"Voiding the Warranty" - Mol's experiments in 21mm gauge

[Mol_PMB]

Well, some success and some failure.
 

I’ve completed the point operating rods, and the microswitches for the frog polarity. 

I’ve had E410 running around the layout for a bit, initially with no problems at all. 

Then it got something jammed in a set of points, and it stopped with a graunch. I think one of the rail sweeps was a bit low and stuck in a checkrail flangeway.

Now E410 doesn’t move and makes unpleasant noises. I think something has come adrift in the gearbox, or possibly a gear has stripped some of its teeth. I need to take it apart and see what’s wrong. So testing will have to go on hold for a while, as this is my only 21mm gauge loco at present. 

Frustrating. 

[Tullygrainey]

Frustrating is right! Hope the damage isn't too severe.

[Mol_PMB]

17 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

Frustrating is right! Hope the damage isn't too severe.

The worm had moved along the motor shaft. I think I was relying on a press fit rather than any glue. 
I have got the loco running again though it doesn’t seem quite as smooth - possibly the worm wheel is slightly damaged.
One of the hornblocks also seems to have stiffened up in the horns, and needs a fettle. 

Anyway, back on the layout I am having some of those undesired uncoupling events. I picked a different set of wagons to those I used previously and some are more sensitive than others. Partly due to how free-running they are, but perhaps also influenced by whether they have NEM pockets or Kadee draft boxes. More experiments needed! 
I may try adjusting the magnet positions. 
 

But I think all that is a job for the tail end of the coming week. I’ve got a few busy days at work coming up.  

[Mol_PMB]

Hopefully my ebay ‘bargain’ loco kit (the 650 class ex-MGWR 2-4-0) will also turn up this week. I need to see which variants can be built from the kit I’ve bought. 

Having read through many of @Mayner ‘s threads on the development and building of the kit, I get the impression that the kit evolved and they may not all have offered the same variant options.

The good thing is that I can choose between at least three late survivors that worked railtours (653, 654 and 655) which had different variants of cab spectacles, firebox, smokebox, dome and indeed a host of other details. 

I think 654 was one of the locos painted black (is there a list of those, @jhb171achill ?) but they all seem to have ended their lives in brown filth. Matching the weathering on 655’s tender would be fun!

Here’s 654 which has surely been freshly repainted for its railtour duty:

A comparison with a similar view of J15 193 also on railtour duty. This one is grey, but 654 looks truly black:

(pics from Ernie - thanks)

[jhb171achill]

2 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Hopefully my ebay ‘bargain’ loco kit (the 650 class ex-MGWR 2-4-0) will also turn up this week. I need to see which variants can be built from the kit I’ve bought. 

Having read through many of @Mayner ‘s threads on the development and building of the kit, I get the impression that the kit evolved and they may not all have offered the same variant options.

The good thing is that I can choose between at least three late survivors that worked railtours (653, 654 and 655) which had different variants of cab spectacles, firebox, smokebox, dome and indeed a host of other details. 

I think 654 was one of the locos painted black (is there a list of those, @jhb171achill ?) but they all seem to have ended their lives in brown filth. Matching the weathering on 655’s tender would be fun!

Here’s 654 which has surely been freshly repainted for its railtour duty:

A comparison with a similar view of J15 193 also on railtour duty. This one is grey, but 654 looks truly black:

(pics from Ernie - thanks)

193 and an ex-MGWR loco were the last two steam locos ever to be painted, as late as 1961 or 2.

However, uniquely, they were given black smokeboxes and chimneys; these were grey previously.

Most of the few steam locos that saw a paintbrush after about 1954 were painted black. Among these were at least one 400 (normally green by then) and three of the MGWR 2.4.0s as above, possibly 4 or 5. 

654 & 655 were two of them. I’m unsure of the others.

One Bandon tank (464) was black at the end. Another 1 or 2 were green. The rest remained grey.

Ex MGWR “E” no. 560, which ended its days shunting in Tralee looks black in photos, but it seems to be heavily oily-ragged grey, as for many years I had one of its number plates and when squeaky-cleaned it was grey.

 

[Tullygrainey]

5 hours ago, Horsetan said:

Maybe having fixed magnet positions isn't the solution. How about a magnet mounted on a handheld spade-type device that you slip under the couplings only when you need it?

Kadee actually include this Heath Robinson contrivance in the instruction sheet for their under track magnets

 

[Mol_PMB]

16 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

193 and an ex-MGWR loco were the last two steam locos ever to be painted, as late as 1961 or 2.

However, uniquely, they were given black smokeboxes and chimneys; these were grey previously.

Most of the few steam locos that saw a paintbrush after about 1954 were painted black. Among these were at least one 400 (normally green by then) and three of the MGWR 2.4.0s as above, possibly 4 or 5. 

654 & 655 were two of them. I’m unsure of the others.

One Bandon tank (464) was black at the end. Another 1 or 2 were green. The rest remained grey.

Ex MGWR “E” no. 560, which ended its days shunting in Tralee looks black in photos, but it seems to be heavily oily-ragged grey, as for many years I had one of its number plates and when squeaky-cleaned it was grey.

 

Ah, that’s brilliant, many thanks for the info. I hadn’t realised that black had been the ‘standard’ for a while, though in a time when few steam locos were being painted. 
I thought 655 looked quite black too, but as you say it’s often hard to tell. Good to know that it was actually black. 

560 is another loco I plan to model and when it hauled a railtour to Fenit, the better-lit photos show that it was indeed a cleaned dark grey. 

[jhb171achill]

5 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Ah, that’s brilliant, many thanks for the info. I hadn’t realised that black had been the ‘standard’ for a while, though in a time when few steam locos were being painted. 
I thought 655 looked quite black too, but as you say it’s often hard to tell. Good to know that it was actually black. 

560 is another loco I plan to model and when it hauled a railtour to Fenit, the better-lit photos show that it was indeed a cleaned dark grey. 

Same with the famous 1961 West Cork tour with a spotless “Bandon Tank” No. 464. 

Convential wisdom (and my opinion for a long time) was that it was black.

However, I’ve seen two photos of it that day and shortly after, which certainly appear to show it as dark grey. So I’m unsure; I would certainly not take it as definite that it was repainted in black, but it could have been.

it must be remembered that cleaning was done with oily rags. Dust and dirt stick to oil, so polishing if a very dark grey could very easily look black, especially in the colour emulsions used in camera films almost seventy years ago. 
 

 

[Westcorkrailway]

I will always paint 464 Satin Black as that’s how it looked, and Infairness it fooled pretty much everybody into believing it was black that day. So eyewitness accounts and photos would say so

However Upton closer inspection, it probobly was Grey underneath all that. Problem is though. Is it more accurate to paint it the colour it was underneath the dirt or the livery it actually presented itself in. Usually I’m not a weathering guy but in the case of Late CIE steam is it just as inaccurate to turn these locos out in Grey as is black? 
 

some IRRS views. The 17/03/1961. Under the spring sun from some angles, you can see grey 
 

https://flic.kr/p/2psQWnf

https://flic.kr/p/2psSoCg

https://flic.kr/p/2psSoBK

464 was also involved in another IRRS special later that year. Again the extreme sun reveals an interesting shade
 

https://flic.kr/p/2psSoBp

 

It’s seen here about 1962. Boiler looks more grey! 

It sat around in inchicore for about 3 years post withdrawal. By which stage the dirt seems to have been removed by the elements . 463 which was grey and has weathered to the same colour proved the theory. 

 

 

However. Im still looking for the holy grail. As at least 1, possibly 2 Bandon tanks were painted Green in Dublin. I’ve yet to see a photo that shows this livery aside from this very weathered look at 467 at Albert quay in the 1950s

[Horsetan]

All this paint discussion reminds me of:

 

[jhb171achill]

3 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I will always paint 464 Satin Black as that’s how it looked, and Infairness it fooled pretty much everybody into believing it was black that day. So eyewitness accounts and photos would say so

However Upton closer inspection, it probobly was Grey underneath all that. Problem is though. Is it more accurate to paint it the colour it was underneath the dirt or the livery it actually presented itself in. Usually I’m not a weathering guy but in the case of Late CIE steam is it just as inaccurate to turn these locos out in Grey as is black? 
 

some IRRS views. The 17/03/1961. Under the spring sun from some angles, you can see grey 
 

https://flic.kr/p/2psQWnf

https://flic.kr/p/2psSoCg

https://flic.kr/p/2psSoBK

464 was also involved in another IRRS special later that year. Again the extreme sun reveals an interesting shade
 

https://flic.kr/p/2psSoBp

 

It’s seen here about 1962. Boiler looks more grey! 

It sat around in inchicore for about 3 years post withdrawal. By which stage the dirt seems to have been removed by the elements . 463 which was grey and has weathered to the same colour proved the theory. 

 

 

However. Im still looking for the holy grail. As at least 1, possibly 2 Bandon tanks were painted Green in Dublin. I’ve yet to see a photo that shows this livery aside from this very weathered look at 467 at Albert quay in the 1950s

Those photos, including one I haven’t seen before, certainly strengthen the case for it being grey, quite strongly.

In terms of accuracy, a clean engine in later days of steam was a rarity. I have even seen pictures of what I know to have been green engines, that are so dirty they could be pink with yellow and white spots underneath, and nobody would be any the wiser.

i have several grey locos 1 x SSM J15, 3 x 00 Works J15s, and very nice JM Design Midland 2.4.0.

When new, they looked a bit on the light side, but they were definitely not, as the paint on them was accurately colour-matched with the only surviving sample of GSR / CIE grey that I’m aware of.

i know that the manufacturers of the above went to painstaking lengths to replicate the original correctly.

Once I had them weathered all changed; they look like a dirty black. I think even a satin finish of black really doesn’t look right unless it’s a loco we know was black - and there really weren’t that many of them.

So I would go for grey, and weather it.

The weathering on steam engines wasn’t just an accumulation of smoke, soot, brake dust and general wear and tear as found on other rolling stock. Engines were cleaned with oily rags which could be quite dirty, and had the effect of appearing to darken the grey paint.

If anyone’s interested I have details of the RAL number somewhere, but it’s a very dark grey, not a light wagon-shade; significantly darker than 071s carry now.

Occasional exceptions; senior told me of one of his customary wanderings around Inchicore Works in his teens (mid 1930s) when he saw two newly painted engines ready to back into traffic. One was standard dark grey all over, but the other was much lighter, more like a wagon grey, he said. At first he thought it was undercoat but it wasn’t. It was a J15. He said he never saw or heard of any other engine like that - and he saw the lot!

 

 

[Flying Snail]

16 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

If anyone’s interested I have details of the RAL number somewhere, but it’s a very dark grey, not a light wagon-shade; significantly darker than 071s carry now.

Yes please - would be great to have the RAL for GSR / CIE locomotive grey 

[Westcorkrailway]

The picture of 193 freshly repainted in 1962 shows it best imo.

 

[Mol_PMB]

17 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

The picture of 193 freshly repainted in 1962 shows it best imo.

 

Here's another view of the same loco on the same occasion, but from a different angle. Comparing to the van behind, it's definitely grey rather than black, but if you saw the loco on its own it might be harder to tell.

I tend to model locos and rolling stock in working condition rather than pristine, and the weathering can have a big influence on the look of the colour. Partly because it overlays the colour of the paint underneath, but also it provides some contrasting shades adjacent to the main colour. Colours can look very different depending on the other colours they are next to. 

The issue of colour scaling and the influence of lighting is probably something for another thread!

 

 

[Horsetan]

20 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

....560 is another loco I plan to model and when it hauled a railtour to Fenit, the better-lit photos show that it was indeed a cleaned dark grey. 

Wasn't 560 (with the enlarged cab) the last J26 in service? I've only ever seen black and white photos of it, but each photo has minor detail changes.

Edited 21 hours ago by Horsetan

[Mol_PMB]

7 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

Wasn't 560 (with the enlarged cab) the last one in service? I've only ever seen black and white photos of it, but each photo has minor detail changes.

It hauled a railtour to Fenit in June 1961 and was well photographed then, for example this one from Ernie:

I have a feeling it wasn’t fully replaced on the Fenit branch until the G611 class arrived the following summer. Then it languished at Cork for a bit. 
 

[jhb171achill]

17 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

Wasn't 560 (with the enlarged cab) the last one in service? I've only ever seen black and white photos of it, but each photo has minor detail changes.

I believe so - right to the end of steam in early 1963, I think.

[Horsetan]

12 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

It hauled a railtour to Fenit in June 1961 and was well photographed then, for example this one from Ernie:

I have a feeling it wasn’t fully replaced on the Fenit branch until the G611 class arrived the following summer. Then it languished at Cork for a bit. 
 

That's now the only colour photo of 560 I have seen! By then the smokebox door handles had been replaced by a wheel and handle arrangement.

The curious thing about the smokebox wrapper is that it has visible rivets along the leading edge, but none at the rear where it joins the boiler barrel.

I have a b&w one of it on what seems to be the same railtour day, attached to a tin van, plus another later b&w of it out of service at Cork.

Coincidentally 560 is the one I'm building out of the old TMD kit.

Edited 21 hours ago by Horsetan

[jhb171achill]

21 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I think 654 was one of the locos painted black (is there a list of those, @jhb171achill ?) 

The late Bob Clements gave me quite a lot of info on this, along with some details of what was black. Most classes had no vlack examples but many did. He gave me a list of perhaps 15 or 20 locomotives which became black, but unfortunately I appear to have mislaid this over the years at some stage. If it ever turns up, I'll post the details here. This was his own list, not from any official source, so it is likely that unless this list turns up, there is no definitive list. 

What I HAVE found is his reference to later days, and this definitively settles it for the B4 "Bandon Tanks".

Clements wrote in the early 1970s that the last three painted were B4 No. 464; J15 No. 193, and (Midland) J18 No. 593. These were repainted GREY. Thus the apparent blck on 464 on that West Cork touir was not black at all; it was the dark grey, doubtless well polished with oily rags. Therefore, no Bandon tank was ever black; one green, rest grey.

WestCork, you mentioned the green Bandon tank(s). In the same note, Clements stated that 467 received green in 1947 and kept it, though it became very dirty. He does not mention any other enegine of this class in green. Three old 4.4.0s became green also; one each from classes D14, D12 & D4.

I will fish out the RAL for the grey paint later.

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

That's now the only colour photo of 560 I have seen! 

It’s nearly Panto season, so “Oh no it isn’t”…

I have collated lots of photo refs for this loco, including about a dozen colour ones. Mostly on the Fenit branch. 

[Horsetan]

4 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

....Clements wrote in the early 1970s that the last three painted were B4 No. 464; J15 No. 193, and (Midland) J18 No. 593. These were repainted GREY. Thus the apparent blck on 464 on that West Cork touir was not black at all; it was the dark grey, doubtless well polished with oily rags. Therefore, no Bandon tank was ever black; one green, rest grey...

To misquote Father Ted:

"These engines look black, but when I looked closely, they were actually very very very very very very VERY dark grey...."

[Mol_PMB]

13 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

To misquote Father Ted:

"These engines look black, but when I looked closely, they were actually very very very very very very VERY dark grey...."

Is this one bigger? Or just closer?

 

[jhb171achill]

40 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Is this one bigger? Or just closer?

 

Dirty grey it seems, yes!

[Mol_PMB]

@Horsetan, would you like me to send you a list of links/refs to photos of 560? It'll take me a little while to sort it out - I have them all but they're scattered in different places. Would be interested to hear of how you get on with the kit. I have an SSM one to build too, also 21mm gauge, and also as 560.

Continuing with Midland kettle matters, Evri left my parcel on the front doorstep in full view of the road at lunchtime. Fortunately it was still there when I got home - perhaps there were no fences in Manchester that wanted an etched kit of an obscure Irish steam loco?

An initial review of the contents and the instructions has identified that this version of the kit doesn't do the Belpaire 'Y' boiler version - I think John produced a different variant of the kit for this, but I wasn't sure which version I'd bought. That limits me to the round-top firebox options (unless I'm going to make major changes) but that's fine - 2 of the 3 preferred prototypes I had identified are round-top. Of the late survivors, my options are now 654 or 655. I've found around 30 photos of each in their final condition, including many in colour. They were both railtour celebrities.

They were not identical and either would require some minor modifications to the kit - 655 would need the cab front changing while 654 would need modifications to the tender side sheets. I also need to review the dome and chimney heights to see how the model castings compare to those fitted to the two locos. All this feels possible, and although an MGWR 2-4-0 doesn't really fit my layout theme they are very nice locos and I could imagine a filthy one wheezing around the sidings at Quartertown Mill with a few trucks, as well as turning up with a railtour.

A superbly detailed shot of 655 from the NLI collection on Flickr:

Zooming out a bit and going back a couple of years, here's a more complete view of 655, from Ernie:

655 had previously carried a Belpaire boiler and retained the tall thin spectacles from that period, whereas 654 had much squarer spectacles. 655 had a squat dome whereas 654's was taller than both the chimney and the cab, giving it a 'camel' appearance.

654 for comparison, Ernie photo:

These photos also show the difference in the shape of the platework at the upper front of the tender between the two locos. Another area to modify the kit.

On both locos, note the plate sticking up behind the volute springs for the leading wheelset - this was one of the mounts for the original leaf springs. Some locos retained these after the springs had been replaced. A detail I shall add.

Perhaps this will be a Christmas project?

[Galteemore]

That’s a great close up. For brass workers like me, it’s also a reassuring proof that platework on the real thing could also be shonky. Check out that front splasher on 655, and as for the gap in the boiler cladding….

[Mol_PMB]

1 hour ago, Galteemore said:

That’s a great close up. For brass workers like me, it’s also a reassuring proof that platework on the real thing could also be shonky. Check out that front splasher on 655, and as for the gap in the boiler cladding….

Oh yes, 655 looked a bit of a wreck at the end. Don’t worry if you’ve made a hash of rolling the boiler… 

But one of the others was much worse, with the boiler cladding hanging off and the safety valve bonnet not even remotely fitting. I’ll find the pics tomorrow - with the loco still in steam and in use. 

[Horsetan]

4 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Is this one bigger? Or just closer?

 

 

 

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

@Horsetan, would you like me to send you a list of links/refs to photos of 560? It'll take me a little while to sort it out - I have them all but they're scattered in different places....

That would be grand, thanks

[Mayner]

Getting complicated 

GSR/CIE loco grey.

Its likely Inchacore formulated its 'loco' grey to its own recipe in house during the 1920s as RAL (German) & BS (British) colour codes only began to emerge during the 1920s.

Although I recently (about 5 years ago!) had the grey custom mixed from samples provided by JHB, I personally believe Howes Railmatch 412 "Weathered Black" provides a more realistic effect on a model. I several of my locos assembled about 30 years ago (how time flys) are painted in "weathered black" applied by airbrush, those finished in a satin varnish appear 'almost black" well cared for locos/spruced up for railtours, those finished in matt black varnish as grey careworn locos almost on their last legs.

650 Class.

The kit was eventually produced in three versions to covering (a) late MGW-GSR-CIE with round topped boiler (b) GSR-CIE with Inchacore cab slotted valences with round topped boiler (c) GSR-CIE with Belpair Boiler.

Although the initail version could be assembled in MGW-GSR or CIE condition, I introduced version (b) to similify assembly for modelers wanting to assemble the loco in late GSR-CIE condition by eliminating the tedious job of cutting out the half etched slots in the valences.

Interestingly both versions sold reassonably well and in equal numbers! I produced the X Belpair boiler version of the class in response to a customer comission, interestingly the Belpair boiler locos did not sell as well as the round topped versions.

While I completed a OO gauge MGW model of the loco for my self, 5 years on I still have to complete the assembly of a pair of 21mm gauge versions for myself both in GSR/CIE condition one Belpair one Roundtop firebox.

I guess one question is whether you will be tempted to follow De Selby's  (Alan Edgar) example and assemble your loco with working inside valve gear.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/175977-jm-design-650-class/#comment-5018653

Edited 15 hours ago by Mayner

[David Holman]

I agree with Father Ted. Black rarely looks right on any model, especially the smaller scales. It is too dense. 

 Steam locomotives never stayed pristine for long and in portraying a working model, need to be toned down to reflect this.

 

[Mol_PMB]

7 hours ago, Mayner said:

Getting complicated 

GSR/CIE loco grey.

Its likely Inchacore formulated its 'loco' grey to its own recipe in house during the 1920s as RAL (German) & BS (British) colour codes only began to emerge during the 1920s.

Although I recently (about 5 years ago!) had the grey custom mixed from samples provided by JHB, I personally believe Howes Railmatch 412 "Weathered Black" provides a more realistic effect on a model. I several of my locos assembled about 30 years ago (how time flys) are painted in "weathered black" applied by airbrush, those finished in a satin varnish appear 'almost black" well cared for locos/spruced up for railtours, those finished in matt black varnish as grey careworn locos almost on their last legs.

650 Class.

The kit was eventually produced in three versions to covering (a) late MGW-GSR-CIE with round topped boiler (b) GSR-CIE with Inchacore cab slotted valences with round topped boiler (c) GSR-CIE with Belpair Boiler.

Although the initail version could be assembled in MGW-GSR or CIE condition, I introduced version (b) to similify assembly for modelers wanting to assemble the loco in late GSR-CIE condition by eliminating the tedious job of cutting out the half etched slots in the valences.

Interestingly both versions sold reassonably well and in equal numbers! I produced the X Belpair boiler version of the class in response to a customer comission, interestingly the Belpair boiler locos did not sell as well as the round topped versions.

While I completed a OO gauge MGW model of the loco for my self, 5 years on I still have to complete the assembly of a pair of 21mm gauge versions for myself both in GSR/CIE condition one Belpair one Roundtop firebox.

I guess one question is whether you will be tempted to follow De Selby's  (Alan Edgar) example and assemble your loco with working inside valve gear.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/175977-jm-design-650-class/#comment-5018653

Many thanks for the clarification, John. It's version (b) of the kit I've acquired, which happily suits me quite well. A Belpaire kit would also have been fine.

Mine will be 21mm gauge but I think life is too short to tackle the working valve gear! It's an inspiration to see it done though.

I'm still working on sourcing wheels - I've found some driving wheels but the leading wheelset (and perhaps the tender wheelsets) may need to be secondhand off ebay. And then I need longer square-ended axles; I have some ideas how to do this but need to make a jig first.  

 

[Galteemore]

8 hours ago, Mayner said:

Getting complicated 

GSR/CIE loco grey.

Its likely Inchacore formulated its 'loco' grey to its own recipe in house during the 1920s as RAL (German) & BS (British) colour codes only began to emerge during the 1920s.

Although I recently (about 5 years ago!) had the grey custom mixed from samples provided by JHB, I personally believe Howes Railmatch 412 "Weathered Black" provides a more realistic effect on a model. I several of my locos assembled about 30 years ago (how time flys) are painted in "weathered black" applied by airbrush, those finished in a satin varnish appear 'almost black" well cared for locos/spruced up for railtours, those finished in matt black varnish as grey careworn locos almost on their last legs.

Agreed John. I used that weathered black on an F6 (now sold) I built a few years ago.

[Mol_PMB]

9 hours ago, Horsetan said:

That would be grand, thanks

I put this list together mainly of photos of 560 on the Fenit branch, and then I added some more photos of it elsewhere. It's surely not complete but there is a good selection of photos here and about half of them are in colour:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/72213853@N03/14896588730
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53467653382
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53468560926
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53468878174
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53468979775
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53498929093
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53499079334
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509201430
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509204144
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511776674
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53527642129
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54252114857
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54418652517
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419707054
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419902095
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419902890
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54419902915
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/48994726936
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/48994924552
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/49062872833
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/49729502773
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/49730367857
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/50273990822
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/50430679707
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/50522322148
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/52885061272
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/53112598486
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/54093269572
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5961274843
https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5961797016
IRRS journal 179p179
North Kerry Line p248
Rails Through North Kerry p108
WLWR book p66
Keith Pirt Colour Portfolio p44
 

The last book reference is a very useful colour shot of 560 on the turntable at Fenit, taken from the footbridge. It's well-lit, very clearly showing grey livery, and because it's from a high viewpoint it shows details of the cab roof and tank tops etc that are not visible in most photos. The whole book is full of wonderful photos - well worth getting.

[Rob R]

If you prefer to use rattle can paints then Volvo "Dark Grey"  is fairly well known for reproducing a weathered black.

Paul, I wouldn't worry too much about square ended axles (unless you are using Romfords).  If you can find a suitable set of Gibsons, or even Sharmans - second hand or from PPP - quartering is a doddle.

Just make sure that the frame and coupling rod centres are the same which you would have to do for the Romfords anyway.

Then just look through the wheels and line up the spokes and tweak as required. They don't have to be exactly 90 deg for  an electric loco as long as they are all the same.

[Westcorkrailway]

I used a rattle can recently for Leslie’s van and found the colour to be spot on for GSR grey to my eye, if a little glossy! 

15 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

It hauled a railtour to Fenit in June 1961 and was well photographed then, for example this one from Ernie:

I have a feeling it wasn’t fully replaced on the Fenit branch until the G611 class arrived the following summer. Then it languished at Cork for a bit. 
 

Cork loco 299 was supposed to work the branch. What a site that would have been

[Rob R]

Glossy is best for the lettering to stick then squirt it with some matt varnish after.