StevieB Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 One of the things that sets the railways of Ireland apart from those in Great Britain, apart from the obvious gauge difference, is the lack of heavy industry providing traffic for the railways. However, it wasn't until a copy of Rails Through the West landed on my lap, that I realised just how big Irish Sugar was and just how much traffic it produced for the railways…. this was more like I was used to. And because of the lack of heavy industry, there was also a lack of industrial diesel locomotives. Irish Sugar had its Rustons, Guinness had a Hudswell Clarke and Irish Shell had a Hibberd, but was there anything else? Stephen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Distillery sidings and locos were big in Scotland, all we had was Allmans Distillery. It had a total of 2 x 5' 3'' steam locos during its existance, one was sold to the GSR. Courtalds (sp?) up North had pair of 5'3'' Pecketts. CSE Carlow had a couple of unusual and camera shy Cockerill VB locos. The beet factories used hire some of the G class Deutzs from CIE from time to time. Edited January 20, 2014 by minister_for_hardship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Irish Sugar also used ex-CIÉ G class (Deutz) diesels... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawfin Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Poor 615... The sugar G that got away! I think there were two types of CSET Ruston..? The small ones like the one at Whitehead etc., and the larger Westrail one (one-off?) that got cut up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Yes, the Tuam one was a monster. Got burnt out in the shed in Tuam sometime in the late 90s or early 00s and cut up there. Last time I saw it, the doors were wide open in the shed and no soul around. Fairly easy for the vandals to do their dirty work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawfin Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 A few coaches were in that fire, too, I believe. Only cut up in 2005, I think - why keep it so long? Where was it, since Westrail was long gone by then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DERAILED Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 CSE didn't hire the G-class, they purchased them. G613 at Tuam, G611, 615, 616, and 617 at Thurles. G611 was later 'lent' to CIE to shunt the wagon works at Limerick but this local arrangement caused ructions when news reached the the powers that be at Inchicore. The Rustons held sway at Carlow and Mallow CSE factories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 CSE didn't hire the G-class, they purchased them. G613 at Tuam, G611, 615, 616, and 617 at Thurles. G611 was later 'lent' to CIE to shunt the wagon works at Limerick but this local arrangement caused ructions when news reached the the powers that be at Inchicore. The Rustons held sway at Carlow and Mallow CSE factories. I'm 99.9% sure that a pic taken of a G at Thurles for sugar work in Maher's book had 'on hire from CIE' in the caption. Maybe CSE hired them when their own stud were under pressure at peak times and offered to buy when CIE had no more use for them, the branches they were designed to serve being closed down for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawfin Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I'm pretty sure that the last withdrawal was 617 in 1977, then they they went to CSE afterwards. The ITG's website supports this, too: http://www.irishtractiongroup.com/ITG_locos/loco_617.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 The sugar co. did indeed hire them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The industrial locos tended to be off the peg standard designs, most of the industrial steam and diesel locos are available in kit form from Judith Edge and Agenoria. A number of grain mills, factories and oil depots had private siding that could have justified their own locos. Ballysodare, Clara, North City Mills and Portarington once had quite extensive sidings serving mills and other industries requiring a pilot loco for several hours daily Cold Chon used to use a converted Scammell truck for shunting bitumen wagons at Oranmore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josefstadt Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Cold Chon used to use a converted Scammell truck for shunting bitumen wagons at Oranmore Funny you should mention that John. I just came across the attached picture in the April 1977 edition of CIÉ's staff newspaper 'Nuacht' 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 (edited) Must be the one that's in Dromod, in a very poor state now. Come to think of it, think CIE had a few converted farm tractors as shunters in various places. Don't think they had flanged wheels though. Edited January 21, 2014 by minister_for_hardship Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Minister, that is indeed the Dromod one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Holman Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Cement is heavy, though the plants were not necessarily large. Somewhere in the back of my mind lurks a thought that there were a couple of Sentinels bought by CIE to shunt the factory near Limerick? For those of us working in 7mm scale, there is the option of ready to run as Skytrex produced a model a few years ago, while Walsworthmodels models will build you one for just £150. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawfin Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Does this count? http://www.flickr.com/photos/nlireland/5736907701/# Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The sentinels were steam powered things... Have seen pics of them somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 This lad? http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/171-Dapol-Sentinel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Tis the one, Bosk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BosKonay Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 GSR (Ireland) SENTINEL locomotive No. 1, Great Southern Railways, Ireland. Rly Mag., 1928, 62, 134. illus. Illustration—no text. GSR Class 280 M1 WN 6846-7/1927. RN 280-1. 2ft 6in driving wheels (chain coupled). 6¾ x 9in cylinders; 5.1ft2 grate area and 71ft2 total heating surface. They had several braking systems: steam, hand, counter pressure and vacuum and were very similar to the Sentinel railcars. Clements and McMahon (pp. 257-8). They were sent initially to Cork and Tralee, and one was tried on the Castleisland branch. They both were then sent to Limerick where they worked the Market siding until in closed in 1940. They then remained out of use until withdrawn in 1948 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawfin Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The NCC had a similar one, too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunluce Castle Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 The NCC ordered one off the same company but the difference was that the NCC had 2 side windows while the model and the rest have 1 side window. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Strange that (GSR) Sentinels only lasted in active service up to 1940, considering their modernity, doing much the same kind of work the G class would do later on. The railcar version was known to be loathed by crews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riversuir226 Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Irish steel had its own system, shannonvale albeit horse power only, Waterford foundry had its own long siding for rail traffic which was used till the 1970's. Ifi Shelton Abbey and to a smaller extent Marino point in Cork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Strange that (GSR) Sentinels only lasted in active service up to 1940, considering their modernity, doing much the same kind of work the G class would do later on.The railcar version was known to be loathed by crews. Probably lack of work and difficulty/cost of getting Sentinel parts from the UK during the Emergency, in the UK the LNER withdrew their Sentinel railcars around the same time though the locos remained in service into BR days. In the UK The Sentinels seem to have been most successful in industrial use being built up to the late 50s many were converted into diesels in the 1960s by Thomas Hill. Apart from Derry and Dublin the railway companies shunted the ports Londonderry Harbour Comissioners had pair of 0-6-0 saddle tanks both now preserved, Dublin Port & Docks Board used road tractors on the Alexandra Rd Tramway The NCC, County Down & GNR shunted Belfast docks, the BCDR & GNR building special 0-6-4T with cut down cabs and boiler fittings for Belfast. The NCC & UTA used a small feet of almost steam outline Harland & Wolffe diesel shunters around the docks, in Cork the GSR & CIE used a motley collection of ex T&C loco and small industrial locos to reach parts the ex West Cork, GSWR & Midland tanks could not reach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Hardly any private sidings in Ireland Just a few that sprang to mind Cadbury Rathmore private siding sent out a substantial until closure in the Mid 70s with a daily trip working from Mallow. Kerry County Council 1/2 mile private siding Lixnaw handled bitumen until closure o the North Kerry. Cahir Abbey Siding Tipperary County Council bitumen traffic. Webb Mill Mallow grain later bitumen. ESB Kilbarry, Ardnacrusha & Portarligton Thurles private down tailing siding at North end of station lasted until ctc disappeared behind a high stone wall! Farranfore private siding opened mid 70s serving co-operative trainload fertiliser. Waterford: Clover Meats down side Rosslare line Abbey Junction. Bell Lines Frank Cassin? Wharf Abbey Junction R H Hall Grain Elevator North Wharf. Waterford Harbour Commissioners North Warf. Belview Campile: Co-op siding New Ross: Albatross Fertiliser & Wharf siding opened mid 1960s: Athy: Tegral Blessington Dorans Pit (DBST) Jobestown: De Selby Quarry (DBST) Blessington Road: Tallagh Airfield(DBST) Enniscorthy: St Johns Siding (mill?) Rathnew: Brickworks sidings. Wicklow Junction: Fertiliser works & Veha radiators Wicklow: Harbour tramway. Portarlington Odlums Mill Portaoise Private siding up main south of station mill or feed merchants? Clara: Ranks grain mill (2 sidings bulk grain 1930s onwards) Cara: Goodbodys Jute Mill Galway: Dock Branch MGWR? Leney Brickworks Ballisodare: Pollexfen Mill 1870-1975? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Fenit Harbour Commisioners had a privately owned loco for a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garfield Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Fenit Harbour Commisioners had a privately owned loco for a bit. I think they also had one or two self-propelled steam cranes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minister_for_hardship Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Hardly any private sidings in Ireland Weirdly, some quite large industries were slap bang next to a railway line or within spitting distance, but carted everything laboriously to and from the nearest station. Like they were allergic to them or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 North City Mills, shunted by GSR / CIE; Courtaulds, Carrickfergus - had three steam locos of their own. Guinness was of course a special case, with 5ft 3 and narrow gaugeas well... Achill Island had two 2ft gauge lines it two quarries. One had two steam locos and the other was horse worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jawfin Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 Derry Port and Harbour Commissioner had a few, No. 1 (at Cultra), I presume a No. 2, and No. 3, "R. H. Smyth," (Harvey). Did the LPHC any more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted January 22, 2014 Share Posted January 22, 2014 I think the three was their lot, Jawfin. The one in Cultra is in the original LPHC livery, somewhat darker than "Harvey" at Whitehead has. I remember when "Harvey" first arrived and it was that darker colour. The RPSI painted it the mid green it is now (and well it looks) but it didn't run like that. I don't know much about No. 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 A few more I forgot: The distinction between railway owned and private becomes a bit blurred Tivoli and most of the mine sidings appear to have been railway owned maintained and shunted by company locos Tivoli: Texaco siding. Burmah Oil. Roofchrome (Pitzer Cork Harbour Board, the Harbour Board siding was an extension of the Roofchrome siding after the Quigley Magnesite workings ceased. Foynes: Esso Oil tank farm in area later used for stockpiling coal. Siding to tank farm on down side. Both closed following opening of Whitegate Refinery. Harbour siding off turntable on to pier at Western end of station. Fertiliser Factory siding (late 1950s) sharply curved extension of main running line across road and into factory at Western end of station. Premier Molasses & Avonmore grain extension of Mogul release road 1980s. Drumshanbo (C&L) Campbells store Derrenavoggey (C&L) (Arigna mines) Wolfhill Deerpark Silvermines Tara. Dublin Port: Merchants Warehousing East Wall Road Donnelly's coal yard Lr Sherriff St. City of Dublin Steam Packet Company (Sidings West side of Spencers Dock) Gouldings Fetilisers later Coal Distributers 1st siding off Alexandra Rd Tramway Irish Shell & BP Texaco ESSO Irish Bitumen Distibutors Asahi B&I R&H Hall Alexandra Basin Tara Dublin Port Common User Terminal The trend away from private sidings appears to be reversing with the like of Daventry in the UK and Dublin Port. On a smaller scale some industries still use small 0-4-0 shunters for positioning wagons for loading and making up trains for collection. The Hornby Sentinel diesel http://www.hornby.com/shop/locomotives/dcc-ready-locomotives/r3178-ncb-4wdm-0-4-0-sentinel-industrial-shunter/ would not look out of place shunting in an industrial setting from the 1960s to the present. Maybe if Dublin Port had gone for locos rather than tractors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 The diminutive Irish Shell diesel and one of the Sugar Company Rustons are at Whitehead. Industrial locos were few in Ireland compared with Britain or elsewhere, but a disproportionate amount, even of steam, remain in preservation! Derry Nos. 1 & 2, Guinness No. 3, Sugar Nos. 1 & 3.... On the narrow gauge, several Guinness steam and diesel both here and in GB.... Then there's the whole Bord na Mona story, along with that of other turf lines, the ESB, and Ardnacrusha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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