Irish Heavy Industry

[minister_for_hardship]

Wonder did any of the Shannon Hydro Scheme locos survive into preservation? There was enough of them knocking around.

[jhb171achill]

I'm unaware of any, Minister.

[Jawfin]

Does anyone know anything about this little thing?

Even though it's at Cork Loco Depot, I would've thought that it was too small for shunting locos, so maybe it was built by a private industry..?

[minister_for_hardship]

That was 'Pat', worked an elevated coal gantry on its lonesome.

Built by the GS&WR out of an old loco tender and odds and sods withdrawn by CIE in the 1960s.

You can just make out the lining from the time it was a tender.

[jhb171achill]

Never noticed the lining before! That is not only GSWR lining, it is PRE-1905 lining! Still showing sixty years later! A testament to the old heavy linseed and lead-based paints, not allowed nowadays by the health and safety police. This is why older painted things (pre 1965 or so) lasted much longer.

[Jawfin]

Thanks guys, very interesting.

[StevieB]

My original point got a lot of people going, producing lots of interesting detail about railed served industry, but it remains a fact that Ireland had very little heavy industry served by rail, only sugar!

Stephen

[DERAILED]

My original point got a lot of people going, producing lots of interesting detail about railed served industry, but it remains a fact that Ireland had very little heavy industry served by rail, only sugar!

Stephen

 

NET (Shelton Abbey and Marino Point); Irish Cement at Platin and Mungret... The fact is that due to a lack of natural resources i.e. iron ore and coal Ireland had very little heavy industry - period.

[Maitland]

Short article from the Industrial Railway Society, 1965 here: http://www.irsociety.co.uk/Archives/8/ireland.htm

[StevieB]

For three months at the end of every year the sugar factories were busy processing the locally harvested sugar beet. Two questions arise from this:

1) What happened for the rest of the year at the factories, and

2) What other traffic was there both to and from the factories?

Stephen

[Mayner]

The Irish Beet Factories are likely to have been sugar refineries capable of processing sugar all year round rather than during the campaign.

The beet would have been stored or processed to an intermediate stage for further processing at a later stage. This would have reduced plant, warehousing and inventory costs. Similar principals apply in the dairy and meat processing industries. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_refinery

Inward Traffic:

1. Coal: The CSE factories and Cement Limited both received Arigna coal by rail into the late 1950s

2. Lime: 

3. Beet:

Outward

1. Beet Pulp:  Transported in H Vans good photos of H Vans in empty beet trains in Rails Through North Kerry.

2. Refined sugar retail and commercial quantities: H vans until replaced by road transport.

Carlow Factory dispatched export sugar in 20X 8'6" container on 4w flat wagons in special trains during the early 70s, trains ran as out of gauge specials, containers loaded while on wagons in factory rather than Carlow goods yard.

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, StevieB said:

For three months at the end of every year the sugar factories were busy processing the locally harvested sugar beet. Two questions arise from this:

1) What happened for the rest of the year at the factories, and

2) What other traffic was there both to and from the factories?

Stephen

Dunno what they did IN the factory all year (played cards & drank tea?), but in terms of railway traffic, nothing.  Trucks all parked up, and until the mid 1970s used for general goods elsewhere.

[StevieB]

Thanks for that useful information.  It gives me the opportunity to operate prototypical trains to and from my imaginary Youghal sugar factory. Having read the link, would molasses have been a byproduct as well, or were they imported instead?

Stephen

[NIR]

If Tara Mines built a smelter and refined ingots on site then that would be heavy industry, otherwise I'm struggling.

[Mayner]

Courtaulds Carrickfergus, the four CSE Sugar Factories and the two NET/IFI fertiliser plants are probably the best examples of relatively modern large scale rail served manufacturing/process plants in Ireland.

The main drawback in trying to model such large scale operations is the the sheer amount of space required to model either the marshalling yard or manufacturing/processing plant and limited operation potential compared to the more compact  Victorian/Edwardian area operations such as Allman's Distillery in Bandon, and private sidings that served the milling industry and Ulster's Linen Industry.

In its heyday in the era before Prohibition Allman's Distillery would have received coal and malt (bagged) in open wagons and sent out the finished product in covered tramway with "Pat" and its predecessor shunting wagons within the distillery and along the private siding tramway to the main line connection at Bandon Station.

Similarly private sidings at stations such as Clara and Ballysodare generated a considerable volume of freight traffic, Clara was a particularly busy station in the wagon load era with private sidings serving Ranks Mill and the Goodbody textile factory which were shunted by a pilot loco (a G 601 in later years) that also worked the Banagher Goods The Goodbody mill received jute possibly in open wagons and dispatched the finished product in covered wagons. Ranks mill would have received grain in covered hoppers and possibly dispatched flour or animal feed in covered vans before the traffic was lost to rail.

It could be argued that CIE lost a lot of traffic to road with its fixation with fixed formation Liner Trains in the 70s, with large shippers such as Bord na Mona, the Irish Sugar Company, Cadburys and grain millers shifting to road transport following the closure of the majority of private sidings in the 70s. Although the sugar company continued to be a major shipper rail was used mainly for long haul traffic from South Wexford to Thurles and later Mallow and between North Kerry and Dundalk/Navan to the Tuam Factory with Carlow the most productive plant served exclusively by road.

 

[jhb171achill]

Polloxfen’s Mill sidings at Ballysodare is as perfect a modelling subject as you’d get.

Extremely short on space and compact, it lends itself perfectly to a small shunting layout. It had tight enough curves, and three-way points to assist.

And operated by normal main line locos....

[murphaph]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but the Athy Brickworks had a 400 yard siding which I presume was private, even if built by the railway. It's mentioned in this article:

https://www.kildare.ie/ehistory/index.php/athy-newspaper-article-on-the-industries-in-athy-in-1898/

The siding would have crossed the road into the factory about here I suppose:

https://goo.gl/maps/2KMeAG31Mic46Sbu9

[jhb171achill]

6 minutes ago, murphaph said:

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned but the Athy Brickworks had a 400 yard siding which I presume was private, even if built by the railway. It's mentioned in this article:

https://www.kildare.ie/ehistory/index.php/athy-newspaper-article-on-the-industries-in-athy-in-1898/

The siding would have crossed the road into the factory about here I suppose:

https://goo.gl/maps/2KMeAG31Mic46Sbu9

Yes, this was a siding off a short length of the erstwhile Athy - Ballylinan / Deerpark Collieries line, which never had a passenger service, only being built by the British government in the 1910s.

[murphaph]

Was the Ballylinan branch not the one that ran over the Barrow past the cement factory? The Brickworks was to the north of the town.

It seems Barry Carse wrote something about the brickworks siding. It was taken out of service over a century ago!

http://irishrailarchives.ie/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/IRRS_J192_2017_February_sample.pdf

Edited May 17, 2021 by murphaph

[jhb171achill]

Yes, it was - sorry, that’s the one I thought you meant. I missed the word “brickworks”!

[airfixfan]

On 17/5/2021 at 12:01 PM, Mayner said:

Courtaulds Carrickfergus, the four CSE Sugar Factories and the two NET/IFI fertiliser plants are probably the best examples of relatively modern large scale rail served manufacturing/process plants in Ireland.

The main drawback in trying to model such large scale operations is the the sheer amount of space required to model either the marshalling yard or manufacturing/processing plant and limited operation potential compared to the more compact  Victorian/Edwardian area operations such as Allman's Distillery in Bandon, and private sidings that served the milling industry and Ulster's Linen Industry.

In its heyday in the era before Prohibition Allman's Distillery would have received coal and malt (bagged) in open wagons and sent out the finished product in covered tramway with "Pat" and its predecessor shunting wagons within the distillery and along the private siding tramway to the main line connection at Bandon Station.

Similarly private sidings at stations such as Clara and Ballysodare generated a considerable volume of freight traffic, Clara was a particularly busy station in the wagon load era with private sidings serving Ranks Mill and the Goodbody textile factory which were shunted by a pilot loco (a G 601 in later years) that also worked the Banagher Goods The Goodbody mill received jute possibly in open wagons and dispatched the finished product in covered wagons. Ranks mill would have received grain in covered hoppers and possibly dispatched flour or animal feed in covered vans before the traffic was lost to rail.

It could be argued that CIE lost a lot of traffic to road with its fixation with fixed formation Liner Trains in the 70s, with large shippers such as Bord na Mona, the Irish Sugar Company, Cadburys and grain millers shifting to road transport following the closure of the majority of private sidings in the 70s. Although the sugar company continued to be a major shipper rail was used mainly for long haul traffic from South Wexford to Thurles and later Mallow and between North Kerry and Dundalk/Navan to the Tuam Factory with Carlow the most productive plant served exclusively by road.

 

Have just had an article published on the Courtaulds Railway at Carrickfergus with rare photos and a map in Wheels of Industry part 4.

Edited May 19, 2021 by airfixfan

[StevieB]

On 16/5/2021 at 12:08 PM, Mayner said:

The Irish Beet Factories are likely to have been sugar refineries capable of processing sugar all year round rather than during the campaign.

The beet would have been stored or processed to an intermediate stage for further processing at a later stage. This would have reduced plant, warehousing and inventory costs. Similar principals apply in the dairy and meat processing industries. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sugar_refinery

Inward Traffic:

1. Coal: The CSE factories and Cement Limited both received Arigna coal by rail into the late 1950s

2. Lime: 

3. Beet:

Outward

1. Beet Pulp:  Transported in H Vans good photos of H Vans in empty beet trains in Rails Through North Kerry.

2. Refined sugar retail and commercial quantities: H vans until replaced by road transport.

Carlow Factory dispatched export sugar in 20X 8'6" container on 4w flat wagons in special trains during the early 70s, trains ran as out of gauge specials, containers loaded while on wagons in factory rather than Carlow goods yard.

Coal and beet obviously arrived in open wagons but how did the lime arrive?

Stephen

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, StevieB said:

Coal and beet obviously arrived in open wagons but how did the lime arrive?

Stephen

 

 

Standard open wagons, I think, with tarpaulins.

[StevieB]

Thanks for that.

Stephen

[StevieB]

And finally, how would the lime and coal have been delivered and the beet pulp and refined sugar collected, in trainloads or wagonloads?

Stephen

[jhb171achill]

On 10/7/2021 at 10:09 AM, StevieB said:

And finally, how would the lime and coal have been delivered and the beet pulp and refined sugar collected, in trainloads or wagonloads?

Stephen

Largely wagonload.

With sugar beet, the pulp was going in the opposite direction to the beet, so a train of beet empties might have one or two laden "H" vans containing pulp going back to the farmers. On a laden beet train, the vans are returning empty. Vans containing pulp could also be in the consist of an ordinary goods train.

With lime, wagonload included in an ordinary goods train.

Coal was somewhat different - in the normal course of things, a wagon here or there in a goods train going to some coal merchant down the country from Belfast, Dublin or Cork. However, trains of all or mostly coal wagons left Deerpark and Wolfhill in the 1920s and 30s. And of course, the narrow gauge Arigna branch would have closed years before the rest of the C & L but for the Arigna Mines at Derreenavoggy, which produced coal trains on the C & L - the only bulk traffic the Irish narrow gauge ever had - until the end in March 1959.

[DartStation]

On 10/7/2021 at 10:09 AM, StevieB said:

And finally, how would the lime and coal have been delivered and the beet pulp and refined sugar collected, in trainloads or wagonloads?

Stephen

Back in the day we supplied sugar beet first to Tuam, when it closed then to Thurles and when Thurles closed toMallow, the beet to Tuam went by rail from Clara, but the beet we grew under contract went by Road to Thurles and finally Mallow.

Beetpulp was deliver back to the farm by lorry or collected from the rail siding at Tullamore station. Beetpulp was always in paper bags never loose when we grew beet at home in the midlands.

Hope this helps 

PR