Rebuilding Portadown to Derry

[Patrick Davey]

So the All-Island Strategic Rail Review has been published.

 

It's all well and good to recommend a number of restorations, but do any of us actually believe that any of these will ever happen?

But......let's be positive for a while and imagine that the go ahead has been given to rebuild The Derry Road. Presumably they would firstly need to plan a route, so they could start costing the build accurately, so let's do that for the stretch from Portadown to Dungannon, assuming that the plan is to use as much of the original trackbed as possible.

 

* The new Derry Road would leave the main line at the previous junction, and swing right, into what is now the park & ride area for Portadown station - it would be easy enough to redesign this area.

 

* Then the line would need to either replace, or squeeze in beside a stretch of the now much wider Corcrain Road, at the end of which can be seen the parapets of the original Corcrain railway overbridge - let's assume this bridge would be demolished as it currently serves no purpose. It should be possible to redesign the area to accommodate both the road and a single railway track: a double track might be more of a challenge to accommodate, although that seems to have been the actual arrangement in railway days.

 

* The trackbed between the outskirts of Portadown and the first previous station at Annaghmore is largely clear, although mostly erased back into the landscape - apart from a few slight diversions to avoid residential settlements, it should be easy enough to restore the original route. There were a lot of level crossings along this stretch though, all on minor roads, so that could present some challenges in order to maintain local access, particularly for farmers.

 

* Presumably none of the three former intermediate stations between Portadown and Dungannon would reopen: Annaghmore, Verner's Bridge and Trew & Moy. On the approach to Annaghmore, a number of stone overbridges survive for possible reuse (along with some huge telegraph poles, if you know where to look!) There would need to be a diversion around the now derelict site of Annaghmore station itself, due to recent residential development (or could these be purchased...?) and the same around Verner's Bridge as the station is now in private hands (and looks to be beautifully maintained, including the skew bridge).

 

* Then comes the first major bridge rebuild - the bridge which crosses the River Blackwater and brings the railway out of County Armagh and into County Tyrone. The original metal piers are still there but presumably too badly corroded to be of use in a rebuild - so a brand new bridge would most likely be required.

 

* Another slight diversion would be required around the site of the former Trew & Moy station, which is now owned by the Hughes family who run a busy mushroom production facility. I believe a relative of the family was the last stationmaster here and there are a lot of well-maintained railway features around the beautiful station building, including repositioned signals and a classic GNR wooden waiting shelter. I think that the former and quite distinctive goods shed is now the refreshment room for the workers at the facility and the Hughes family are very passionate about the railway heritage of the location.

 

* A short distance further, the line approaches Killyman, where one of the two former overbidges in the village remains, carrying the access road to The Old Rectory wedding venue - this bridge is in excellent condition but the next one has been demolished and would need rebuilt so the line could pass under the Trewmount Road. The stone abutments of an underbridge a short distance further also remain but would possibly need replacing due to their age and condition (I know how they feel).

 

* The next major engineering challenge must now be considered - how to traverse the modern M1 motorway. The former trackbed crosses the motorway near to where the Culnagrew Road crosses it today so perhaps the simplest solution would be to build a new underbridge to do likewise. This bridge would need to be a substantial structure in order to bring the railway across the motorway.

 

* No sooner has one engineering challenge been dealt with, when another comes along - the famous Dungannon tunnel. The structure still survives although the southern portal has apparently been filled in and landscaped over, and there is quite a bit of residential development in the area - it does appear (from Google Earth) however that a new railway might just be able to squeeze in alongside the nearest new housing development, particularly as it would most likely be single track here (even if the whole rebuild was somehow going to be double track) due to the single bore of the tunnel. One can hardly imagine the tunnel being rebuilt to accommodate double track. The northern portal survives in a deep tree-filled cutting (as Barra Best recently discovered) but obviously the condition of the actual tunnel would require much consideration.

 

* The approach to the former station at Dungannon is largely clear, with just a few underbridges requiring reconstruction. The station site itself has been cleared but remains devoid of new construction, instead forming part of Dungannon Park.

 

So a few challenges definitely exist for rebuilding the line along the original alignment - whilst the trackbed itself is largely clear, the presence of a certain amount of residential development would necessitate diversions (or compulsory purchase - ugh), and there would be a few substantial engineering challenges too such as a new Blackwater River bridge (easy), a bridge crossing the M1 motorway (easy-ish) and of course the Dungannon tunnel (not so easy!)

 

Looking forward to your thoughts!

 

The above observations were made through site visits in conjunction with studying Google Earth - GE is an essential tool for the railway explorer!

Edited August 1 by Patrick Davey

[David Holman]

It all sounds VERY expensive! A million euros goes nowhere these days (though I wouldn't say no if someone offered me) and big projects seem to go into the hundreds, if not more.

 Then comes the question of whether or not such an investment, be it government or private, would ever recoup the cost? In these uncertain times, what are the chances of it being completed? Look at the HS2 debacle this side of the water.

 Love to see it happen, but suspect cost will ensure it doesn't.

[StevieB]

In addition to rebuilding proposals, there are a number of completely new lines proposed:

1) Belfast to Newry,

2) Drogheda to Dublin, and

3) Hazelhatch to Portarlington.

We can but dream.
 

Stephen

 

[DoctorPan]

As someone who works in the industry and indeed in a former life worked for Arup, the writers of the report, this is a change in policy from the Department of Transport, Finance and Public Expenditure. Ryan has pushed hard for a lot of behind the scenes changes in the departments and civil service and this is the result of it. All proposals in this report apparently have a benefits to cost ratio of 1:1 so they believe they will break even at minimum. A second factor that pushes the cost of these down is that it may be cheaper to build these then pay the fines to Europe for the breach of carbon emission limits. Thirdly, the European Investment Bank is involved to make monies available for this and indeed reviewing the plan to see which aspects can be deliveried quickly and most bang for buck. And finally another factor is this is being approached as how the motorway network was built in the 2000s and the investment that got. There's a load of movement and growth within the rail industry, hell Irish Rail and private consultants are constantly hiring engineering staff for rail projects.

[Mike 84C]

Maybe there has to be a move away from pure cost benefit /will it make a profit? To a social benefit model this side of the water  I'm not sure there's the political vision to make it happen.

[Wexford70]

Does the fact there is an election coming influence the timing of the release of this aspirational plan?

Without significant EU grants, I cannot see these coming to fruition given the level of national debt. (Statistics | NTMA)

 

Edited August 1 by Wexford70

[DoctorPan]

39 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Does the fact there is an election coming influence the timing of the release of this aspirational plan?

Without significant EU grants, I cannot see these coming to fruition given the level of national debt. (Statistics | NTMA)

 

The timing of this report has nothing to do with an election. It's been held up for nearly two years because Stormont had no sitting government. 

[Northroader]

It could just happen, when you consider the rail projects that have happened/ in progress in Spain with EU finance.

[Mayner]

Presumably before anything happens the Northern Ireland Assembly would first have to approve the reports recommendation to re-build Portadown-Derry and both the British and Irish Government's approve (provide funding) for the rebuild. The cost benefit of 1:1 for the project bascially means for every £1 spent on the project results in a return of £1 to the economy not that the project breaking even.

While Irish Governments tend to take a pragmatic approach to their economic and social policy, British Governments tend to flip-flop between centre left and centre right positions on economic and social policy. 

Would an incomming Conservative Government or Conservative-Liberal Coalition potentially cancel the funding for a rebuild of the Derry Road on idealogical grounds in a similar manner to the current centre-risht New Zealand Governments cancellation of rail and infrastructure projects approved by the previous centre-left Government?

 

[Branchline121]

Another change to the alignment I could see happening is the section crossing the Foyle. I imagine they would want to keep inside the border and avoid having a few kilometres needlessly inside the Republic; Foyle Road station isn't there anymore too so they would presumably stick to the east bank of the Foyle so they can connect with Waterside station. The alignment at Strabane likely won't be preserved either seen as the old station site is now under a roundabout.

The review also recommended electrifying the Derry Road, so any over bridges or tunnels would likely be rebuilt/demolished, or alternatively the track be lowered to accommodate for the OHLE. It sounds challenging but would be great to see it happen.

[Darrman]

Interesting thread. I've spent a while looking at the Derry Road on maps online over the past few days. This isn't as good as actually visiting the places, but I'll still leave a few comments on the line after Dungannon.

Some housing estates south of Donaghmore block the alignment, but these can be easily avoided. The station itself has been taken over with farm sheds. The village has 1,000 people so it wouldn't be impossible to open a station there, but it would be about 800m distant immediately south of its original location and may be skipped due to proximity to Dungannon. Up to 250m walking could be cut off for the sake of one house.

The site of Pomeroy station has been cleared and a shed is somewhat in the way, but otherwise there are no apparent obstructions here. With less than a thousand people living there a station would be dubious: it goes against keeping the original alignment when possible, but would bypassing Pomeroy and Carrickmore (less than a thousand, widely dispersed) entirely be worth it to knock a few miles off the route?

Both Sixmilecross and Beragh station sites are in use as storage yards, with a football pitch and car park blocking the alignment soon after Beragh. All of these are easily avoidable. Neither village is big, but Beragh, with about 500 people, is the larger one.

Omagh. The fifth-largest town in Ireland without a railway station. The alignment is buried under the A5. I have no idea where to begin with figuring out an alignment or a station location. Do you break the bank with tunnels, or have a station uselessly distant from the town centre? Build on top of the A5 if it gets replaced?

Mountjoy Halt's trackbed is now an access road to a builder's yard near a petrol station on the A5 and not much else. It's worth noting the Ulster American Folk Park is built on top of the trackbed around here and would need to be avoided. Newtownstewart, with 1,500, is worth considering for a station. However, the trackbed is again buried under the A5 and is on the wrong side of the river. Going around south isn't impossible.

The Victoria Bridge station has been demolished and replaced with an empty field. A housing estate and some sort of water works block the other side. It looks possible to get through, though it may take knocking a house and building on some gardens.

The trackbed through Sion Mills is largely a farmer's track to the south and football pitch access to the north of the station. There seems to be room to have a railway pass through while leaving an access track. A population of 2,000 is well worth considering for a station.

Strabane is another big problem. A housing estate, followed by an industrial estate, followed by the A5 all get in the way. It's possible to get around via hopping into the Republic for a bit, but no decent station sites are apparent - any would be on the wrong side of the A5.

As already mentioned in the thread, it's possible a Northern Irish government would want to keep the line out of the Republic. Along the original route west of the Foyle, there's one house in the way and most of the alignment has been converted to farmer's tracks. The original stations are passable, but it may be simpler to leave them with their owners and bypass the villages along the way - St. Johnston is the largest at 500. The proposed Letterkenny railway would benefit from the Derry Road staying where it originally was. A cycle path appears once re-entering the North, which would have to be dealt with somehow. Once within the city limits housing estates are somewhat avoidable (though a few lay-bys will have to go) and the last approach to Foyle Road is largely clear, aside from the remnants of the Foyle Valley Railway and an electricity substation blocking the way to the car park on top of Foyle Road proper.

If using the east route, it is slightly shorter and would have Waterside as the target station. Many more houses have been built across the trackbed, which was built for 3' instead of 5'3". Newbuildings poses a similar problem to the major towns earlier along the route, and the alignment has been entirely built on. From there, we meet the A5 once again on the original alignment. It just about seems possible to head east of Newbuildings and the Derry suburbs along the Foyle, and cross the A5 approaching Victoria Road - a bike path would have to go. From there, demolish everything in the way of a connection to Waterside.

A hybrid approach of some kind isn't impossible: more so taking the west bank until bridging the Foyle at some point to get to Waterside than the other way round.

One last bit of analysis: station numbers and populations. There's no doubt most of the previous halts won't re-open, and it's very possible that Dungannon, Omagh, and Strabane will be the only stations built. Some stations have the potential for larger catchment areas, but I'll just stick to census figures for the one place.

Bold = major town. Italics = no station originally. Only halts Johnson gives in CAPS are listed - railmotor halts are ignored. Sources for population are the 2021 census for the North and the 2022 census for the Republic.

• (Portadown)
• Scotch Street: 675
• Annaghmore: 98
• Vernersbridge: N/A
• Trew and Moy: N/A (Moy has 1,941, but is 4km from station)
• Killyman: 1,057
• Dungannon: 16,361
• Donaghmore: 1,182
• Pomeroy: 786
• Carrickmore: 625
• Sixmilecross: 251
• Beragh: 694
• Omagh: 20,353
• Mountjoy: 110
• Newtownstewart: 1,414
• Victoria Bridge: 362
• Sion Mills: 1,970
• Strabane: 13,456
• Porthall: N/A
• St. Johnston: 571
• Carrigans: 389
• (Derry)

 

 

 

Edited August 2 by Darrman
Mention census source

[Tractionman]

Interesting stuff ^^^

With the planned new lines, there's an opportunity surely to see entirely new alignments, rather than having to stick to the older/original ones, partly because of the barriers caused by post-closure development as @Darrmanpoints out, but also because the settlement/population/economic geography of Ireland has changed since those 19th cent lines were built, so new areas of demand/need, centres of population/industry etc, are surely what the new lines should link up? 

Plus the engineering requirements/differences between constructing a steam-hauled passenger railway in the 1850s compared to an electric(?)/ emu-based line in the 2050s, surely means we will have different route grades/alignments--look at how the TGV in France just ploughs across the landscape rather than following the old sinuous lines of the 19th cent!

A third point is the old lines here were closed long long ago (many in the early 1950s) and since then have been sold off piecemeal, lost to agriculture etc, so effectively are gone--not like the situation in GB with many Beeching closed routes still reasonably visible and largely intact, especially where protected by being repurposed as trails for walking and cycling, like the old Midland route through Monsal Dale.

So here there is no real practical or cost advantage trying to recreate the older/former routes/alignments, and as with new road developments (look at how quickly the new motorway network was created in the south here in the 2000s) the cost is probably going to be less taking a new route across the landscape rather than trying to negotiate the complex landownership/developed routes of the past, that ship has sailed (to mix metaphors!)...

cheers,

Keith

Edited August 2 by Tractionman
musing

[Galteemore]

Yes jndeed. The Derry Road was not planned as a single entity but was a blend of various railway projects (eg Omagh to Derry was part of a line from Dundalk via Enniskillen) and the line was notoriously demanding on locos and crews to work. Loco frames for instance took a hammering over the various curves and banks. The construction and routing was also based on a very different railway operating model - that of the common carrier for freight, mail and passenger services. Although I’d love to hear 131 barking up Carrickmore bank as she used to! 

Edited August 2 by Galteemore

[Patrick Davey]

Very interesting replies everyone, thank you.  A quick look along the remainder of the formation would suggest that the biggest challenges would be how to bring the railway back to Omagh and Strabane, as well as how to make it work in Derry.  There has been a discussion about making a future Derry Road connect with existing rails at Waterside but I am wondering is that necessary - it wasn’t the case in the past although if a Letterkenny link was constructed then it would probably be required. 

I imagine that there would be zero chance of bringing a line anywhere near the original formation through Omagh (how convenient was that station) although it looks to be less of a challenge in Strabane - the Foyle bridge still exists to the north of Strabane for local road traffic so has am sure been maintained, so I wonder how feasible it would be to upgrade it back to its original purpose?

[airfixfan]

Strabane to Derry easy enough Porthall bridge over the Foyle one half survives as it is County Donegal. The other half crossing the border removed in the early 1970s removed by the British Army ascites had become an IRA escape route! Porthall to Derry relatively clear although Carrigans is now a private house. See Disused stations website for maps/,photos etc

[Wexford70]

Brief discussion on RTE.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/clips/22420059/

Money and political will needed to deliver rail plan (rte.ie)

 

Edited August 6 by Wexford70

[226 Abhann na Suire]

I actually think (again only from looking at Google Earth) that Strabane will be the easiest to reconnect, due to it being such a dense and contained town.

A new alignment approaching from the south could travel north-northwest after Sion Mills before bending due north-northeast to follow the River Finn and have a train station after the Mourne river crossing slightly to the east of the service station on the Lifford Road. This would be very on the very edge of the town of Strabane while also being very close to Lifford (750 metres to both town centres from the proposed station site).

The line could subsequently follow the A5 all the way to Waterside station with minimal interruption to any existing property save for a small housing estate on the outside of Derry and of course the old quay buildings… Could this work…?

I am very much of the opinion that a largely new alignment will be required for all of the reasons mentioned above like electrification, need for double track, and suitability for new trains, plus of course meaning a more direct and faster route than the car.

Finally would there be any benefit to a triangle junction at Portadown to allow express services form Dublin…? 

Edited August 3 by 226 Abhann na Suire

[Patrick Davey]

That's an interesting point about a triangular junction at Portadown - with possible implications for the proposed link to Letterkenny.....

Would there be much demand for direct rail services between Letterkenny and Dublin I wonder - if so then a triangular junction at Portadown might be justified with possibly a new line from Strabane to LK along the old County Donegal narrow gauge route?  And....could this compete with the established Donegal-Dublin air service?  Donegal airport is quite a way from Letterkenny though so we'd be back to the familiar discussion about air v rail and how town centre to city centre times compare....?

Or does the bulk of LK's traffic go towards Derry - if so then there would be more justification for the direct link into the Maiden City, as per the old Lough Swilly route?  (Does anyone know if the proposed link follows the LLSR route or is it totally new?)

Ideally - both lines would be built, our forefathers had more foresight!!

#fantasy!!

 

Edited August 4 by Patrick Davey

[Darrman]

14 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

(Does anyone know if the proposed link follows the LLSR route or is it totally new?)

The map on the review suggests a direct branch line off the Derry Road rather than following either of the former routes.

22 hours ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Finally would there be any benefit to a triangle junction at Portadown to allow express services form Dublin…? 

While a triangle around the edge of the car park doesn't seem completely impossible, the line to Armagh and beyond is also proposed and would need to be factored in to such a plan. I can't see the authorities allowing a level crossing, so presumably the Armagh line would have to dive under this curve with only about 150m between the junction and where this hypothetical crossing would be. The A4 is only 30 metres further down the line, and would also need to be dealt with anyway. If Armagh has to dive under this curve, you can't get a curve off the curve from the Derry Road or the Great Northern's main line to reach Armagh.

Personally, I don't see any neat solutions at this point where three lines diverged. I'd just have Dublin-Derry trains reverse at Portadown.

[Patrick Davey]

5 hours ago, Darrman said:

I'd just have Dublin-Derry trains reverse at Portadown.

Makes sense - yes.

[Horsetan]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:02 AM, David Holman said:

It all sounds VERY expensive! A million euros goes nowhere these days (though I wouldn't say no if someone offered me) and big projects seem to go into the hundreds, if not more.

 Then comes the question of whether or not such an investment, be it government or private, would ever recoup the cost? In these uncertain times, what are the chances of it being completed? Look at the HS2 debacle this side of the water.

 Love to see it happen, but suspect cost will ensure it doesn't.

What will happen is that the usual can-kicking will take place; it's cheaper.

[leslie10646]

I think that Darrman is on the right track (pun intended).

The more that this line is build on a Brown Field Site, the better. HS1 was so built and came in close to time and budget.

All that said, the Government of the Peoples' Popular and Democratic Republic of Grot Britain has cancelled ALL further rail reopenings, so you can forget about it altogether, as Ivan says?

[airfixfan]

On 4/8/2024 at 12:52 AM, Patrick Davey said:

That's an interesting point about a triangular junction at Portadown - with possible implications for the proposed link to Letterkenny.....

Would there be much demand for direct rail services between Letterkenny and Dublin I wonder - if so then a triangular junction at Portadown might be justified with possibly a new line from Strabane to LK along the old County Donegal narrow gauge route?  And....could this compete with the established Donegal-Dublin air service?  Donegal airport is quite a way from Letterkenny though so we'd be back to the familiar discussion about air v rail and how town centre to city centre times compare....?

Or does the bulk of LK's traffic go towards Derry - if so then there would be more justification for the direct link into the Maiden City, as per the old Lough Swilly route?  (Does anyone know if the proposed link follows the LLSR route or is it totally new?)

Ideally - both lines would be built, our forefathers had more foresight!!

#fantasy!!

 

The old Swilly route to Derry is heavily built over

 Knowing the area well a spur at St Johnston to Letterkenny would be the easiest route ny far.

[Barl]

On 1/8/2024 at 8:49 AM, DoctorPan said:

As someone who works in the industry and indeed in a former life worked for Arup, the writers of the report, this is a change in policy from the Department of Transport, Finance and Public Expenditure. Ryan has pushed hard for a lot of behind the scenes changes in the departments and civil service and this is the result of it. All proposals in this report apparently have a benefits to cost ratio of 1:1 so they believe they will break even at minimum. A second factor that pushes the cost of these down is that it may be cheaper to build these then pay the fines to Europe for the breach of carbon emission limits. Thirdly, the European Investment Bank is involved to make monies available for this and indeed reviewing the plan to see which aspects can be deliveried quickly and most bang for buck. And finally another factor is this is being approached as how the motorway network was built in the 2000s and the investment that got. There's a load of movement and growth within the rail industry, hell Irish Rail and private consultants are constantly hiring engineering staff for rail projects.

As DoctorPan says, the governments view on railways has drastically changed in the last few years. Andrew Ebrill of the Department of Transport gave a very good talk on the report at the PWI Conference in June and emphasised the points DoctorPan says. One point he made, which I thought was very valid, is that there is an idealistic view of closed lines in Ireland and that many of the railway lines that were closed in the past were loss-making in a time when very few people had cars, meaning it would make little sense to reopen most of the closed lines. 

The report outlines proposals that not only have an equal cost:benefit ratio but also an environmental benefit. The naysayers will say it's a pipe dream but the point has been made that the proposals would need approximately €1bn a year to progress, which is close to what was being spent on the (now decent) motorway network over three decades or so. It was also mentioned that Ireland is about 10 years behind where it would have been with investment in railways due to the economic downturn. 

The discussions with the EIB aim to prioritise the timing and funding model of the proposals - it looks like the frontrunner appears to be the electrification and raising speed of the Dublin to Cork line. 

[airfixfan]

From Strabane to Derry the route through NI is too built up in contrast the former GNR main line is flat and all but intact from Porthall to the former railway museum site beside Craigavon Bridge in Derry

[Branchline121]

Well, action has now started taking place for the reopening of the Derry Road (article), which I find somewhat interesting considering the AISRR didn’t recommend undertaking for another 10 years, but I’m still glad it’s starting sooner rather than later.