New models?

[richrua]

Interesting points on the cRavens coaches. I would love a few. In fact I would love several Murphy coaches in diff liveries. So far my problem has been that when I have a few quid I would rather buy a Murphy loco. I am not sure why, but I think I have a little fear that some day the locos will be very hard to get and I would rather have a few that will last me! silly I know, but the Murphy locos really are wayyyy above anything and more worth my cash than the coaches. I am happy to spray various things to pull behind them.....

[Noel]

Aside from their quality and nostalgia, one of things that appeals to me about Cravens is their versatility in making up trains. One or two, combined with just a mk1 GSV or Dutch, or just one and a park royal we're as common a sight as, four, six, or eight coach rakes. They could be hauled by every MM loco. It was almost more common than unusual at one time to have rakes with a few Cravens, park royals and laminates all mixed. It provides a good modelling platform to collect one or two specialist coaches to run with them (eg Park Royal and laminate).

[spudfan]

I have ten Murphy Models locos which is a fair investment in Mr Murphy's products. If Paddy is waiting until every last item in storage is sold before the next loco is released then we are in for a long wait. People will only buy a model that they want and not to help someone move stock. There can't be that much left in storage judging by the amount of locos that are out of stock with retailers. If the 121's were released they would be bound to sell very well owing to the fact that most people will buy more than one model as they frequently ran in pairs. Maybe there are just too many headaches dealing with overseas partners when you don't have eyes on the ground to supervise how things are progressing. I am happy with what Paddy has released so far and anxiously await his next loco or even locos. Maybe the locos released so far are all that we will get who knows? I had thought that another manufacturer was to enter the Irish market and piggyback the Irish rtr stuff onto their own orders to help reduce costs but that does not seem to be the case.

[Railer]

There really is not that much stock still out there. Any online site that has a stock counter only show a few models of each about with alot of sites fully sold out. All the 141/181s are long gone, 201 is gone, all of the orange roof IE Mk2s are gone. 111,112 and 113 are gone. I can only see 1 site with 111 in stock and they just have 1 of it. There are not too many 071s left. The 201s are not too popular from the looks of things.

 

I reckon PM could do another run of 141/181s and they would sell out provided they match the quality of the existing models, same with another run of Mk2 EGVs it would save having to get the ST EGVs sprayed/tippexed.

[DiveController]

I reckon PM could do another run of 141/181s and they would sell out provided they match the quality of the existing models, same with another run of Mk2 EGVs it would save having to get the ST EGVs sprayed/tippexed.

 

I think that assessment is correct but time and again we have heard on here that the investment by MM has to be recouped before a new run will happen. Looking at the patterns of release of new models certainly supports. I'll bet a run of 121s would sell out fairly easily if they were available in the morning but we're waiting still.....

I cannot see the ST MK2s selling quickly and that may impact those releases. Months have gone by and MM is happy for these continue to sell with all the issues that it itself apparently recognizes and communicated (only) through forum members. This raises questions over the quality of a new run of 141s. MM is not helping its own reputation as a vendor right now

[Warbonnet]

I think that assessment is correct but time and again we have heard on here that the investment by MM has to be recouped before a new run will happen. Looking at the patterns of release of new models certainly supports. I'll bet a run of 121s would sell out fairly easily if they were available in the morning but we're waiting still.....

I cannot see the ST MK2s selling quickly and that may impact those releases. Months have gone by and MM is happy for these continue to sell with all the issues that it itself apparently recognizes and communicated (only) through forum members. This raises questions over the quality of a new run of 141s. MM is not helping its own reputation as a vendor right now

 

Maybe you should email him directly to discuss your displeasure about the Super Trains Mark IIs.

[Junctionmad]

With the greatest respect. While it might be possible for PM to re - release existing models assuming the mould tools are in good order , I cannot see any new releases forthcoming given his age. I'm sure he has felt he has done enough at this stage. Given the advances in 3D printing etc. I cannot see the issue in the future with specialist models like irish railways. We can have great kits and small volume runs of suitable locos etc. it's not really practical to expect the same group of people , ie the small customer base , to endlessly support large volume irish RTR.

[DiveController]

Maybe you should email him directly to discuss your displeasure about the Super Trains Mark IIs.

In my post, I referred to MM, a business and vendor that has placed a product on the market for profit that has drawn significant negative criticism from the customers relative to the high quality models previously produced. By all accounts, 'he' is well aware of the situation, "his good reputation" and the thread discussing the Mk2ds on this site. It is unfortunate what has happened with the STs but how a business deals with that situation is what speaks to its customers. This is just one opinion and based on the company's awareness of multiple opinions and its response to the situation, that would be an exercise in futility, I would think.

[DiveController]

I cannot see any new releases forthcoming given his age.

Oddly enough, something to that effect was apparently stated by PM to another modeler (effectively hearsay in some respects as it was not stated directly to me). Producing these models cannot be an easy task and despite my previous post, I do have a lot of sympathy for PM and hope that the ham-fisted manufacturer in China has not set in motion, events that that discourages any further models from MM.

 

it's not really practical to expect the same group of people , ie the small customer base , to endlessly support large volume irish RTR.

I agree that there should not be an expectation to buy for its own sake, but, that said, MM has pretty much sold every model it has ever produced. Granted the timeframe varies from model to model somewhat but I think that high quality products will always sell and be desired by present and future modelers.

[Warbonnet]

In my post, I referred to MM, a business and vendor that has placed a product on the market for profit that has drawn significant negative criticism from the customers relative to the high quality models previously produced. By all accounts, 'he' is well aware of the situation, "his good reputation" and the thread discussing the Mk2ds on this site. It is unfortunate what has happened with the STs but how a business deals with that situation is what speaks to its customers. This is just one opinion and based on the company's awareness of multiple opinions and its response to the situation, that would be an exercise in futility, I would think.

 

So, you're relying on hearsay when it comes to PM knowing about the issue. I think if anyone wants the situation rectified they'd be better off contacting MM directly rather than moaning time and again on 3rd party forums and going over old ground. People power after all. Maybe PM isnt aware of the extent of the dissatisfaction among his customer base as they havent contacted him directly. Or is there a case that some people love having something to moan about and score cheap points with?

 

I think he has handled the situation poorly (my own professional opinion, as I work in such an area.) but then again, has his client base also handled their end badly by not communicating their unhappiness directly to the man himself through his own official website and instead post on here and hope he might read it? Just a thought.

[Warbonnet]

With the greatest respect. While it might be possible for PM to re - release existing models assuming the mould tools are in good order , I cannot see any new releases forthcoming given his age. I'm sure he has felt he has done enough at this stage. Given the advances in 3D printing etc. I cannot see the issue in the future with specialist models like irish railways. We can have great kits and small volume runs of suitable locos etc. it's not really practical to expect the same group of people , ie the small customer base , to endlessly support large volume irish RTR.

 

I think I'd rather pay for a top quality RTR loco with a finish akin to one from the MM stable than something 3D printed with the finish of an egg carton. MM will do the 121s once money from previously released models has been recouped. Then it's a matter of giving China the go-ahead. It's his principle that has got him this far in his business and I'm sure that's what he'll stick to. I also dont think that a run of circa 500 locos is a 'big run'. Pretty much all previous locos done to this volume (or 252 when it comes to ltd edition 071s) have sold out.

[Junctionmad]

Oddly enough, something to that effect was apparently stated by PM to another modeler (effectively hearsay in some respects as it was not stated directly to me). Producing these models cannot be an easy task and despite my previous post, I do have a lot of sympathy for PM and hope that the ham-fisted manufacturer in China has not set in motion, events that that discourages any further models from MM.

 

Well I was part of a conversation with PM, at the Raheny exhibition, where he explicitly pointed out his age and asked us to draw the inevitable conclusion. I think it's obvious we will not see any new models under his leadership of MM and that's perfectly understandable.

 

Personally I think like many the decision to do a 201 class over 121 was an error of judgement , but that's just me.

[DiveController]

Maybe PM isn't aware of the extent of the dissatisfaction among his customer base as they havent contacted him directly.

Has his client base also handled their end badly by not communicating their unhappiness directly to the man himself through his own official website

 

He should be. It's his business. I know of vendors who have had orders rejected by the customers. I think it pretty clear the situation has been communicated back to MM.

 

Personally I think like many the decision to do a 201 class over 121 was an error of judgement , but that's just me.

 

I would love to see the 121s come out but I think that was a good business decision. With Lima prices rising that high, the market was asking for a newer high quality model and they've not been left on the shelves.

[Warbonnet]

He should be. It's his business. I know of vendors who have had orders rejected by the customers. I think it pretty clear the situation has been communicated back to MM.

 

 

Once again Kevin my point is that you are going on assumption. If you have a problem with the product, there is no point in moaning on a third party site or to a 3rd party vendor. The best solution is to contact the manufacturer directly. Plenty of people are moaning about PM not saying anything, yet they havent contacted him. It's bizarre behaviour. If people want something done they should email him. Then the situation will have a better chance of getting resolved than moaning on here time again. After all, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

[Junctionmad]

Once again Kevin my point is that you are going on assumption. If you have a problem with the product, there is no point in moaning on a third party site or to a 3rd party vendor. The best solution is to contact the manufacturer directly. Plenty of people are moaning about PM not saying anything, yet they havent contacted him. It's bizarre behaviour. If people want something done they should email him. Then the situation will have a better chance of getting resolved than moaning on here time again. After all, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

Actually I would disagree. Privately complaining allows a company to " contain" issues. Public complaints have far greater effect , as they not only inform the manufacturer , but also build a complaint " consensus " that can be very hard for manufacturers to ignore.

 

For example ,if I complain on a forum and as a result ( you) decide to forgo a purchase , that's much more damaging then a private complaint , where ( you) proceed to purchase without seeing the complaint

 

If you want to raise a ruckus, the best place is " in public " etc

[Warbonnet]

Actually I would disagree. Privately complaining allows a company to " contain" issues. Public complaints have far greater effect , as they not only inform the manufacturer , but also build a complaint " consensus " that can be very hard for manufacturers to ignore.

 

For example ,if I complain on a forum and as a result ( you) decide to forgo a purchase , that's much more damaging then a private complaint , where ( you) proceed to purchase without seeing the complaint

 

If you want to raise a ruckus, the best place is " in public " etc

 

Well, it hasnt worked so far in this instance, has it?

 

And what you're saying is that it's best that Murphy Models reputation is damaged? Well that's going to help the Irish modelling community, isnt it?

 

Once again you miss my point. You want something done, go to the organ grinder, not sit down the road moaning about it like a broken record.

[Noel]

I can understand both strands of opinion. However, a sense of fair play suggests that a customer should first contact a vendor if there is a problem with goods or services that had been purchased, but only go public should they not receive a reasonable or satisfactory outcome. In the case of model rail supplies, one would contact the retail outlet who supplied the goods rather than the wholesaler or manufacturer, who may in turn may take it up with their supply chain.

 

It is quite another matter to complain publically about goods or services that may not have even been purchased by the complainant, and one would have to be very careful not to defame the good name of a business or person on mere internet hearsay. Fair and objective comment is however valid. Talking quietly behind the scenes more often than not, but not always, tends to resolve issues better then publicity on the internet. Yet pointing out any truth in a fair and reasonable manner is valid.

 

On the other hand, one doesn't want to harm the goose who normally lays the golden eggs just because one didn't hatch as well as others. Even if the goose decides enough eggs have been laid over the years, this customer is very grateful for the superb eggs in the past.

[Junctionmad]

Well, it hasnt worked so far in this instance, has it?

 

And what you're saying is that it's best that Murphy Models reputation is damaged? Well that's going to help the Irish modelling community, isnt it?

 

Once again you miss my point. You want something done, go to the organ grinder, not sit down the road moaning about it like a broken record.

 

Let me say I have no skin in this particular dispute as I dont see the specific issues with the MK2d super train model as it applies to me ( yes it has its faults, but it is what it is)

 

what I was merely saying is this

 

(a) If you feel you have a " product defect", that absolutely you need to complain directly and privately for that defect to be fixed. a public complaint is the last resort

 

(b) However, if you feel a particular offering from a commercial company, is less then you expect, then that is different and public discussion and debate ( including whinging) is entirely appropriate , no more then lambasting Ford for the defects of a specific model.

 

I never understand the view that MM Ltd is somehow a fairy godmother to the Irish modelling scene. I fully expect that PM is in it to make a profit , even if its a small , medium or large one . He's not loosing money to support us !!!!. One should not engage in frivolous negativity of course, but where their is a consensus on a particular defect,( or lack of feature) thats a valid point of discussion ( like the colour etc ). Having met PM, I fully suspect he is aware of the criticism and praise he receives and has more then enough personality to weather the public debate.

 

Given the healthy cadre of small supplier to the Irish scene, I suspect models that MM may never do, will appear in the future and in fact its clear theres room for example for someone to do low volume kit runs of 141s etc

Edited May 6, 2015 by Junctionmad

[David]

Well, it hasnt worked so far in this instance, has it?

 

And what you're saying is that it's best that Murphy Models reputation is damaged? Well that's going to help the Irish modelling community, isnt it?

 

Once again you miss my point. You want something done, go to the organ grinder, not sit down the road moaning about it like a broken record.

 

What does 'worked' mean? MM is not going to offer widespread discounts or recall vast amounts of models. We wont know if the public complaining has 'worked' until the next MM model which shows an improvement. Suggesting that Kevin contacting MM directly and privately will somehow magically resolve the issue is totally ludicrous.

 

Also, it has already been stated in another thread that MM was aware of this forum and the opinions on the ST mk2s.

[Noel]

I think I'd rather pay for a top quality RTR loco with a finish akin to one from the MM stable than something 3D printed with the finish of an egg carton.

 

+1

 

I'm not impressed with any of the coarse looking 121 kit built models I have seen nor the low speed running qualities of ones I've seen operating. Give me a RTR MM/Bachmann quality injection moulded body and precision centre drive chassis any day. 3D doesn't blow my skirt up yet, its early days, nor the idea of kit bashing a 3D body onto an adapted chassis. Personally I'd rather be without than run badly bodged models. I won't start on the quality of model kit painting which varies from sublime excellence to something that looks like my kids used to bring home from school.

[Junctionmad]

+1

 

I'm not impressed with any of the coarse looking 121 kit built models I have seen nor the low speed running qualities of ones I've seen operating. Give me a RTR MM/Bachmann quality injection moulded body and precision centre drive chassis any day. 3D doesn't blow my skirt up yet, its early days, nor the idea of kit bashing a 3D body onto an adapted chassis. Personally I'd rather be without than run badly bodged models. I won't start on the quality of model kit painting which varies from sublime excellence to something that looks like my kids used to bring home from school.

 

We cannot expect that a customer base of about 300 in Ireland and some 100-200 elsewhere will sustain high quality RTR in the future. Models are getting significantly more expensive as labour costs rise in China, hence we have to except that the economics of RTR may infact not work anymore for this niche . MM tapped into a desire at a time and place, and many went out and bought vast arrays of models, such that they are unlikely to buy these volumes again. Hence , I suspect we may never see any more RTR of that ilk.

 

Therefore we must turn to what we CAN do. rather then return to the repainted BR diesels of my teens, we now have a active and competent small group of " manufacturers" , no reason that a combination of etches, resin, 3D etc cannot be used to achieve the result go putting Irish models on the " table"

 

personally I feel this would be a terrible hobby , if all it was was taking pre-built RTR Irish " outline " models out of boxes, it would quickly become a rich mans hobby

 

The systems and mechanisms are there for people to make kits into superb models with running qualities way in excess of RTR ( fully compensated chassis for example) . MM doesn't have any sort of lock on that

[Warbonnet]

What does 'worked' mean? MM is not going to offer widespread discounts or recall vast amounts of models. We wont know if the public complaining has 'worked' until the next MM model which shows an improvement. Suggesting that Kevin contacting MM directly and privately will somehow magically resolve the issue is totally ludicrous.

 

Also, it has already been stated in another thread that MM was aware of this forum and the opinions on the ST mk2s.

 

Very simple David, bleating on about defects with MM products on the forum hasnt had the desired effect - i.e an official response from Murphy Models. That's what people seem to want.

[Junctionmad]

Well, it hasnt worked so far in this instance, has it?

 

And what you're saying is that it's best that Murphy Models reputation is damaged? Well that's going to help the Irish modelling community, isnt it?

 

Once again you miss my point. You want something done, go to the organ grinder, not sit down the road moaning about it like a broken record.

 

You misinterpret what I said,

 

firstly I dont think MM is going to do something or not do something simply because he feels a bit pi%%ed of with a few people. He will act and realise product, for which he feels there is demand and therefore money to be made. Thats right and proper in a market economy

 

what helps the Irish modelling community is to increasingly develop finer representations of Irish railway models in all its senses , to " lift" our game as much as MM has. That ensures that this commercial suppliers are incentivised to create high quality models. Otherwise we decend back to repainting LIMA diesels.

 

If there is a consensus of opinion that their are issues with the MK2d super train, then its perfectly right that people should use this forum to vocalise their opinond , in a mannerly way.

 

I dont think PM is going too run off behind a bush and stop producing models, just to spite us !!!!!!!

[Junctionmad]

Very simple David, bleating on about defects with MM products on the forum hasnt had the desired effect - i.e an official response from Murphy Models. That's what people seem to want.

 

 

" Yet" maybe . all companies balance complaints against response , if the clamour gets enough a response will be made, if the clamour isn't enough, well its not real in the first place is it.

 

what MM can actually do of course is entirely a different issue.

[Junctionmad]

Can't help but wondering if MM should be doing a 22K next - at least then any kid could wonder in & buy something that he'd seen that week.

 

yes kid with about €300 to spend , mind you to accurately model the prototype would then only require , about two points, a signal and lots of heaps of model ballast .. hmmmmm

 

given that the " kids" are not major customers in this hobby anymore, I suspect the 22K would have a very limited audience

[iarnrod]

Well, it hasnt worked so far in this instance, has it?

 

And what you're saying is that it's best that Murphy Models reputation is damaged? Well that's going to help the Irish modelling community, isnt it?

 

 

In all the customer service training that I've received down the years, you are always thought that a complaint is like gold. You can choose to either act on or ignore a complaint. However, ignoring a complaint tends to lead to people not parting with their cash for your product/service down the road.

 

MM in not publicly acknowledging the issues with the Supertrain Mk2s is damaging their own reputation.

 

Even, Bachmann have come out and acknowledged issues with their models in the past, and if I remember correctly, have even gone so far as to recall models that were not up to scratch and send them back to China. Reference to this can be found over on RMWEB.

 

MM can either acknowledge that an issue exists and publicly announce measures they will take to deal with the issue, or be left with a large stock of unsold Supertrain Mk2's.

[Noel]

We cannot expect that a customer base of about 300 in Ireland and some 100-200 elsewhere will sustain high quality RTR in the future. Models are getting significantly more expensive as labour costs rise in China, hence we have to except that the economics of RTR may infact not work anymore for this niche . MM tapped into a desire at a time and place, and many went out and bought vast arrays of models, such that they are unlikely to buy these volumes again. Hence , I suspect we may never see any more RTR of that ilk.

 

Yes fair comment, but its interesting the volume of new MM products released and sold during the recession over the past 7 years. The baby GMs didn't really hit the high street proper until after Lehman Brothers!!! That's a fair achievement to shift that much product in such harsh economic times. I suspect there is more capacity in the Irish RTR market than we might give it credit for, but as you say on the other hand there was a 'catch up wave' yearning for genuine Irish models that may have been largely satisfied to date.

[Junctionmad]

In all the customer service training that I've received down the years, you are always thought that a complaint is like gold. You can choose to either act on or ignore a complaint. However, ignoring a complaint tends to lead to people not parting with their cash for your product/service down the road.

 

MM in not publicly acknowledging the issues with the Supertrain Mk2s is damaging their own reputation.

 

Even, Bachmann have come out and acknowledged issues with their models in the past, and if I remember correctly, have even gone so far as to recall models that were not up to scratch and send them back to China. Reference to this can be found over on RMWEB.

 

MM can either acknowledge that an issue exists and publicly announce measures they will take to deal with the issue, or be left with a large stock of unsold Supertrain Mk2's.

 

MM is in a difficult position, If you publicly acknowledge an issue then you confirm its existence to your potential customer base. You then come under pressure to seek to resolve the issue. Such resolution may be financially difficult to do and may in fact be impossible to do anything about. Now you haver a public dispute

 

If you remain in private, you may either dealt with " those that shout loudest" etc , or in fact do nothing.

 

IN reality this is a captive market, what else are you going to buy if you want Mk2ds.

 

The colour argument is nonsense anyway, if you cant live with it, factor in the cost of a professional respray. Now its just €100 to get a mk2d etc etc

 

window placements etc are another issue all together, as are quality of build etc . ( some of which can be fixed)

 

as I say its not like were spoiled for choice

[Junctionmad]

Yes fair comment, but its interesting the volume of new MM products released and sold during the recession over the past 7 years. The baby GMs didn't really hit the high street proper until after Lehman Brothers!!! That's a fair achievement to shift that much product in such harsh economic times. I suspect there is more capacity in the Irish RTR market than we might give it credit for, but as you say on the other hand there was a 'catch up wave' yearning for genuine Irish models that may have been largely satisfied to date.

 

I think, Noel, and you have pointed this out before , there was a build up of latent demand for good irish stock of all types. When the 141 etc appeared, there seemingly was a rush to buy multiple units way in excess of what was needed on the layout. This was partly a desire to " capture " the market by " collectors " who thought that these would be " worth a fortune " in years to come. In reality many layouts dont need more then 3 or 4 of any type of loco and many need just one or two. This purchase activity was clearly not replayed for 071, 201 or other releases in the same way

 

The fact is that outside of the 141 ( and these are still available ) there is reasonable stock of MM around the trade m you can walk in and get 071,201, cravens, MK2d etc will little difficulty, even if you cant get an exact livery ( livery is really irrelevant anyway , as if you really want it, you can have it resprayed)

 

Therefor it clear there isn't a bottomless pit of demand, especially as prices have risen significantly, its one thing paying 80 euros, but at 200-250 or more for locos, thats an awful lot of dough flying around on the PECO. This is before you've added carriages and wagons , again at expensive prices, you could easily have 10K tied up in stock. Thats not mass market

[iarnrod]

MM is in a difficult position, If you publicly acknowledge an issue then you confirm its existence to your potential customer base. You then come under pressure to seek to resolve the issue. Such resolution may be financially difficult to do and may in fact be impossible to do anything about. Now you haver a public dispute

 

If you remain in private, you may either dealt with " those that shout loudest" etc , or in fact do nothing.

 

IN reality this is a captive market, what else are you going to buy if you want Mk2ds.

 

The colour argument is nonsense anyway, if you cant live with it, factor in the cost of a professional respray. Now its just €100 to get a mk2d etc etc

 

window placements etc are another issue all together, as are quality of build etc . ( some of which can be fixed)

 

as I say its not like were spoiled for choice

 

The existence of the issue is well known to every modeller.

 

Not selling a load of incorrectly liveried Supertrain Mk2 models is also a financial headache.

 

The colour argument is clearly an issue for a lot of people, as has been displayed on this site, and other sites. If you pay €56 for a coach, you expect it to be correct. You shouldn't have to factor in the cost of a respray. Not everyone can afford to pay €100 to get a proper looking CIE liveried coach.

 

I am led to believe that there are huge stocks of these coaches unsold, so clearly a lot of people have an issue with them.

[Junctionmad]

I am led to believe that there are huge stocks of these coaches unsold, so clearly a lot of people have an issue with them.

 

Clearly that in itself will be the biggest motivator to do something, However as before, I believe its the trade carrying the stock not MM

[David]

Very simple David, bleating on about defects with MM products on the forum hasnt had the desired effect - i.e an official response from Murphy Models. That's what people seem to want.

 

Too early to say I'm afraid. You may well find that all the 'bleating' will make MM put an extra procedure in place to ensure that the next model, if there is one, is totally up to par quality-wise.

 

I think we can forget about getting a public acknowledgement from MM. I doubt they'd be willing to do that as they'd be shooting themselves in the foot as regards shifting the remaining stock.

 

I'd like to add that I have actually purchased some ST mk2s and there is nothing on mine that would make them not fit for sale.

[WRENNEIRE]

If anyone has any issues with the ST coaches they can be returned for a full refund

When there is a resolution to the current problem I will post it here, it is currently on going and there are still issues to be solved

Just remember the issues only came to light after MM had paid in full for the coaches to be shipped to Ireland

What arrived was not what was ordered

There is an awful lot of work going on from MM's side to resolve this issue but it seems to be one way

No stupid assumptions girls, when there is a resolution you will be informed

[Railer]

IN reality this is a captive market, what else are you going to buy if you want Mk2ds.

 

The colour argument is nonsense anyway, if you cant live with it, factor in the cost of a professional respray. Now its just €100 to get a mk2d etc etc

 

window placements etc are another issue all together, as are quality of build etc . ( some of which can be fixed)

 

as I say its not like were spoiled for choice

 

Hornby have they new Mk2Ds on the market that are cheaper but I don't know what the build quality is like. If you were pushed you get one of them and sprayed for less than the cost of an as new ST Mk2D. Not telling people to do this but it's an option. It's a pity the STs ended up the way they did as it puts doubts about the quality of any future IR Mk2s. Even the latest 201s had odd small font numbers and a noticable livery error on the NIR 201s. Stuff that was no issue on earlier releases now is.

 

I know we can't expect PM himself to sit in the factory and watch them actually make the things but could we suggest that the customer base can examine pre production models and give active feed back before pulling the trigger on a 500pc run that people don't want to buy but are stuck with no other option.

[iarnrod]

If anyone has any issues with the ST coaches they can be returned for a full refund

When there is a resolution to the current problem I will post it here, it is currently on going and there are still issues to be solved

Just remember the issues only came to light after MM had paid in full for the coaches to be shipped to Ireland

What arrived was not what was ordered

There is an awful lot of work going on from MM's side to resolve this issue but it seems to be one way

No stupid assumptions girls, when there is a resolution you will be informed

 

Thanks for the update, Wrenn. It's good to hear that.

 

However, my own personal feeling on the issue is that such an update should be on the MM website, and not coming from dealers of MM products.