Idea for the Future?

[Patrick Davey]

On Saturday past, work brought me to Armagh, the 'ecclesiastical' capital of Ireland.

Armagh was once a 4-way railway junction, with the last surviving lines through the city closing in 1957, although there seems to be a remote possibility that Armagh might see trains again, sometime in the future.  Armagh was located on the Ulster Railway route from Belfast to Cavan, later taken over by the GNR(I).  The first station beyond Armagh on this line was at Killylea, and the station is an absolute gem of a preserved station, with station building, goods shed and signal cabin all surviving, along with a tiny brick building on the down platform which may have been a - very small - waiting room.  There is also a huge stone overbridge at the Cavan end although this has been partially filled in.  I visited Killylea once before but I did so again on Saturday, and with the kind permission of the owner, I took some photographs:

Looking back towards Armagh

 

Looking towards Cavan

 

Goods shed

 

Goods shed and signal cabin

 

Main station building

 

Signal cabin, with station name evident

 

Rear of signal cabin

 

So naturally this has started me thinking of a project for the future.  Plans for my next project are well advanced so these musings would be for the one after that......

Killylea would be an excellent subject for an exhibition layout and it would suit my interests, and current rolling stock collection, very well.

Even before the 'what if' is considered, a Killylea-based layout would offer the following:

* Double track main line

* Attractive and varied architecture, with a mix of (presumably) original UR buildings and later GNR(I) buildings

* Passenger and goods workings, featuring fast passenger expresses as well as local services, with steam locomotives & railcars in attendance

* Classic overbridge scenic break at one end

* Goods shed for operational variety

I also have a suitable signal cabin built already.

 

Then 'what if' the route didn't close in 1957 - CIE diesels could appear on diversionary services via Cavan and Clones, and at a stretch, if the line survived into the 1970s, NIR Hunslets and 80 class railcars could feature.

 

The cogs are turning.......

 

 

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

Nice idea! I look forward to seeing what transpires. 

[Patrick Davey]

32 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Nice idea! I look forward to seeing what transpires. 

Won't be this week or next....

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, Patrick Davey said:

Won't be this week or next....

That’s fine, the same could be said of the contents of my cupboard of shame! The unbuilt kits must run into 3 figures!

[commerlad]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

That’s fine, the same could be said of the contents of my cupboard of shame! The unbuilt kits must run into 3 figures!

Surprised it's only 3.

[Mol_PMB]

6 minutes ago, commerlad said:

Surprised it's only 3.

Well to be honest it's more a room of shame than a cupboard!

[Patrick Davey]

Actually......I wonder was it double track through Killylea, @jhb171achill can you verify or correct?

I always thought Portadown - Clones was double.

Or maybe it was doubled at one stage then singled later on...

No reference books to hand just now.....

Edited June 2 by Patrick Davey

[Patrick Davey]

RM Arnold has provided the answer:

 

[jhb171achill]

27 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

RM Arnold has provided the answer:

 

Ye beat me to it!

[jhb171achill]

6 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

On Saturday past, work brought me to Armagh, the 'ecclesiastical' capital of Ireland.

Armagh was once a 4-way railway junction, with the last surviving lines through the city closing in 1957, although there seems to be a remote possibility that Armagh might see trains again, sometime in the future.  Armagh was located on the Ulster Railway route from Belfast to Cavan, later taken over by the GNR(I).  The first station beyond Armagh on this line was at Killylea, and the station is an absolute gem of a preserved station, with station building, goods shed and signal cabin all surviving, along with a tiny brick building on the down platform which may have been a - very small - waiting room.  There is also a huge stone overbridge at the Cavan end although this has been partially filled in.  I visited Killylea once before but I did so again on Saturday, and with the kind permission of the owner, I took some photographs:

Looking back towards Armagh

 

Looking towards Cavan

 

Goods shed

 

Goods shed and signal cabin

 

Main station building

 

Signal cabin, with station name evident

 

Rear of signal cabin

 

So naturally this has started me thinking of a project for the future.  Plans for my next project are well advanced so these musings would be for the one after that......

Killylea would be an excellent subject for an exhibition layout and it would suit my interests, and current rolling stock collection, very well.

Even before the 'what if' is considered, a Killylea-based layout would offer the following:

* Double track main line

* Attractive and varied architecture, with a mix of (presumably) original UR buildings and later GNR(I) buildings

* Passenger and goods workings, featuring fast passenger expresses as well as local services, with steam locomotives & railcars in attendance

* Classic overbridge scenic break at one end

* Goods shed for operational variety

I also have a suitable signal cabin built already.

Then 'what if' the route didn't close in 1957 - CIE diesels could appear on diversionary services via Cavan and Clones, and at a stretch, if the line survived into the 1970s, NIR Hunslets and 80 class railcars could feature.

The cogs are turning.......

The whole route wasn't double.... I think at one time Killylea was, though.

As for layour possibilities, they are endless. No border or no Stormont, would have meant this line very likely would have survived, certainly into the 1970s. So what would have run on it? Whatever was operating on the GNR main line under UTA and NIR is the answer.

It's unlikely Inny Jct - Cavan would have survived anyway, as there's nowhere between Mullingar and Clones of note except Cavan. So, you'd be looking at either portadown to Armagh as a branch, or possibly an extension to clones, where it would meet the Irish North. It is hard to see any CIE activity in Killyleagh, but if you switch locations to the INW, and assume that Enniskillen has remained, you've UTA and CIE operations sharing the Dundalk - Enniskillen line, in much the same way as Portadown - Dundalk. So by the late 60s, you're going to have ex-GNR railcars in UTA green, then NIR maroon and grey, and a Dundalk-based set of a 141 and two (probably fairly mangy!) old Bredins or laminates and a tin van. What goods there would be - another 141 and mostly CIE wagons. All in all, a nice mix.

If one wants to go to a modern era, there won't be much beyond a Dundalk-based 29 class 4-car, plus an NIR 3k 3-car. You could spice it up with timber trains from forests in Co Monaghan, of course; cue the 071s! Maybe in the 1980s, fertiliser and Guinness?

[airfixfan]

Killylea station survives today in great condition. Unlike Tynan

[BSGSV]

On 2/6/2025 at 7:36 PM, Patrick Davey said:

Actually......I wonder was it double track through Killylea, @jhb171achill can you verify or correct?

I always thought Portadown - Clones was double.

Or maybe it was doubled at one stage then singled later on...

No reference books to hand just now.....

Double, Portadown Junction to Armagh, and later also Clones to Monaghan.

Single elsewhere, and the double line appears to have been singled in the early 30's, except from Portadown to Richhill.

[Patrick Davey]

UPDATE:

I have decided that the above plan, appealing as it was, is totally impractical for the space I have available and my meagre transport capacity.

But it was nice to imagine!

[Rob R]

Patrick,

It was a very worthwhile planning exercise  which I am sure will inspire someone else in the future.

A wonderfull set of photographs which will, with a little bit of brick counting, enable someone to produce an excellent model.

Did you take a closer view of the station building and one of the other (road) side?

 

Looking forward to your next project.

Rob

[Galteemore]

That’s a pity Patrick. If it’s any consolation, the photos are most useful - thank you ! 

[Patrick Davey]

7 minutes ago, Rob R said:

Patrick,

It was a very worthwhile planning exercise  which I am sure will inspire someone else in the future.

A wonderfull set of photographs which will, with a little bit of brick counting, enable someone to produce an excellent model.

Did you take a closer view of the station building and one of the other (road) side?

 

Looking forward to your next project.

Rob

Thanks Rob - I should’ve done that, but I will aim to do so on my next visit.  It would be a great subject!

6 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

That’s a pity Patrick. If it’s any consolation, the photos are most useful - thank you ! I shears 

7 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

That’s a pity Patrick. If it’s any consolation, the photos are most useful - thank you ! 

I always aim to please

PS…… a more realistic plan is in the development stages! 

[Rob R]

Patrick,

If you do vist again, the other side and end of the goods shed, the small waiting shelter and the overbridge could do with a few electrons being gathered as well

Rob

[jhb171achill]

If I had the time and money and space to build and equip every layout I've ever planned, sketched out, or doodled or dreamed up, and I'm sure i do two or three a day - put together, they'd be seen from outer space!

I once concocted an imaginary system in my head. I wondered how many people it would need to operate it, so I sketched it out to see. The answer was that it would take an absolute minimum of maybe 40 people to operate it fully!

 

Edited yesterday at 20:45 by jhb171achill

[Galteemore]

One of my biggest missed opportunities only came to light thirty years after the  event. I lived in Edinburgh from 89-93 and had no idea till decades later that I’d missed out on seeing Richard Chown’s Castle Rackrent system, then in its heyday. It didn’t require 40 operators but a fair few even so : it was a proper end to end Irish 5’3 system, operated with signals and bell codes. I’d love such a thing - imagine the Irish North and Sligo Leitrim stuff you could do……but reality bites us all. In the end, a smaller layout is quicker to build, easier to operate, and less to maintain. Doesn’t stop us dreaming and can’t wait to see what you do next @Patrick Davey

Edited yesterday at 21:12 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

59 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

One of my biggest missed opportunities only came to light thirty years after the  event. I lived in Edinburgh from 89-93 and had no idea till decades later that I’d missed out on seeing Richard Chown’s Castle Rackrent system, then in its heyday. It didn’t require 40 operators but a fair few even so : it was a proper end to end Irish 5’3 system, operated with signals and bell codes. I’d love such a thing - imagine the Irish North and Sligo Leitrim stuff you could do……but reality bites us all. In the end, a smaller layout is quicker to build, easier to operate, and less to maintain. Doesn’t stop us dreaming and can’t wait to see what you do next @Patrick Davey

True

[David Holman]

The classic railway modelling conundrum: so many ideas, but insufficient space, money, time etc...

 I find that going through the planning exercise helps. Usually comes to nothing, but when filed away for future reference may yet provide inspiration.

[Horsetan]

9 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

If I had the time and money and space to build and equip every layout I've ever planned, sketched out, or doodled or dreamed up, and I'm sure i do two or three a day - put together, they'd be seen from outer space!

I once concocted an imaginary system in my head. I wondered how many people it would need to operate it, so I sketched it out to see. The answer was that it would take an absolute minimum of maybe 40 people to operate it fully!

 

That's why FREMO module networks might actually be a practical way of achieving the ultimate layout...

Me, I keep thinking of stations like Claremorris (with the pre-1975 track layout), Macmine Junction, and so on....

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Horsetan said:

That's why FREMO module networks might actually be a practical way of achieving the ultimate layout...

Me, I keep thinking of stations like Claremorris (with the pre-1975 track layout), Macmine Junction, and so on....

Macmine would be an amazing one!!

[Horsetan]

4 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Macmine would be an amazing one!!

I quite like the idea of a junction station layout/module - trains can call and then go off on two/three/four different route options.

Claremorris had five exits at its peak....

[Galteemore]

Ballisodare would offer a fair amount of through traffic going interesting places, but with a simple track plan - the actual junctions were at Carrignagat. MGWR, WLWR and SLNC traffic all passed through. Would be a fairly kaleidoscopic display of liveries  if modelled pre 1925.

[David Holman]

Which is exactly the excuse I use for Northport Quay. Go for early 1900s and you can add WL&WR too.

[Patrick Davey]

7 hours ago, Horsetan said:

I quite like the idea of a junction station layout/module - trains can call and then go off on two/three/four different route options.

Claremorris had five exits at its peak....

Waterford too - ish