Interesting not-so-early Irish Railway photos

[jhb171achill]

3 minutes ago, GSWR 90 said:

Ireland's most glorious diesel loco, G613 at Heuston, 1962, from the O'Dea Collection. 

But what is it pulling? A carriage (no underfloor engine) with a window and lights at the end? Not a Bulleid AEC, not one of the Park Royals converted to driving trailers for the Waterford and Tramore – what is it?

Possibly one of the 1900-series brake thirds of early CIE (immediately pre-laminate) days? Several later GSR and earlier CIE types had windows in the guard's end. It is seen shunting, obviously; next to this are two early repaints into black'n'tan - a laminate and a Park Royal. Three bogies was their maximum load for work like this. Overall, as shunters in a place like Kingsbridge or Westland Row, they were about as useful as a chocolate teapot! However, there is plenty of evidence they tried them on a number of types of work - even the Limerick - Foynes mixed, which must hold a record of some sort for distance travelled with a service train (and a mixed at that) with a small shunting engine.....

The modeller will note, of course, there's a "prototype for everything"!

[Mol_PMB]

1906 or 1907, one of the AEC ‘mules’. See also Ernie’s thread. 

[exciecoachbuilder]

Hi guys.

I remember a coach in the carriage shop in the mid/late 70's? that had brake and driving controls at one end, and very cramped looking too.I thought that it was very unusual at the time. Could it be this coach?

The railway back then had a few oddities, including a full kitchen car. No seats just cooking facilities. It was no doubt an old carriage because of the really old style buffers on it.

It's a shame that with all the Irish railway books and photographs, that there are very few photos of coach interiors. The photographers back then didn't seem too interested in taking coach interiors. Maybe they couldn't gain access? I don't know?

                                             Paul.

[Mol_PMB]

35 minutes ago, exciecoachbuilder said:

Hi guys.

I remember a coach in the carriage shop in the mid/late 70's? that had brake and driving controls at one end, and very cramped looking too.I thought that it was very unusual at the time. Could it be this coach?

The railway back then had a few oddities, including a full kitchen car. No seats just cooking facilities. It was no doubt an old carriage because of the really old style buffers on it.

It's a shame that with all the Irish railway books and photographs, that there are very few photos of coach interiors. The photographers back then didn't seem too interested in taking coach interiors. Maybe they couldn't gain access? I don't know?

                                             Paul.

Yes, that would have been 1906 or 1907, or possibly 1408 if it was a Park Royal. They were CIE's three AEC driving trailers. 

1907 hung around with preserved 184 for a while at Inchicore in the early 1970s, but was later completely destroyed in a crash. 1906 lasted longer. Some more info here:

And here:

 

The elderly kitchen cars were GSWR 1130, DSER 29D, and GNR 272N. All survived into the 1960s.

Here's 1130 (Ernie photo):

Earlier seen in green here:

272N (IRRS photo):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53508810174

29D (IRRS photo):

https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53506782108

 

[exciecoachbuilder]

Thanks for the info Mol. Some great stuff to read through there.

Cheers,  Paul..

 

[jhb171achill]

29D was a highly unusual (and very obviously noticeable) survivor….

[Mol_PMB]

40 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

29D was a highly unusual (and very obviously noticeable) survivor….

The old kitchen cars were allocated to the Radio Trains and other all-in tours, until replaced by 2403 and 2407 in the mid 1960s. 

They could serve meals to over 400 covers (i.e. the whole train).

There had originally been a plan to build 1 kitchen car and 2 dining cars in the 1950/1 carriage build programme, but the programme was delayed and they were cancelled - hence the gap in numbering between 2401 and 2405, which was partly filled in the 1960s by 2402 and 2403, but 2404 remained a blank forever.

Instead of the planned new kitchen car, 1130 was converted from a GSWR third to a kitchen car in 1952.

There's a lot of correspondence about this in the IRRS archives.

 

 

[Mayner]

On 6/6/2026 at 6:58 AM, jhb171achill said:

 Overall, as shunters in a place like Kingsbridge or Westland Row, they were about as useful as a chocolate teapot! However, there is plenty of evidence they tried them on a number of types of work - even the Limerick - Foynes mixed, which must hold a record of some sort for distance travelled with a service train (and a mixed at that) with a small shunting engine.....

The modeller will note, of course, there's a "prototype for everything"!

There was an interesting article on G Class from a drivers perspective by "Spare Link" in a GSRPS ? 1980s newsletter. Apparently a G611 was once rostered to a "Guinness Shunt" at Heuston Goods to the annoyance of staff "do they think this is Duffy's Circus" (hadn't a great reputation at the time) , at one time a G611 emerged from the Phoenix Park tunnel hauling a pair of Cement Bubbles and a Brake then dropped its transmission on the climb from Islandbridge Junction to Inchacore. Possibly G611 Class rostered to heavy duties during the periodic loco shortages during mid-late 60s.

The G601 Class was originally introduced with the "experimental" re-opening of the Banagher, Castleisland and Newmarket branches to regular good traffic, all three lines had closed to regular traffic in 1947?  One of the ideas apparently floated was 'one man" operation, (possibly driver only of short unfitted goods?)

While the Clara G Class appears to have been restricted  primarily for working the Branch goods- (22 mile distance) & shunting at Clara (2 goods yards, 2 private sidings), the Castleisland and Newmarket branches are likely to have involved an element or main line working. Castleisland goods likely to be worked by a Tralee based G Class with the branch goods running through from Tralee. Similarly the G that worked the Newmarket branch may have been based at Mallow, with the branch goods running through along the Kerry Road between Mallow & Banteer.

Spare Link wrote about the G611 that replaced a Midland Tank at Liffey Junction (1961-2?) working Edenderry Cattle specials (monthly?) from Liffey Junction (51? miles) and the final cattle special to Drumree on the Meath Line (track considered unsafe for anytrhing heavier.  The Drumree special apparently received an exemption to load to 17 wagons (being the final train), the transmission overheated on the climb fromk Liffey Jnt to Clonsilla where it stopped to allow time to cool. Loco dropped its wagons by the cattle banks at Drumree then ran to Kilmessan to pick up a wagon. Shunting was challenging at Kilmessan and Drumree on account of the grass grown state of the track, apparently on the return journey  the crew needed the help of some locals to push the loco and cattle wagons from the cattle bank road at Drumree to the main line rails were that slippy, train and crew eventually made it back to Liffey Junction.

CIEs use of the G Class for branch line goods & main line "trip workings" was not unlike British Rails use of its 204hp 03/04 "shunters" while CIEs E Class and BR 08 mainly used for heavy shunting and short distance trip working.

Interestingly in this part of the World small shunting locos were once widely used (operated by a member of station staff (not a driver) for shunting small/medium goods yards, speeding up service trains by minimising the time spent by main-line loco and crew shunting. These days small shunters are still widely used shunting private sidings at large industrial sites, main line loco & crew simply drop off and collect train of wagons.

 

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

3 minutes ago, Mayner said:

Castleisland goods likely to be worked by a Tralee based G Class with the branch goods running through from Tralee. Similarly the G that worked the Newmarket branch may have been based at Mallow, with the branch goods running through along the Kerry Road between Mallow & Banteer.

I think that in the late 1950s and early 1960s, Tralee had two 'small' pilots, which included a J26 (usually 560) and G602. Between them they worked the goods yards and carriage shunts, as well as the Castleisland and Fenit branches. There are several photos of G602, 560 and 559 at Fenit and at Tralee. There were also some C class shedded at Tralee, mainly for the trains to Cork (and Valentia prior to closure), which could also take a turn on either freight branch if the traffic justified it. The Dublin and North Kerry passenger services were normally railcars at this time. 

However, I have never seen a photo of a G601 class at Mallow in that time period. G601 was allocated to Banteer-Kanturk-Newmarket at the time, and there are plenty of photos of it on the branch but not elsewhere. Maybe it was stabled on the branch.

If anyone does have photos of G class in service at Mallow (not GSRPS era) then I would be very interested to see them!

[jhb171achill]

19 minutes ago, Mayner said:

While the Clara G Class appears to have been restricted  primarily for working the Branch goods- (22 mile distance) & shunting at Clara (2 goods yards, 2 private sidings), the Castleisland and Newmarket branches are likely to have involved an element or main line working. Castleisland goods likely to be worked by a Tralee based G Class with the branch goods running through from Tralee. Similarly the G that worked the Newmarket branch may have been based at Mallow, with the branch goods running through along the Kerry Road between Mallow & Banteer.

 

"Spare Link" (aka the well known Mr Reneghan!) was a great source of interesting stories, from a driver's perspective. 

Since you mention the above, I am sure that I have seen a picture somewhere of a "G" at Mallow......  they made it onto the DSER too.

On the DCDR they have proved to be very versatile. In the early 2000s G613 was regularly on the then-regular PW and "Work" trains, and all three that are there (611, 13 & 17) have also seen passenger service and extensive shunting. Despite mixed opinions of them here, across mainland Europe very many derivatives of the same class, some almost exact copies of the G's here, have given long, reliable and faithful service to their owners. 

The fact that several variants of basically the same design were produced from 1951 into the mid 1980s certainly says something.

A RTR one would probably be a good idea. Models of small versatile shunters of British and mainland European countries always seem to sell well in their own markets. A good "starter" loco for someone just starting out in the hobby. In our case, of course, there are few alive today who ever saw one operating in traffic, and there were only seven of them (and three 601s)...

9 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

If anyone does have photos of G class in service at Mallow (not GSRPS era) then I would be very interested to see them!

I'm pretty sure I've seen a pic of one at Mallow, though I have absolutely no idea where, and I don't know what it was doing there - possibly delivered there for shunting the beet sidings?

[Mol_PMB]

6 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I'm pretty sure I've seen a pic of one at Mallow, though I have absolutely no idea where, and I don't know what it was doing there - possibly delivered there for shunting the beet sidings?

That's an interesting point. Did any of the G611s work at CSE Mallow? I know there were several at Thurles, and I think one each at Carlow and Tuam. Mallow I think mostly used Rustons and the Sugar Puffs.

 

There must have been odd occasions when they passed through Mallow en route to Banteer and Tralee. I do plan to model one for Quartertown Mill eventually, but I have no evidence they actually worked that branch.

[jhb171achill]

I’ve never been impressed with any of the “G” class models or even kits I’ve seen. The wheelbase and wheel diameter is usually quite wrong, and the body shapes on some aren’t great. The RTR Silverfox ones were (almost inevitably) slightly to totally wrong in livery terms. 

However, if a decent RTR ever appears, count me in!

Edited Sunday at 20:04 by jhb171achill

[GSWR 90]

36 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I’ve never been impressed with any of the “G” class models or even kits I’ve seen. The wheelbase and wheel diameter is usually quite wrong, and the body shapes on some aren’t great. The RTR Silverfox ones were (almost inevitably) slightly to totally wrong in livery terms. 

However, if a decent RTR ever appears, count me in!

I hope IRM don't start making G class models. I would be financially ruined.

[Mol_PMB]

I’d have a few too, but I think my bank account would be more comprehensively drained by C class or AEC railcars. 

[Horsetan]

52 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

I’ve never been impressed with any of the “G” class models or even kits I’ve seen. The wheelbase and wheel diameter is usually quite wrong, and the body shapes on some aren’t great. ....

Not even the Judith Edge kit?

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, Horsetan said:

Not even the Judith Edge kit?

Is there one? 

[Horsetan]

Just now, Mol_PMB said:

Is there one? 

Ah wait....hang on....I might be confusing that with the Worsley Works kit....which Mike Edge built some years ago

[lucas]

There is the DC Kits resin one, which I believe Mike Edge created the masters for (possibly from the Worsley Works kit). It's a G611 just like the WW kit, while Silver Fox is a G601.

Not sure if they're still sold though. I have an unbuilt one lying around somewhere here...

[Mol_PMB]

I have a WW etch, but it didn’t come with any chassis parts. Having compared it to drawings, it’s moderately close but some of the proportions are a bit out. I think it was designed from photos and a few measurements. 
In some ways it is a mix of the G601 and G611 designs. G611 windows but G601 handrails. G611 footplate but G601 lights (or lack thereof). The mainframes are very simplified. 

If IRM don’t get there first I might have a go, probably starting with a G601. But I’ve got too many projects in the queue already. 
 

[lucas]

I found it lying around in the bottom of my stash. It does have lights and recessed cab handrails (or at least the recesses, the handrails themselves aren't included). No chassis of course; it has mounting for a Black Beetle/Tenshodo motor bogie, but that's not the most suitable chassis for a slow running shunter.

I don't have the drawings so I can't speak on the accuracy, not sure if they're available somewhere? 

I have had some vague plans of building one in 7mm scale at some point and have mostly just been keeping this little guy around as a reference/reminder.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Horsetan said:

Not even the Judith Edge kit?

I didn’t know they did one! Must have a look!

[Mol_PMB]

8 hours ago, lucas said:

I found it lying around in the bottom of my stash. It does have lights and recessed cab handrails (or at least the recesses, the handrails themselves aren't included). No chassis of course; it has mounting for a Black Beetle/Tenshodo motor bogie, but that's not the most suitable chassis for a slow running shunter.

I don't have the drawings so I can't speak on the accuracy, not sure if they're available somewhere? 

I have had some vague plans of building one in 7mm scale at some point and have mostly just been keeping this little guy around as a reference/reminder.

That looks quite neat. Mike must have done some additions and modifications to the etches to better represent the G611. 
Is there space between the frames for 21mm gauge wheelsets? (~25mm)

For the Irish ones I have only found basic diagrams, but I have better drawings for continental examples. Those are 1435mm gauge of course, so there might be some width differences, but I’m sure a lot of the parts were standardised. 

[Colonel]

I have a 7mm scale one, built from the Worsley etches. Modified it to a 601, though how accurate it is am not sure. Construction is somewhere in my Work bench thread and it features on Northport Quay.

[Mol_PMB]

9 minutes ago, Colonel said:

I have a 7mm scale one, built from the Worsley etches. Modified it to a 601, though how accurate it is am not sure. Construction is somewhere in my Work bench thread and it features on Northport Quay.

I like yours and I was considering doing the same in 4mm scale. 
Then I thought it would be easier to do a fresh etch for the cab, and I need a chassis, and then I realised that some new mainframes would be a good idea, and so it would be better just to start afresh with designing a whole new etch! And then the job became too big and ended up on the round tuit pile. Such is the fate of many of my projects I’m afraid. 

[lucas]

6 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Is there space between the frames for 21mm gauge wheelsets? (~25mm)

Yes, the frames are spaced with 25mm between

[Mol_PMB]

Whilst looking for something else on an old hard disc backup, I found some of my photos of a legendary railtour, the 'Chunkrail Challenger'. Thought they might be of interest or bring back memories. This was almost 20 years ago, the route was Waterford to Sligo and back via Rosslare and it was a long old trip. There were 4 different pairs of baby GMs involved. The Cravens had mostly been withdrawn by this stage, so the train was formed of 'coffin' Mk2 stock.

Details from sixbellsjunction / Niall Kelly:

8th July 2006

Ian Walsh
The Chunkrail Challenger

Locos Used    IE: 124, 134, 141, 142, 177, 181 & 192
Stock Used    IE mk2d rake
Route:

Locos    Route
134 + 124    Waterford - Dublin Connolly [P2]
177 + 141    Dublin Connolly [P2] - Sligo
181 + 192    Sligo - Dublin Connolly [P5]
134 + 142    Dublin Connolly [P5] - Rosslare Strand
142 + 134    Rosslare Strand - Waterford

 

Hopefully one day, the RPSI will be able to offer us baby GM haulage on the main line again!

 

[Mol_PMB]

I don't know what strings had to be pulled to get all these locos, but you will note that they were paired up in as follows:

124 + 134 (last two survivors of the 121s)

141 + 177 (first and last of the 141 class)

181 + 192 (first and last of the 181 class)

142 + 134 (I think this was meant to be 124 + 134 again, but 124 had failed so was replaced with the nearest alternative)

[Mol_PMB]

In a similar vein, this was an RPSI 'Mince Pie Special' in late December 2007, and here's 186 at Whitehead excursion platform with a direct train to Dublin Connolly:

171* did the shunt release in Dublin, and after a bit of a chance to stretch our legs, 4 took us back north:

Both locos put in a superb performance, I think the driver must have hung his coat over the speedometer...

 

* the diesel, not another kettle!