Markleman Posted October 8 Posted October 8 15 hours ago, jhb171achill said: Indeed. Once all this is finished, and normal services are operating in and out of Grand Circus, I think lessons ought to be learned about how not to plan a new station, how not to build it, how not to advertise it, how not to predict dates, and how not to plan services. As of now, I drive or go by bus when I'm going between Dublin and Belfast. It doesn't need an inquiry into how to do this right. Somewhere there must be a file on how a more complex operation was carried out in 1995 when GVSt was re-opened. Or how the Cross Harbour Link was opened in 1994. Or (maybe a dusty file now) the Central Line was re-opened in 1976. All they had to do was learn from the experiences of previous projects. From what I recall all of those major changes were well planned and had very few of the shambolic moments that this mess has. Those projects were organised by a proper railway management team who knew about railways. Some of those people are still around (some even on this site). Each of those developments was a step towards running trains though the City Centre and providing cross town options for the travelling public. Like every S-Bahn, Crossrail or RER system you can think of. This latest mess interrupts all that progress made over the years to link the rail services through the city. Can you imagine all DART and outer suburban trains terminating at Connolly and everybody having to change? 2 2 Quote
Tractionman Posted October 8 Posted October 8 4 minutes ago, Markleman said: This latest mess interrupts all that progress made over the years to link the rail services through the city. yes this really is a retrograde step by Translink in my view, even looking at the latest TTs, they are all separate now, so the Bangor TT does not show the connecting Enterprise trains (or onward Portadown services) like it used to, it's a matter of fiddling around with three PDFs (none are printed thee days) and lining up the arrival and departure times! I guess a lot of folks these days will use the Translink online journey planner to join up services, but I'm old fashioned and like to study a proper timetable 1 Quote
jhb171achill Posted October 8 Posted October 8 38 minutes ago, Markleman said: It doesn't need an inquiry into how to do this right. Somewhere there must be a file on how a more complex operation was carried out in 1995 when GVSt was re-opened. Or how the Cross Harbour Link was opened in 1994. Or (maybe a dusty file now) the Central Line was re-opened in 1976. All they had to do was learn from the experiences of previous projects. From what I recall all of those major changes were well planned and had very few of the shambolic moments that this mess has. Those projects were organised by a proper railway management team who knew about railways. Some of those people are still around (some even on this site). Each of those developments was a step towards running trains though the City Centre and providing cross town options for the travelling public. Like every S-Bahn, Crossrail or RER system you can think of. This latest mess interrupts all that progress made over the years to link the rail services through the city. Can you imagine all DART and outer suburban trains terminating at Connolly and everybody having to change? Precisely the very first thing I thought when I learned of what the overall final plan was to be for this place! Quote
airfixfan Posted October 8 Posted October 8 Or what the final.bill will be? At present piling work going on the station approach! Quote
jhb171achill Posted October 8 Posted October 8 21 minutes ago, airfixfan said: Or what the final.bill will be? At present piling work going on the station approach! I believe it will be piles of money. 1 Quote
airfixfan Posted October 8 Posted October 8 Part of the station wall cladding fell.onto the track and platforms a few weeks ago over a weekend! 2 Quote
Colin_McLeod Posted October 9 Posted October 9 19 hours ago, Markleman said: Those projects were organised by a proper railway management team who knew about railways. Some of those people are still around (some even on this site). Jim, they don't do things like they used to in my day lol By the way, Belfast Central Railway was not without its problems such as the gas main sub project that 'discovered' a live culvert resulting in the railway becoming a river in the Botanic cutting, nor the vandalism of the signalling cables on the first day of operation of trains from the Great Northern line, but these problems were overcome. 1 Quote
Broithe Posted October 11 Posted October 11 I've just had this email from IÉ. Timetable changes from Monday 14th October Iarnród Éireann recognises the enormous disruption to our customers’ daily lives which have resulted from timetable changes since 26th August. We deeply regret the upset that this has caused and acknowledge how critical the punctuality and reliability of our services are to the daily lives of our commuting customers. In accommodating increased services on the Dublin to Belfast route, and managing overall capacity in the city centre area, the changes had a disproportionate negative impact on commuting punctuality and overall journey times, for which we are sorry. From Monday October 14th, morning Connolly route services will revert to the pre-26th August service patterns. This will rebalance the timetable, improve punctuality and end to end journey times for commuters, while accommodating improved frequency on a number of Intercity routes, including the Dublin to Belfast route. The most significant changes from Monday will be: Trains which previously terminated at Pearse, Grand Canal Dock and Bray will resume operation to/from these stations, reducing the need for interchanges in the morning peak at Connolly. Revised running times on a number of Belfast services, including changes to times on the 06:00hrs and 07:00hrs Belfast to Dublin services, arriving to Dublin at 08:23hrs and 09:20hrs respectively. As well as improving punctuality for Commuter services, this will enable a key gap in the Northern Commuter morning service to be reduced: Current departure times from Drogheda (with Donabate times for reference) are: 06:58hrs (07:32hrs), 07:09hrs (07:44hrs), 07:41hrs (08:16hrs) New departure times during the same time window from Drogheda (Donabate) from Monday 14th October will be: 06:55hrs (07:30hrs), 07:05hrs (07:39hrs), 07:19hrs (07:55hrs), 07:36hrs (08:13hrs) Some evening services which currently commence from Pearse/Grand Canal Dock will commence from Bray / Dun Laoghaire. There will be some minor changes to departure times to a number of DART, Northern, Maynooth and Phoenix Park Tunnel commuter trains, and one Dublin to Rosslare train to facilitate the above. Increased services on the Galway, Waterford and Belfast lines implemented on 26th August will be maintained. Full details of changes will be available for customers at www.irishrail.ie and the Iarnród Éireann app. The changes follow engagement with the National Transport Authority and our colleagues in Translink. 1 Quote
Patrick Davey Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 (edited) Managed to get on the first train into Grand Central this morning, 09:05 from Finaghy arriving at 09:15 First impressions are - it’s superb, very spacious, and modern, and definitely much needed. Some photos below, will post videos shortly. Edited October 13 by Patrick Davey 14 Quote
Tractionman Posted October 13 Posted October 13 Thanks for the pics, looks impressive especially with the line up of stock across the different platforms, nice to see the Enterprise there too! 3 Quote
Branchline121 Posted October 13 Posted October 13 The BBC article about the opening is here if anyone is interested. There’s a short bit about the late Noel Playfair’s son too. Hopefully the Lisburn-Antrim line reopens soon enough so the station can be filled up a bit, but overall it’s good to see it open. 4 Quote
Tullygrainey Posted October 13 Posted October 13 6 hours ago, Patrick Davey said: Managed to get on the first train into Grand Central this morning, 09:05 from Finaghy arriving at 09:15 First impressions are - it’s superb, very spacious, and modern, and definitely much needed. Some photos below, will post videos shortly. Nice one Patrick. You did well to get onto the first train. Thanks for the pics of the occasion. Some of us trailed in a bit later 8 Quote
Patrick Davey Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 Proof that I was actually there this morning IMG_8359.MOV 6 Quote
DSERetc Posted October 13 Posted October 13 The first scheduled train departure from Belfast Grand Central Station was the 08.05 Enterprise service to Dublin. It departed from Platform 5. The consist was driving trailer 9004, first class 9102, catering vehicle 9403, standard class 9215, 9203, 9201, 9206, generating van 9604 and locomotive 206. The driver was Derek Weir. The train Manager, (conductor) (guard) was David Stewart. The first scheduled train to arrive at BGCS was the 08.30 Portadown to Belfast which also arrived at platform 5. CAF 4012. There is no proof that I was there! 1 Quote
jhb171achill Posted October 13 Posted October 13 8 hours ago, DERAILED said: Nice graffiti at the start of the video!! Utterly ghastly. Should be removed and arrangements made to make access by these brain-dead morons impossible. Great to see the place finally open, though. I plan to make a flying visit some day soon. A few familiar faces on the platform - at least three I know.... 3 Quote
Patrick Davey Posted October 13 Author Posted October 13 24 minutes ago, DSERetc said: The first scheduled train departure from Belfast Grand Central Station was the 08.05 Enterprise service to Dublin. It departed from Platform 5. The consist was driving trailer 9004, first class 9102, catering vehicle 9403, standard class 9215, 9203, 9201, 9206, generating van 9604 and locomotive 206. The driver was Derek Weir. The train Manager, (conductor) (guard) was David Stewart. The first scheduled train to arrive at BGCS was the 08.30 Portadown to Belfast which also arrived at platform 5. CAF 4012. There is no proof that I was there! Perhaps I can verify…….. 1 Quote
DSERetc Posted October 14 Posted October 14 16 hours ago, DSERetc said: The first scheduled train departure from Belfast Grand Central Station was the 08.05 Enterprise service to Dublin. It departed from Platform 5. The consist was driving trailer 9004, first class 9102, catering vehicle 9403, standard class 9215, 9203, 9201, 9206, generating van 9604 and locomotive 206. The driver was Derek Weir. The train Manager, (conductor) (guard) was David Stewart. The first scheduled train to arrive at BGCS was the 08.30 Portadown to Belfast 16 hours ago, DSERetc said: The first scheduled train departure from Belfast Grand Central Station was the 08.05 Enterprise service to Dublin. It departed from Platform 5. The consist was driving trailer 9004, first class 9102, catering vehicle 9403, standard class 9215, 9203, 9201, 9206, generating van 9604 and locomotive 206. The driver was Derek Weir. The train Manager, (conductor) (guard) was David Stewart. The first scheduled train to arrive at BGCS was the 08.30 Portadown to Belfast which arrived at platform 7. CAF 4012. There is no proof that I was there! 4012. 16 hours ago, DSERetc said: The first scheduled train departure from Belfast Grand Central Station was the 08.05 Enterprise service to Dublin. It departed from Platform 5. The consist was driving trailer 9004, first class 9102, catering vehicle 9403, standard class 9215, 9203, 9201, 9206, generating van 9604 and locomotive 206. The driver was Derek Weir. The train Manager, (conductor) (guard) was David Stewart. The first scheduled train to arrive at BGCS was the 08.30 Portadown to Belfast The train arrived at platform 7. CAF 4012. There is no proof that I was there! There is no proof that I was there! Quote
jhb171achill Posted October 14 Posted October 14 Does anyone have an up-to-date list of which services are De Deitrichs, which are ICRs, and which are NIR railcars? Presumably none are 29s? 1 Quote
Old Blarney Posted October 14 Posted October 14 (edited) On 13/10/2024 at 8:25 PM, jhb171achill said: Great to see the place finally open, though. I plan to make a flying visit some day soon. A few familiar faces on the platform - at least three I know.... "I plan to make a flying visit some day soon." Now then, Mr Beaumont. If my aged memory servers me correctly, and at my advanced years, there has to be doubt about my aged recollections! Your turn of phrase - "I plan to make a flying visit some day soon." . Is this not the reason for the introduction of - The Enterprise? The Non Stop, Customs Examination at Termini, - Enterprise - was to thwart the commencement of Aer Lingus direct flights between - Dublin - Belfast - Dublin. Wishing you happy travelling. White. Edited October 14 by Old Blarney 3 Quote
jhb171achill Posted October 14 Posted October 14 55 minutes ago, Old Blarney said: "I plan to make a flying visit some day soon." Now then, Mr Beaumont. If my aged memory servers me correctly, and at my advanced years, there has to be doubt about my aged recollections! Your turn of phrase - "I plan to make a flying visit some day soon." . Is this not the reason for the introduction of - The Enterprise? The Non Stop, Customs Examination at Termini, - Enterprise - was to thwart the commencement of Aer Lingus direct flights between - Dublin - Belfast - Dublin. Wishing you happy travelling. White. Tis this very week I'm considering, David! But as always, writing matters, and the continued indoctrination of a 2 1/2 year old grandson into the ways of things on rails, occupy much time these days, as do the walking habits of the two four-legged family members - not as easy as that sounds, as one is geriatric and the other adolescent......! But; hopefully; I will darken the doors of the station at Grosvenor Road Goods Yard as soon as convenient, having previously travelled to Belfast (Great Victoria Street), then Maysfields Cattle Sidings (1976-2024)...... and of course, as always, you're spot on with your recollections! Hope you are keeping well. Quote
Old Blarney Posted October 15 Posted October 15 Ah the tasks for the day. Might your checklist be as follows - Pen, Reins, Leads! Choosing leads; could this be a walk for the four legged team? Reins, perhaps a walk with the apple of my eye? Pen to hand, putting thought and facts onto paper? Silly me, we use keyboard devices nowadays. What a train of thought That's it. A train. A train journey! A wee trip to Belfast. That what I shall do, i'll spend a day remembering the past, viewing the present, contemplating what would have remained had it not been for the railway closures of 1957 and 1965. Have an enjoyable journey, hopefully one without incident. 1 1 Quote
Markleman Posted October 19 Posted October 19 This appeared on the BBC website section "Your Questions Answered" about the new station. It is a good question which gets a lame response. Basically "we are doing this because it suits us". ========================================================================= Are through services from Bangor-Portadown ever going to resume or will I always have to change at Grand Central? Before services moved from Great Victoria Street to Grand Central, many services ran the whole way from Portadown to Bangor, pulling in and out of Great Victoria Street on their way. Now services from Portadown and Bangor both terminate at Grand Central, meaning passengers have to change trains. Translink said: “Belfast Grand Central Station has been designed to be a terminus station offering increased connectivity and integration with the wider public transport network for connections across Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland and beyond. “The new rail timetable is designed to bring all rail lines into the new station and back out again on the same corridor which increases reliability and efficiency of services operating on all rail corridors across the network.” So, in short, there are no plans to return to operating through services. ======================================================================== Essentially this says "make the best of it". Now it is official - The Holy Grail of cross city operation (as in operation everywhere else in the world) does not apply to Translink, who know better. 4 1 Quote
jhb171achill Posted October 19 Posted October 19 4 hours ago, Markleman said: This appeared on the BBC website section "Your Questions Answered" about the new station. It is a good question which gets a lame response. Basically "we are doing this because it suits us". ========================================================================= Are through services from Bangor-Portadown ever going to resume or will I always have to change at Grand Central? Before services moved from Great Victoria Street to Grand Central, many services ran the whole way from Portadown to Bangor, pulling in and out of Great Victoria Street on their way. Now services from Portadown and Bangor both terminate at Grand Central, meaning passengers have to change trains. Translink said: “Belfast Grand Central Station has been designed to be a terminus station offering increased connectivity and integration with the wider public transport network for connections across Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland and beyond. “The new rail timetable is designed to bring all rail lines into the new station and back out again on the same corridor which increases reliability and efficiency of services operating on all rail corridors across the network.” So, in short, there are no plans to return to operating through services. ======================================================================== Essentially this says "make the best of it". Now it is official - The Holy Grail of cross city operation (as in operation everywhere else in the world) does not apply to Translink, who know better. 100% right. No matter what way they want to dress this up, it’s a hugely backward step. For years I commuted from Lisburn to Central, and later Botanic; occasionally Bangor. It would have been much more awkward now. Imagine if overnight ALL Greystones & Bray Darts stopped dead at Connolly, and so did all Drogheda, Malahide & Howth trains. I don’t buy any of the weak arguments advanced by the Ulster Translink Authority as to the impossibility of through services - at least in rush hour. In the late 1940s, jhbSenior was asked to conduct an engineering feasibility study into the construction of the direct curve from the Central line into GVS. He concluded that while tight, it was possible. Nothing came of it, as the powers-that-were considered it to be IMpossible. Thirty years later they did it. When I made my first visit back to GC last week, since about 1960 when I recall walking about weed-green sidings; I had a look at the track layout. It IS at least theoretically possible to have a through service. 1 Quote
Colin_McLeod Posted October 20 Posted October 20 18 hours ago, jhb171achill said: Nothing came of it, as the powers-that-were considered it to be IMpossible. Thirty years later they did it. I predict that he same will happen with through trains; hopefully a lot quicker this time. I have a theory that to make things as flexible as they could be would have required investment in diamond crossings and maybe a couple of single and double slips to get all pointwork to fit in the space available. That extra cost could have been detrimental to the case for funding so it was all laid with simple turnouts. Now that the station is built and operating, the case for upgrading to through running could be put forward. Meanwhile, the track layout does NOT prevent through running. It is possible and perhaps a choice has to be made between 'frequency of journey' and the 'time the journey takes'. 2 Quote
jhb171achill Posted October 20 Posted October 20 7 hours ago, Colin_McLeod said: I predict that he same will happen with through trains; hopefully a lot quicker this time. I have a theory that to make things as flexible as they could be would have required investment in diamond crossings and maybe a couple of single and double slips to get all pointwork to fit in the space available. That extra cost could have been detrimental to the case for funding so it was all laid with simple turnouts. Now that the station is built and operating, the case for upgrading to through running could be put forward. Meanwhile, the track layout does NOT prevent through running. It is possible and perhaps a choice has to be made between 'frequency of journey' and the 'time the journey takes'. Exactly, 100%. 1 Quote
airfixfan Posted October 21 Posted October 21 With good use of some platforms Lusburn to Bangor serviced could be easily introduced. Queens students and City Hospital users not amused either 2 Quote
leslie10646 Posted October 22 Posted October 22 (edited) Paid a visit today from Bangor - the service is slower than steam days - nothing over 48 to Holywood! I'm glad i didn't try the journey in reverse: Find the station ...... The platform indicators were very good! This was at 1515 hours this afternoon. But, nil fesperandum, they had been replaced by humans telling you what train went where: I counted over ten in sight (ran out of fingers, you see .... Is this NIR solving the unemployment problems? Edited October 22 by leslie10646 4 Quote
K801 Posted October 22 Posted October 22 6 minutes ago, leslie10646 said: For there were these guys too Dozens of 'em. Give it 4 weeks than there will be nobody to help anybody 2 Quote
leslie10646 Posted October 22 Posted October 22 Trying to be positive, I presume that the building site will eventually disappear and that they plan to demolish the unsightly block on the right in the first picture - then you can see the frontage? AND I enjoyed an "Express" run back to Bangor with a steady 70mph through Helen's Bay - which you wouldn't have done in steam days! BUT, it's a quarter of a mile further out from the City Centre and from this favoured watering hole, which I see is still where I left it! As for the loss of through services Bangor to Portadown - yes I know that only a modest number of folk would want that - one connection I looked up offered journeys of 1hr 18 minutes and 1 hour 41 minutes .... All part of the improvements? 2 2 Quote
GNRi Milepost 105 Posted October 22 Posted October 22 (edited) I believe that the unsightly building that Leslie is hoping will be demolished is to stay. It's owned by Openreach (formerly a British Telecom exchange) and is still shown in the complete projected development plans. The smaller grey clad building on the left hand side of the pedestrian entrance across Durham Street is the temporary project office and will be removed eventually. Edited October 22 by GNRi Milepost 105 Additional information Quote
jhb171achill Posted October 22 Posted October 22 In all reality, bar the "Crown", there's not a single thing to be seen in any of those pictures which appears to have any visual or architectural merit of any sort..... 1 Quote
airfixfan Posted October 22 Posted October 22 One day last week counted 25 Translink staffing rail station plus 29 on duty in bus station Gents is still.out of order in bus station. Progress! Quote
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