Anyone tried a Dapol 52 under a Silverfox A Class?

[BosKonay]

Generally you can pop a Class 55 chassis under the Silverfox A... a Hornby Class 52 is also listed,.... wonder would the new Dapol offering work too?

 

From the Dapol spec, I like the sound of

 

5 pole Super Creep Motor for controlled pulling power and fine slow speed running

Directional light with internal cab light

DCC ready with provision for a PluX 21 pin decoder

 

Anyone tried a conversion?

[aclass007]

If this is the chassis from it, then I'd say the answer is no. This doesn't look like something that can be shortened to fit under the A class body too easily. But, Do more research. I might be totally wrong here!

 

http://www.dccsupplies.com/item-p-107487/class-52-chassis-oo-dapol-4z-003-001

[BosKonay]

Perhaps I'm confused but the silverfox site cites the hornby 52 as a donor chassis...

[aclass007]

Yes, but the chassis needs to be shortened considerably. This isn't a problem with the Hornby, as the pancake motor is positioned at one end of the loco, and the rest of the chassis is basically hollow.

[richrua]

if we could get a hands on look at the chassis it would be easy to judge. depends if it has that extended flywheel malarky i suppose. from the specs given i wouldnt mind finding out more. I got rid of an old lima chassis and replaced it with dcc ready hornby chassis class 55 last week. I have it running on dcc now. it is running very well at very slow speed. I have it creeping at scale 7mph. It is smooth too. Just not as sturdy or weighted as a murphy chassis.

[aclass007]

if we could get a hands on look at the chassis it would be easy to judge. depends if it has that extended flywheel malarky i suppose. from the specs given i wouldnt mind finding out more. I got rid of an old lima chassis and replaced it with dcc ready hornby chassis class 55 last week. I have it running on dcc now. it is running very well at very slow speed. I have it creeping at scale 7mph. It is smooth too. Just not as sturdy or weighted as a murphy chassis.

 

Do you have the weight block in it? Most Hornbys with the light pancake motor have a lump of metal in the centre of the chassis to add weight...

[Riversuir226]

Some of the uk lads done basically this with bachmann warship inners for their bo bo electrics and also the cl89's using bachmann cl 37's. Im pretty sure one of the lads done it too a c class on one of the old irish modelling sites.

Basically a new scratchbuilt floor would need to be built and then new bogie mounts built for the floor after that its only a matter of transplanting the motor and other bits to the new chassis. If the new dapol chassis proves to be not suitable why not use a heljan western instead?

I ve been looking to use this method to power my sulzer and a class but haven t got around to it yet.

[Riversuir226]

http://www.wellsgreen-tmd.co.uk/omwboct06.htm

[Warbonnet]

You'd need to give it some whack with an angle grinder. Having both a Dapol and Heljan Wizzo I'd say go for the Heljan, better runners. Not overly impressed with the Dapol one though it does look a better model on the outside.

 

There is another way though. I'm sure it will become apparent soon

[Mayner]

Good piece on putting two motor bogies in Hornby or Lima diesels http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/model_omwb101.html simpler than trying to shorten a metal chassis with central motor drive to the bogies.

 

The Lima Deltic bogie was close in overall length to the A Class.

[BosKonay]

There is another way though. I'm sure it will become apparent soon

 

Do tell?

[Horsetan]

Unless ye're really good at sawing up mazak, this is not a route I'd be trying. The Dapol 52 bogies/gear towers, motor and flywheels may be adapted, and the drive shafts will probably need shortening to fit inside the "A" shell, but the underframe and mazak internal casting are another matter altogether.

[Warbonnet]

Do tell?

 

All I can say is 'Watch This Space' for the moment while the creator works his evil genius.

[Noel]

Has anybody got a Silver Fox CIE/IE 001 (A) class running on a chassis with ALL wheel pickups?

 

If yes please advise which chassis and weither RTR or kil built 001.

 

I had a look at some of the SF 001 models at the show, lovely bodies, but they had traction tyres on the power bogie and therefore only had wheel pickups on one side of each bogie so won't run as smoothly over point work as more modern chassis.

 

Thanks

Noel

[Kirley]

All my A Class Loco run on double motor bogies, I used Class 55 chassis and motors, see Page 39 of my work bench.

[Noel]

All my A Class Loco run on double motor bogies, I used Class 55 chassis and motors, see Page 39 of my work bench.

 

Thanks Kirley. That seemed a good solution for extra power and traction, but if I read the thread correctly those Hornby 55 bogies don't have all wheel pickup due to traction tyres. I looking for a suitable chassis with ALL wheel pickup. If I understand correctly your A class now has pickups on one side only of each power bogie. I have peco insulfrog points, but MM locos with their all wheel pickups run perfectly even at crawl speed over the points, as do some of my Bachman steam locos that have all wheel pickups. I'd prefer to avoid having to use keep-alive decoders in an attempt to get an A class to run well at crawl speed over points. Due to the popularity of SF A class I'm hoping somebody has discovered a solution. Any idea what bachmann chassis are similar to MM for drive and pickup quality (eg MM071)?

[Mayner]

Thanks Kirley. That seemed a good solution for extra power and traction, but if I read the thread correctly those Hornby 55 bogies don't have all wheel pickup due to traction tyres. I looking for a suitable chassis with ALL wheel pickup. If I understand correctly your A class now has pickups on one side only of each power bogie. I have peco insulfrog points, but MM locos with their all wheel pickups run perfectly even at crawl speed over the points, as do some of my Bachman steam locos that have all wheel pickups. I'd prefer to avoid having to use keep-alive decoders in an attempt to get an A class to run well at crawl speed over points. Due to the popularity of SF A class I'm hoping somebody has discovered a solution. Any idea what bachmann chassis are similar to MM for drive and pickup quality (eg MM071)?

 

Fitting Ultrascale replacement OO gauge wheelsets https://www.ultrascale.com/eshop/products/view/CAT007/410 with wiper pick ups on the insulated wheels would be the simplest option for doing away with the traction tyres and converting a Lima or Hornby Class 55 to all 12 wheel pick up. The wheels are basically supplied to order so there should be no problem in getting a two motor set. I have used their wheels both for 21mm gauge Irish locos and stock and re-wheeling Lima British outline locos.

 

If you want a central motor and flywheel drive a Walthers or Lifelike Proto 2000 SD7 or SD9 may be a more economic conversion than a Heljan or Dapol Class 52. Years ago I motorised a MIR/Q Kits whitemetal A Class using the motor, trucks and driveshafts from an Athearn SD9.

 

It was basically a matter of building a frame and motor cradle from KS Brass strip and box section to replace the Athearn frame. The only modification to the drive to fit the shorter A Class bogie centres was to remove one of the flywheels.

[Noel]

Thanks Mayner.

 

Do none of the newer generation of Bachman or Hornby diesel locos have all wheel drive without those awful traction tyres?

 

Cheers

Noel

[Dhu Varren]

Thanks Kirley. That seemed a good solution for extra power and traction, but if I read the thread correctly those Hornby 55 bogies don't have all wheel pickup due to traction tyres. I looking for a suitable chassis with ALL wheel pickup. If I understand correctly your A class now has pickups on one side only of each power bogie. I have peco insulfrog points, but MM locos with their all wheel pickups run perfectly even at crawl speed over the points, as do some of my Bachman steam locos that have all wheel pickups. I'd prefer to avoid having to use keep-alive decoders in an attempt to get an A class to run well at crawl speed over points. Due to the popularity of SF A class I'm hoping somebody has discovered a solution. Any idea what bachmann chassis are similar to MM for drive and pickup quality (eg MM071)?

 

With all this talk of using two Hornby Class 55 motor bogies to power an A/001 Class locomotive, but not wanting to have traction tyres, I decided to look into the matter.

My investigation revealed that although traction tyres are fitted to one side of the motor bogie, there are pickups already fitted to both sides, half the job already done.

To get rid of the traction tyred wheels, all that needs to be done is to remove the drive axles from the bogie and knock the tyred wheel off each axle using a drift (an old 2mm coach or wagon axle will do the trick) and a small hammer. Using a support for the wheel on the top of a vice, tap the axle out. Before removing the wheel, cut a piece of plasticard, or metal, to fit between the wheels as a back to back gauge for the reassembly.

Using one of the wheel sets from the trailing bogie, or purchase a new set of trailing bogie wheels, remove both wheels from an axle, (if I remember correctly both wheels are insulated) and fit one to each of the drive axles where the tyred wheels were.

Press the wheels onto the axles carefully, a little at a time, checking to ensure the wheels are going on straight (place on a flat surface and let the wheelset roll, if the wheel wobbles, straighten it and press it on a bit further). Once the wheel is fully on and the back to back measurement is correct, refit the drive axles to the motor bogie and test. Bob’s your uncle, job done.

[Dhu Varren]

Having posted the above, I suddenly had the thought that I have never seen a Hornby Class 55 power bogie in the flesh. I had assumed that the drive axles are simply a clip fit into the bogie as with other current Hornby power units. If they are not clip fit, then there would be a different process for replacing the tyred wheels. Perhaps someone who knows could let me know.

[Warbonnet]

Thanks Mayner.

 

Do none of the newer generation of Bachman or Hornby diesel locos have all wheel drive without those awful traction tyres?

 

Cheers

Noel

 

They do but you have to take things like correct axle spacing etc into account. My advice would be to look Stateside for a donor. Should be a lot cheaper too and in some cases superior quality.

[Noel]

Hi DV. Thanks for that. This has been exercising my mind over the weekend. Nearly bought a pair of SF 001s at the show but felt the chassis that had been used in the stock on offer were too basic, sort of 'toy' railroad running spec. The more I think about it I feel these 001 class bodies deserve 'center drive' systems with all wheel drive on both bogies and all wheel pickups as per MM 071 model spec. Centre-drive really seems the way to go for quality diesel model locos nowadays. Most of the newer decent hornby's and bachmann's have gone this way.

[Noel]

They do but you have to take things like correct axle spacing etc into account. My advice would be to look Stateside for a donor. Should be a lot cheaper too and in some cases superior quality.

 

Thanks. I'm not familiar with US models, any brand suggestions. If one was lucky I guess the ideal find would be a 'centre-drive' co-co chassis that is exactly the right length for a SF 001 body - might be a tall order for my limited skills to avoid having to shorten an RTR 'centre-drive' chassis

[Warbonnet]

Thanks. I'm not familiar with US models, any brand suggestions. If one was lucky I guess the ideal find would be a 'centre-drive' co-co chassis that is exactly the right length for a SF 001 body - might be a tall order for my limited skills to avoid having to shorten an RTR 'centre-drive' chassis

 

Something from Atlas or Kato. You cant go wrong with their running abilities.

[DiveController]

I wanted to order a 001 class locomotive from SilverFox and am awaiting a reply from John about how the A class is currently powered. I understand they were previously powered by a Lima chassis but are more recently powered by a "Hornby DCC-ready 5-pole skew wound motor" chassis. I don't know how much "old stock" might be out there. I don't know for certain that DCC-ready include a DCC socket or if there are all wheel pickups. Will post if I know more. I may order the assembled kit rather than RTR depending on the outcome of this thread. Noel, you like the workmanship of the bodyshell ,though?

 

Kevin

[Horsetan]

Something from Atlas or Kato. You cant go wrong with their running abilities.

 

Yes, I have a number of these still for sale...

 

*discreet kof*