"Voiding the Warranty" - Mol's experiments in 21mm gauge

Mol_PMB · February 22

I have made good progress on the 6-wheelers today, having found both time and motivation.

I think they're looking the part, and they give me some rolling stock that not many other people have modelled.

There are still a few details to add, mostly associated with the gas and brake plumbing. Also a final clean-up. But they're nearly there.

I'll need to make a final decision on the livery for each of them too. Probably plain green with EdN lettering for both.

Sadly I have some other chores to do today so I don't think I'll have a chance to finish them for a few days.

jhb171achill · February 22

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I have made good progress on the 6-wheelers today, having found both time and motivation.

I think they're looking the part, and they give me some rolling stock that not many other people have modelled.

There are still a few details to add, mostly associated with the gas and brake plumbing. Also a final clean-up. But they're nearly there.

I'll need to make a final decision on the livery for each of them too. Probably plain green with EdN lettering for both.

Sadly I have some other chores to do today so I don't think I'll have a chance to finish them for a few days.

Those are EXQUISITE!! Livery details - usually the older darker green, and usually without lining. But with deparmental vehicles, there were so many variations that in detail many were one-offs livery-wise. Ends and roofs black in the 1950s and early 60s, but red ends later on. This tended to dafe to look orange or salmony-pink, but initial paining was red. Anything repainted after the early 60s was plain wagon grey sides and ends, black chassis; dunno about roofs (always too tatty to be sure) but they were probably initially painted black as normal - if at all!

Logos - same again. Both in green, or grey, some had logs and some didn't. In green & snail days, some had a normal sized painted snail, others had a miniature one..... Some had elaborate essays writted on them like "PERMANENT WAY DEPARTMENT - PLEASE RETURN TO BALLYGOBACKWARDS - MAX SPEED 30 MPH".... and some had nothing at all.

Running numbers were in the A series, e.g. 465A, 366A, 298A, etc etc.

Some retained full footboards, some had none any more, and some had partly retained footboards / footsteps.

Mol_PMB · February 22

Many thanks @jhb171achill!

I think the full brake will be darker green without lining, as you suggest.

The sleeping cars had many subtle variations as you say. I've based mine on 238A, partly because it was based at Mallow (conveniently close to my Quartertown Mill layout), and partly because there are several good photos of it over the years (and from both sides - they were different).

The IRRS has a photo of it newly converted at Inchicore, some time between 1947 (when it was withdrawn as a passenger coach) and 1950, freshly painted in dark green complete will a full lining job:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507984227/

Ernie has a couple of photos of it at Mallow in May 1955, still bearing the same livery but a bit faded and weathered by now:

By August 1956, still at Mallow, it had been repainted with a plain coat of what seems to be a lighter green (compare to the carriage on the left) but the layout of the lettering remained identical:

And it was still at Mallow in September 1969 in the same paint job but looking a bit the worse for wear, in this IRRS colour photo which is a lightish green:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511470303/

Since I'm aiming at the early 1960s I think I need the plainer, lighter green livery. I have transfers for the lettering in EdN, which I hope is correct - no doubt someone will tell me these were an exception to the rule and should have white lettering!

Links to many more photos of this species here:

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/18453-cie-sleeping-cars

Edited February 22 by Mol_PMB

exciecoachbuilder · February 22

Wow, they look fantastic. Well done my friend..

jhb171achill · February 22

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Since I'm aiming at the early 1960s I think I need the plainer, lighter green livery. I have transfers for the lettering in EdN, which I hope is correct - no doubt someone will tell me these were an exception to the rule and should have white lettering!

Yes, it is indeed correct!

Somewhere, probably late 60s, I saw a bocketty-looking old departmental vehicle somewhere with what looked like WHITE lettering. Upon investigation, which involved trespass on operating railway tracks in view of indifferent staff, without dayglo shoes, trousers, knickers, hat or jacket; without safety briefing, training or knowledge beyond "get off track if train appears", I inspected said line and lettering - it was just badly faded eau-de-nil paint. If you lifted a bit of ballast and scratched it, the pale green showed up.

Today, for such a stunt, I'd be clapped in irons, taken away in a black maria and thrown into a cell...... and they'd close the railway for two months and hire a few consultats to determine how it happened..... and the online conspiracy theorists would dream up 147 fact-free explanations.

Edited February 22 by jhb171achill

Mayner · February 23

5 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Somewhere, probably late 60s, I saw a bocketty-looking old departmental vehicle somewhere with what looked like WHITE lettering. Upon investigation, which involved trespass on operating railway tracks in view of indifferent staff, without dayglo shoes, trousers, knickers, hat or jacket; without safety briefing, training or knowledge beyond "get off track if train appears",

Take heart JHB thses days there is no point in trespassing as there is nothing interesting to see and its too dangerous anyway as generally trains are a lot more frequent than the good/old bad days and no staff to tell you 'to get off the track" if a train appears

As a retired H&S professional company H&S policies and procedures are there to protect the organisation and partyicularly its top brass in case a custormer, worker or visitor is injured or killed ,no legal duties as such to trespassers but makes bad publicity and hard on all those involved (railstaff, falilies and emergency services)

Back in the day (late 80s) I remember the signal man at Liffey Junction frantically yelling at trespassser taking a short cut from Dublin Industrial Estate to Cabra West to get off the canal bridge/railway track, the up afternoon Sligo was approaching under clear signals. The young people crossing the track like the trespassers killed at Leixlip (during Maynooth line doubling) and CIE/IE could not be bothered to securely fence the line at a spot where trespassing was a known problem.

A lot of policies around PPE are driven by companies applying blanket rules to maintain discipline/control (worker/visitor behavior) regardless of whether its necessary (from a H&S or legal perspective or not). This can lead to a 'facade of safety" where everyone appears to wear the appropriate PPE (whether its needed or not!) and tick the boxes but not carry out the actual safety checks which can sometimes have disasterous results.

Colonel · February 23

Modern stock may well be so much safer now, but the six wheeler have so much charm - both as the prototype and the models themselves. Likewise from the basic viewing perspective, for me, two six wheelers look far better than a single modern coach.

In other ways, not sure things have moved on. Recently went down to Brighton by train. The journey involved the so called Javelin high speed train to St Pancras, then a Networker down to the coast. The Javelin is impressive, except that it stops at pretty much all stations from Ramsgate to Ebbsfleet, only getting up speed going under the Thames to Stratford International. Incidentally, there are three 'international' stations in the South East (Ashford, Ebbsfleet and Stratford) that have no international connections whatever. You can only go via St Pancras.

As for the Networker units, considering they are used on journeys like Brighton to Cambridge - at least a couple of hours - the seats are appalling. Half and hour at best before you start being uncomfortable. Many seats on both trains don't align with the windows either! In many ways, it is still an amazing railway. Shame they can't get some of the details right.

Tullygrainey · February 23

18 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I have made good progress on the 6-wheelers today, having found both time and motivation.

I think they're looking the part, and they give me some rolling stock that not many other people have modelled.

There are still a few details to add, mostly associated with the gas and brake plumbing. Also a final clean-up. But they're nearly there.

I'll need to make a final decision on the livery for each of them too. Probably plain green with EdN lettering for both.

Sadly I have some other chores to do today so I don't think I'll have a chance to finish them for a few days.

Exquisite work Paul. Those look spot-on, and so neat. I'm battering away at another BCDR 6 wheeler at the moment so I have some inkling of what's involved in producing these things. Do you use colourless solder? I can't see any

Mol_PMB · February 23

7 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

Exquisite work Paul. Those look spot-on, and so neat. I'm battering away at another BCDR 6 wheeler at the moment so I have some inkling of what's involved in producing these things. Do you use colourless solder? I can't see any

Thanks! They’re not that good on close inspection. The kit design helps because many of the joints are made from the inside.

I use 145 degree leaded solder, Carrs green flux, Antex 25W temperature controlled iron usually at 300C, even for fixing the whitemetal bits (work quickly!). 350C for bigger brass parts.

Broadstone · February 23

On 27/10/2025 at 11:48 AM, Rob R said:

1 down, 39 to go.

Maybe more if I start playing with the settings....

Rob R produced these for me in S Scale Irish Broad Gauge and they are excellent.

Mol_PMB · February 27

I’m staying in Sutton but thought I’d take an endurance trip on the DART. By the time I got to Bray I was in need of a drink:

Lots of trains through the ages on the station walls, but I’m not sure @jhb171achill would approve of the 1930s livery?

Mol_PMB · February 28

Today’s entertainment

As usual the steam heating is mostly going straight to atmosphere!

Galteemore · February 28

Just now, Mol_PMB said:

Today’s entertainment

As usual the steam heating is mostly going straight to atmosphere!

Most interesting to see 171 with a high tender. This was characteristically associated with 174 in latter days of the Derry Road. Hopefully 171 will give you a good run to Thurles.

jhb171achill · February 28

Great to meet up again last night, Mol! We must do it again soon.

Mol_PMB · February 28

Just now, jhb171achill said:

Great to meet up again last night, Mol! We must do it again soon.

See you in Wesht Caark next month?

jhb171achill · February 28

5 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

See you in Wesht Caark next month?

Ya will boy!

Mol_PMB · March 8

The last couple of weeks have been busy, with a few days in Ireland and busy times at work with several days travelling to see clients. Not much time for modelling.

But I've been at home this weekend and have been tackling the backlog of half-finished projects.

The two 6-wheelers are now well progressed in the paintshop. The roofs, underframes and bogies are complete, primed and painted in black, ready for weathering to commence.

The full brake body, with little interior detail to worry about, has progressed straight to topcoat paint. It is finished in a representation of early 1950s unlined dark green livery. I had the eau-de-nil transfers for this printed already. This closeup shows a few wrinkles in the paint, but hopefully once it's matt-varnished and weathered these won't be so obvious:

The sleeping car body is lagging behind a bit because the visible parts of the interior need to be painted before the exterior. Most of the droplights and windows were frosted, but the central part had clear windows on one side so I need a representation of the interior there.

The vehicle I'm modelling had more of its windows frosted than most sleeping cars, and looking at photos of other similar coaches I've worked out a plausible interior layout. Referring to the model image above, my guess is that three former compartments were bunkrooms, two at the left-hand end and one at the right-hand end. You can see parts of the upper bunks on the right-hand coach in this photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511443501/

And in the nearest compartment here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251290821/

I think these bunk rooms were connected by an internal corridor on the opposite side with a horizontally-planked partition that can be seen through the open door here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507984227/

And through the windows at the near end here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5961249977/

Between the bunkrooms I assume there was a central messing area which would probably have had a table, benches, perhaps a kitchen counter with sink and gas hob?

That is plausible when compared to the photos, but does not leave much space for a toilet/washroom. These vehicles had 3 roof-mounted water tanks which suggests there was more use for water than just a sink in the kitchen. I don't suppose @Westcorkrailway knows a man with any gen on the interior layout?

Next, I now have the components needed to complete the horsebox and that has progressed some more, with the ends and W-irons fitted. Again, a cruel closeup. Plenty more to do on this, but it's starting to look the part.

The last items on my custom etch were some scenic items for the Quartertown Mill layout. I had tried making a weighbridge with the laser-cutter which was OK, but I decided to modify the artwork and try it as an etch, which is much better. Also I did some cosmetic point levers of they type that are set flush into the ground, and some grids for the grain hoppers to discharge into. These are all now being painted, but seen here in raw metal:

Galteemore · March 8

Lovely Paul. What kind of green did you use use ?

Mol_PMB · March 8

11 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Lovely Paul. What kind of green did you use use ?

Thanks!

Much less science applied to choosing the paint this time, it was a case of looking in the paint drawer and picking something that looked about right, then seeing if there was still liquid inside.

Having been modelling for 40-odd years I've got quite a stash, many untouched for decades and in variable condition. I recently discovered this website which helps me work out how old some of these paints are: https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/humbrol.htm

So, to answer your question, the green is Humbrol 3, dating from the early 1990s. I thinned it slightly for spraying with enamel thinners.

However, the brass for the door handles is Humbrol HS230, dating from the late 1970s - this must have been old stock even when I bought it as a kid!

I had used a bit of each back in the 1980s, but they were both still in excellent condition when shaken and stirred. In my experience the newer Humbrol paints are much more likely to skin or solidify in the tin.

I reckon the green isn't too far off the colour you get when the prototype is well-lit:

In my view it's nicer than the MIR / Precision CIE green colour which is much duller and more blue, perhaps 'weathered paint on a dull day' appearance.

Horsetan · March 8

23 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Thanks!

Much less science applied to choosing the paint this time, it was a case of looking in the paint drawer and picking something that looked about right, then seeing if there was still liquid inside.

Having been modelling for 40-odd years I've got quite a stash, many untouched for decades and in variable condition. I recently discovered this website which helps me work out how old some of these paints are: https://robdebie.home.xs4all.nl/models/humbrol.htm

So, to answer your question, the green is Humbrol 3, dating from the early 1990s. I thinned it slightly for spraying with enamel thinners.

However, the brass for the door handles is Humbrol HS230, dating from the late 1970s - this must have been old stock even when I bought it as a kid!

I had used a bit of each back in the 1980s, but they were both still in excellent condition when shaken and stirred. In my experience the newer Humbrol paints are much more likely to skin or solidify in the tin....

Humbrol no.3 is Brunswick Green - I used quite a lot of it in the 1980s on Airfix/Dapol plastic loco kits.

Humbrol could be quite inconsistent when it came to shelf life. Their gloss black would last for years, but I remember orange, white and even Brunswick green would go solid quite quickly. I still have tins I haven't touched since the early 1990s (likely all rock hard now), as well as some early Railmatch bottles - one of which (Prototype Deltic blue) had a safety cap which refused to open.

Mol_PMB · March 8

2 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

Humbrol no.3 is Brunswick Green - I used quite a lot of it in the 1980s on Airfix/Dapol plastic loco kits.

Humbrol could be quite inconsistent when it came to shelf life. Their gloss black would last for years, but I remember orange, white and even Brunswick green would go solid quite quickly. I still have tins I haven't touched since the early 1990s (likely all rock hard now), as well as some early Railmatch bottles - one of which (Prototype Deltic blue) had a safety cap which refused to open.

Agreed, they call it Brunswick Green. But that same name is used for many other sorts of green, often with a much more brownish shade. And I'm not sure that all Humbrol shades have been consistent over the years either.

Here's a shot of the full brake body under layout lighting and compared to the A class in light green:

The plain green livery really was very plain, there are only 6 small decals on the whole vehicle (one on each end too). And it's prototypically correct that they don't line up!

I think I'm going to do the horsebox in the same dark green, that will at least have a snail to decorate it.

It would be interesting to compare this shade to the IRM loco or Hattons coaches produced in dark green, but I'm happy with it for now. For my modelling period it's a livery that would be at least 6 years old and quite worn/weathered. That stage is yet to come on the model.

Turin60 · March 8

Some of those old tins might well surprise you with how long lasting they can be!

John Bruce.

Westcorkrailway · March 8

6 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

The last couple of weeks have been busy, with a few days in Ireland and busy times at work with several days travelling to see clients. Not much time for modelling.

But I've been at home this weekend and have been tackling the backlog of half-finished projects.

The two 6-wheelers are now well progressed in the paintshop. The roofs, underframes and bogies are complete, primed and painted in black, ready for weathering to commence.

The full brake body, with little interior detail to worry about, has progressed straight to topcoat paint. It is finished in a representation of early 1950s unlined dark green livery. I had the eau-de-nil transfers for this printed already. This closeup shows a few wrinkles in the paint, but hopefully once it's matt-varnished and weathered these won't be so obvious:

The sleeping car body is lagging behind a bit because the visible parts of the interior need to be painted before the exterior. Most of the droplights and windows were frosted, but the central part had clear windows on one side so I need a representation of the interior there.

The vehicle I'm modelling had more of its windows frosted than most sleeping cars, and looking at photos of other similar coaches I've worked out a plausible interior layout. Referring to the model image above, my guess is that three former compartments were bunkrooms, two at the left-hand end and one at the right-hand end. You can see parts of the upper bunks on the right-hand coach in this photo:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511443501/

And in the nearest compartment here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251290821/

I think these bunk rooms were connected by an internal corridor on the opposite side with a horizontally-planked partition that can be seen through the open door here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53507984227/

And through the windows at the near end here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishswissernie/5961249977/

Between the bunkrooms I assume there was a central messing area which would probably have had a table, benches, perhaps a kitchen counter with sink and gas hob?

That is plausible when compared to the photos, but does not leave much space for a toilet/washroom. These vehicles had 3 roof-mounted water tanks which suggests there was more use for water than just a sink in the kitchen. I don't suppose @Westcorkrailway knows a man with any gen on the interior layout?

Next, I now have the components needed to complete the horsebox and that has progressed some more, with the ends and W-irons fitted. Again, a cruel closeup. Plenty more to do on this, but it's starting to look the part.

The last items on my custom etch were some scenic items for the Quartertown Mill layout. I had tried making a weighbridge with the laser-cutter which was OK, but I decided to modify the artwork and try it as an etch, which is much better. Also I did some cosmetic point levers of they type that are set flush into the ground, and some grids for the grain hoppers to discharge into. These are all now being painted, but seen here in raw metal:

As far as I know, Ray Good actually slept in one of these, or at the very least had a good look inside of them when they were sent down to Bantry for fair specials, he’s coming on the tailte tours bus trip in a few weeks…

Horsetan · March 8

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

....Here's a shot of the full brake body under layout lighting and compared to the A class in light green:

The A is more the shade of mushy peas

2 hours ago, Turin60 said:

Some of those old tins might well surprise you with how long lasting they can be!

John Bruce.

I'd be happy just to be able to open that bottle of Railmatch ProtoDeltic Blue, to be honest. I think a vacuum formed when the cap was originally sealed.

Mol_PMB · March 9

7 hours ago, Horsetan said:

The A is more the shade of mushy peas

I'd be happy just to be able to open that bottle of Railmatch ProtoDeltic Blue, to be honest. I think a vacuum formed when the cap was originally sealed.

I had difficulty with those old jars but succeeded with some heat.
I think I put half an inch of boiling water in a dish and then put a jar upside down into that so that the cap was heated.
Then dried it off and it was possible (though still stiff) to remove.
On the other hand if a vacuum is the problem then immersing the while jar in boiling water for a few minutes should help.

Be careful and don’t sue me for scalds or paint splatters!

Mol_PMB · March 14

The full brake is now just about complete in tatty dark green livery. Seen here with the lav compo I built previously.

This photo from Ernie shows a different type of coach but helped to inspire some of the worn areas of paint on the model, which is not quite so badly worn:

CIE 1959-05-17 Killiney & Ballybrack JGD590727

The sleeping car isn't too far behind.

Tullygrainey · March 14

Don't they look well! Lovely work.

Galteemore · March 14

Excellent. Really nicely done

Mol_PMB · March 14

3 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

Don't they look well! Lovely work.

Thanks! Everything looks better in the sunshine too.

I'm looking forward to the downsized Alphagraphix MGWR 5-wheel coaches to go with them - adding an MGWR third and brake third will make a great little train.

Hopefully I'll get the sleeping car finished this weekend (apart from the interior details which need more research).

Mol_PMB · March 14

This is where I’m up to with the sleeping car - glazing added and the main parts just posed together.

I do have a spare copy of the etch with bodysides and roof for the full brake and the sleeping car, if anyone else would like to make one. You would need an SSM 6-wheel coach kit as a starting point to provide the underframe, ends and many smaller details.

Colonel · March 15

The paint jobs have finished things off beautifully. Subtle, understated and very much "baby bear porridge"!

Edited March 15 by Colonel

jhb171achill · March 18

Not quite sure whether to post this here or on the "Dugort Harbour" thread, but it's relevant to here in terms of Mol's excellent detail on liveries and weathering. In particular, it assists in dispelling the oft-heard myths about various railway liveries - especially GNR loco blue and the two varieties of CIE green being, in fact, a multiplicity of endless different random shades. As I've poimnted out before, this was never the case; the apparent variations stemmed from several things:

1. Varying weathering.

2. Varying reactions of the lead in the paint with what surface they were painted on.

3. What they were exposed to; brake dust, harsh salt air, both or neither.

4. Most importantly, the massive variation in the degree to which colourt slides have retained true colours today - or, as in MOST cases, not. There are a number of reasons for this, the main one being cheap versus expensive colour film available in the 1955-65 period, but that's for another day.

Anyway; herewith some of the vans used on Dugort Harbour; these three are Hattons Genesis ones. The black'n'tan one is as yet untouched, as it's intended to look as if it is just repainted, although some light brake dust will be applied to the chassis and ends once I get round to it. The two green ones are in the 1945 (dark) green on the right and the 1955 (ight) green on the left.

The bogies are the SAME colour as the van on the left above.

Edited March 19 by jhb171achill

jhb171achill · March 19

The light green van again, and all three.

I’ve a few more I’ll fish out and post to compare, but it’s very easy to see how it could be perceived even back in the day that no two were painted alike!

Mol_PMB · March 19

Many thanks JHB! I completely agree that there were many factors affecting the appearance of the paint, and even more variability in how well that colour was captured on colour film of the period.

I think I mentioned to you when were in Malahide the other week, that I've been compiling a list of colour images showing contrasting shades of CIE green in the same photo. Comparing two greens in the same image helps to reduce the influence of the film variables, and often the sunlight/shade differences, but the variables in the paint application and weathering remain.

One of the big challenges is that reliable good quality colour film was almost unavailable in the 1940s, and scarce/expensive in the 1950s, so there are relatively few good colour images from this period. More colour photos from the 1960s are available, but by then most stock in the older dark green livery had been withdrawn or repainted, and the survivors were heavily weathered.

It's also worth noting that while the colour of the dark green paint remained the same for a decade, the style of the livery changed around 1950 and there were several variants of lining, class designations, application of snails etc. There's a clear pattern to these livery variants on new-build stock, but repaints of older stock show more variety.

There is some documentary evidence from an article in IRRS journal No. 37 (June 1965) by Mr. D. Kennedy, which refers to the liveries applied to new-build stock in the 1950s and early 1960s. This mentions a period in 1953/54 when several shades of brighter green were trialled on batches of new coaches, before settling on the standard 'light green' in 1955. The article indicates that the shades of brighter green trialled were unsuitable, and therefore must have been somewhet different from the 1955 light green.

Now, an article published in 1965 is more contemporary than today's memories, but it was still 12 years after the 1953 period being described. It would be interesting to see if there were truly contemporary accounts in the 1950s IRRS journals mentioning the trial liveries. Unfortunately I don't have copies of the journals for that period to check.

I would like to write a thread on the evolution of the green livery and I have a lot of photo references to support it, but I feel that I need to check the contemporary journals (IRRS and IRN) for more information. I don't want to perpetuate myths.

Anyway, to compare with JHB's model photos, here is a wonderful selection of colour images from Ernie's collection dating from a sunny late April 1956.

These two coaches appear to be in plain unlined dark green with no 3 or 2 class digits or snails (a livery applied to new-build stock from around 1950, and also to some older stock), with some weathering:

CIE 1956-04-23 Cork,Kent ex DSE 223D yj144

Stepping to the right a bit, the same coach is visible to the left of the image, but the main subject is in a much brighter green with a fine EdN waist line, but no class digits or snails. It's 1956, and it's a sunny day, this could be standard light green. Alternatively, this may be an example of a 1953 experimental shade of bright green. Given all the vagaries of colour reproduction we may never know which. But there's no doubt it's a lot brighter than the plain dark green coach beyond.

CIE 1956-04-26 Cork, Kent ex GSW 878 yj142

Same day in April 1956, same place, probably the same photographer, perhaps the same roll of film. The sun is still casting strong shadows so the lighting is similar. Here are three coaches in green with a fine EdN waist line, but no class digits or snails. They look quite clean. Is this light green or dark green? It's somewhere in between the two shades in the photo above. One interpretation is that the ones below are light green and the one above is 1953 experimental bright green. Or are the ones below in dark green but looking bright in the sunshine? Some new-build coaches were painted dark green with a fine EdN waist line in the 1951-2 period so it's possible. Trying to work this out makes my brain hurt, especially since I want to model this coach!

Same day, the sun is still shining and I think the same photographer has taken a train to Youghal to capture this lovely image. The old GSWR clerestory is in plain dark green, heavily weathered and looking almost grey. The coach beyond it appears to be freshly painted in standard light green.

This photo is from a different collection and doesn't have a confirmed date, but just look at the dramatic colour contrast between the freshly-painted AEC railcar and the weathered old plain dark green coach behind it!

By the 1960 date of this next photo we would expect that most stock would have been repainted in the light green livery which had been introduced in 1955. These coaches also all have '2' class digits on the doors which were introduced in 1956, and the leading one has a snail. The leading coach is undoubtedly freshly painted in standard light green. My gut feel is that the others are also painted light green, but with several years of weathering accounting for the duller, darker colour. But I can't prove it and other interpretations are certainly possible.