the J15 Kit durin the past 30 years.

Quite funny how there's two generations of the same kit.

Same thing with the J26 / E tank. There are two versions of the chassis - original brass, and later n/s - and some chassis parts from one cannot fit the other, due to the wheelbases coming out slightly different.

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1 hour ago, Mayner said:

Possibly two kits the original 1985 TMD and Studio Scale Models (Paul Greene) versions. I have built both the TMD and SSM versions of the J15 Kit durin the past 30 years.

The original TMD kit was etched brass, with square section frame spacers , brass tube boiler, turned brass chimney and dome and Slaters tender axleguards and springs.  The SSM version was in etched nickel silver, boiler rolled from brass sheet, whitemetal castings including boiler fittings, smokebox door, tender axleguards and springs.

What's in the unopened bag between the castings, pre-formed boiler-firebox and instructions?

Reminds me of the time about 20 years ago  I bought what I thought were 6 part and unbuilt TMD kits at a UK exhibition and found that I had actually acquired 7 kits. 

 

I haven't opened the bag yet but I will 

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4 hours ago, Mayner said:

Possibly two kits the original 1985 TMD and Studio Scale Models (Paul Greene) versions. I have built both the TMD and SSM versions of the J15 Kit durin the past 30 years.

The original TMD kit was etched brass, with square section frame spacers , brass tube boiler, turned brass chimney and dome and Slaters tender axleguards and springs.  The SSM version was in etched nickel silver, boiler rolled from brass sheet, whitemetal castings including boiler fittings, smokebox door, tender axleguards and springs.

What's in the unopened bag between the castings, pre-formed boiler-firebox and instructions?

Reminds me of the time about 20 years ago  I bought what I thought were 6 part and unbuilt TMD kits at a UK exhibition and found that I had actually acquired 7 kits. 

 

Bag opened John, it's TDM 

IMG_20240517_172725.jpg

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