Pictures taken in 1977/8 on CIE system

[jhb171achill]

It was certainly brown flats on that train.

[Mayner]

Was there a special batch of 20ft flats for this working, all painted red (under the dirt) as they had sparkproof brake shoes?

 

Blaine is correct the last batch of 22'6" flats 27768-91 were fitted with spark proof brake blocks and wheel guards for the Acroylonitrile traffic and could only carry a 20' container unlike the rest of the 22'6" wagons that could carry 2-10' Unload or 1-20' ISO container.

 

The wagon in the photo does not appear to have centre cuplocks for 10' containers. The silver tank barrel and red end framing appears to cover off the Class A coding requirement for rail traffic.

[josefstadt]

Pic in post #65 turned:

[josefstadt]

As Blaine and Mayner both correctly say the 27768-27791 series of four-wheel flat wagons were specially modified to carry the Acrylonitrile containers. They were fitted with spark proof brake blocks and wheel guards and were painted silver (at least initially) though this more tham likely became dirty very quickly. Also as Mayner says unlike their preceding series of flat wagons, 27301-27767, the were only capable of carrying 20ft containers, not having the centre twist locks. The attached pic shows both types, the upper wagon being from the 27301-27767 series, while the lower one is one of the 27768-27791 series:

[jhb171achill]

Now that you mention it; they were indeed silver to start!

 

But brake dust made them brown.....

[Hunslet 102]

To the mods,any chance of putting this thread on as a sticky as there is valuable photos and information that could end up getting lost with the number of questions and answers post that occur on the thread

[heirflick]

To the mods,any chance of putting this thread on as a sticky as there is valuable photos and information that could end up getting lost with the number of questions and answers post that occur on the thread

 

good idea there andy! I save most of them to my pic section on the computer ..just to be sure!

[Junctionmad]

Post more post more, I love the 70s CIE

 

brilliant thread

[DiveController]

I second that. This thread is a fantastic resource. Keep them coming if there is more! Incidentally, if it's possible to flatten the photos somehow, that will help with the distortion

Edited March 2, 2016 by DiveController

[Junctionmad]

Jhb171achill , you obviously have a tremendous photographic collection, perhaps you could give consideration to scanning them at high resolution and building an online photo album.

 

I have a 1200 dpi a4 flatbed scanner I could lend you and set up an online album for you. These photos shouldn't be lost to history and I do t know how you are current,y scanning them , but they look low to medium resolution or just snapped using a smart phone , which tend to have terrible lighting

 

It's an amazing resource

 

The other option would be to look for contributions and get the whole collection converted to digital high resolution.

 

It's an amazing resource

[jhb171achill]

Many thanks, junctionmad. We see various collections coming online in these days, and of course we can access the excellent stuff put online by the likes of the National Library, or view it (as I have done) in the archive in Temple Bar.

 

Irishswissernie, of this website, has also posted some amazing stuff, as have people like Roger Joanes. It's good to share. All too often, stuff gets squirrelled away by someone, or worse, thrown out. I doubt there's a single photographer in the world that wants that. History is made of such stuff, and I do think it's incumbent of any of us who remember certain things to pass them on to anyone who's interested.

 

What I've posted here is the best of what I have, I had a cheap camera for most of the interesting times, and like many a one back in the day, couldn't afford enough film to take all the pictures I'd like to have done.

 

I'm looking at a future publication to encompass the best of what I have, like Michael McMahon (rather excellently!) did recently. It might take the form of an album including some of my father and grandfathers stuff, but I'm light years away from having time to sort and sift.

 

Meanwhile, I'll shtick the odd thing up here. I'm glad it's of interest to people. The railways 1950-80 were possibly the most interesting period in history.

 

For us modeller's, "the devil's in the detail". Not everyone wants accuracy, not everyone cares, and fair play to them; but for those who DO, or who want to put a lot of effort into modelling accurately, it's detail info that's needed. And for those of us with a lengthy enough list of birthdays, who were privileged enough to see it, I feel we've almost a responsibility to pass it on.

 

Thanks for the comments, folks.

[Randall Stevens]

QUOTE=jhb171achill;86156] It's good to share. All too often, stuff gets squirrelled away by someone, or worse, thrown out. I doubt there's a single photographer in the world that wants that. History is made of such stuff, and I do think it's incumbent of any of us who remember certain things to pass them on to anyone who's interested.

I'm late coming to this thread as I've been abroad with work, on your views Jbh171achill about ''sharing'' collections, the words ''squirrelled'' is most unfortunate, I don't know of anybody anywhere who ''squirrell'' away collections with bad or selfish intentions, I can't speak for anybody else, only myself, but I'm not ''squirrelling'' away my Dad's collection of 30,000 photographs, I intend to share them in the right way in the future in book form so that my Dad's 50 years of work is properly acknowledged and credited, there are good valid reasons for not sharing photos on today's internet, where work is not credited and gets taken by 3rd parties to appear on twitter, snapchat and facebook, I don't care what Roger Joanes or anybody else does, that's their business and good luck to them, but my Dad's pictures won't be an internet sensation.

My uncle (Dad's brother) was a modeller, my Dad was a photographer, they never got on,I wonder why, now both dead, my brother got all the model trains, I got all the pictures, but I'II do the right thing and do my Dad proud, I'm certainly not ''squirrelling'' them away.

[Sulzer201]

Great pics jhb and thanks for posting them as they are most interesting.

[jhb171achill]

QUOTE=jhb171achill;86156] It's good to share. All too often, stuff gets squirrelled away by someone, or worse, thrown out. I doubt there's a single photographer in the world that wants that. History is made of such stuff, and I do think it's incumbent of any of us who remember certain things to pass them on to anyone who's interested.

I'm late coming to this thread as I've been abroad with work, on your views Jbh171achill about ''sharing'' collections, the words ''squirrelled'' is most unfortunate, I don't know of anybody anywhere who ''squirrell'' away collections with bad or selfish intentions, I can't speak for anybody else, only myself, but I'm not ''squirrelling'' away my Dad's collection of 30,000 photographs, I intend to share them in the right way in the future in book form so that my Dad's 50 years of work is properly acknowledged and credited, there are good valid reasons for not sharing photos on today's internet, where work is not credited and gets taken by 3rd parties to appear on twitter, snapchat and facebook, I don't care what Roger Joanes or anybody else does, that's their business and good luck to them, but my Dad's pictures won't be an internet sensation.

My uncle (Dad's brother) was a modeller, my Dad was a photographer, they never got on,I wonder why, now both dead, my brother got all the model trains, I got all the pictures, but I'II do the right thing and do my Dad proud, I'm certainly not ''squirrelling'' them away.

 

Nobody's suggesting you're doing anything inappropriate, Randall. And if you feel my description is unfortunate, I would agree that it is unfortunate when, or if, people are selfish about material they have acquired from others - I'm not talking about their own stuff. I note you say you haven't encountered this - unfortunately I have.... Mind you, even if anyone does, I'm not suggesting "bad" intentions either.

 

The course of action that you suggest you are going to follow is a very good and responsible one. I don't think I knew your dad personally, but I am sure that the plan you have is something that would please him. If more people took the approach you have, life would be good, as useful and interesting material would be made public in appropriate ways. Appropriate in terms of accessibility, and appropriate in terms of keeping

 

As for "squirrelling away" stuff, as you suggest yourself everyone has their own way of doing things. My point was simply that when some collections fall into the hands of others, they take it upon themselves to do this. For example, if I somehow came upon your stuff, or your dad's, and decided that no-one would see it but me, that would be unfair to the original owner (unless he had requested me to do so), and possibly to the wider community in general who would have found the material useful for research or otherwise. Your course of action will keep your collection together and will allow the original photographer to be given the credit due to him.

Edited April 2, 2016 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

Another upside-downey for you.

 

Last surviving wooden brake van on CIE, still in use into the 70s, complete with flying snail to the end and 1960s era grey, this is the van which survived into preserved times thanks to one of our community here, who had it held at Tuam (and Attymon, before that), until vandals burned it.

 

It's now still with us, thankfully, at Dunsandle. It's a GSWR product and if memory serves me right, dates from about 1910.

 

[GSR 800]

And the right side uppy..

It's great that such things have been preserved. They are often overlooked, unfortunately.

[jhb171achill]

Yes. There's a GNR one and a CIE one at Whitehead, and an NCC one at Downpatrick. The GNR, NCC and above GSWR ones are the only survivors from their respective companies. The CIE one at Whitehead is joined by the one outside Cork (Halfway?) and the amended one still in IE ownership at Limerick; I believe these - amazingly given their recent numbers - to be the last standard CIE ones. There may still be a derelict one at Inchicore.

 

Not a one from the DSER, BCDR, SLNCR, or even more surprisingly, the MGWR.

 

And not a SINGLE cattle wagon from ANY railway! Despite the fact that as recently as 1955, cattle wagons probably made up 30 - 35% of the entire wagon fleet.

[bufferstop]

Biggest omission in Irish railway preservation. You simply cant tell the story of Irish railways without cattle.

 

Maybe we could cut a few holes in that poxy railbus in Downpatrick and load a few bullocks on it as an interpretative display......

[jhb171achill]

Totally right, bufferstop, a serious void in the story.

 

Filled by a railbus!!! Wahhhhhhhh!!!!

[Dhu Varren]

Whether you guys like it or not, the railbus is as much a part of Irish railway heritage as any cattle wagon. It is just a shame that preservationists of the distant past did not have the foresight to obtain a cattle wagon for preservation, before they were all scrapped.

[Gordon71]

T

Edited April 14, 2016 by Gordon71

[craven1508]

my word! brute force and a sad end!!

[jhb171achill]

Much as I have zero personal interest in either that railbus or anything post 1960s, you are of course quite right, Dhu Varren. So here's my horrible confession! It was in the early days of my tenure of DCDR finances that RB3 arrived there!

 

Cattle trucks were within my lifetime seen as the most boring routine stuff, of zero interest to anyone. This is indeed why none were preserved. I regret that, so do you; RB3 has it's followers......

[GSR 800]

Probably a few grounded ones on farms though..

[jhb171achill]

Probably a few grounded ones on farms though..[/quote

 

 

Not so, GSR, unfortunately. Cattle trucks were no use to farmers as sheds due to ventilation gaps in sides. Better for the farmer to get a covered van. Large numbers of these from old 1910-era GSWR or GNR stock, to "H" vans, were dotted about the countryside until recent years (a few still are). On withdrawal of cattle traffic in 1975, CIE scrapped the entire remaining stock in Cork and Cabra.

[GSR 800]

Probably a few grounded ones on farms though..[/quote

 

 

Not so, GSR, unfortunately. Cattle trucks were no use to farmers as sheds due to ventilation gaps in sides. Better for the farmer to get a covered van. Large numbers of these from old 1910-era GSWR or GNR stock, to "H" vans, were dotted about the countryside until recent years (a few still are). On withdrawal of cattle traffic in 1975, CIE scrapped the entire remaining stock in Cork and Cabra.

 

What a shame. Speaking of vans there is an auld wooden one by the Brosna...but that's for the grounded bodies thread, I suppose.

Of course, we could go mad and build a cattle wagon... Or build a Tardis..

[jhb171achill]

I dealt with a gentleman while involved with DCDR and RPSI finances over the years who considered funding a replica cattle wagon if pans could be found, plus paying for one or two other goods wagons to be fully refurbished (no black ironwork jobs!!).

 

The proposal never got off the ground, though I told him I'd be happy to facilitate it, and would try to find a small budget from the society concerned to assist.

 

For personal reasons relating to this gentleman, the proposal will not go ahead.

[DiveController]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16634[/ATTACH]

This was the only loco ever to have silver tablet catchers, and it was short lived...

 

 

This is in a more weathered condition that on 186 but I would have to say this is 'silver' on 122, also for however long it lasted

 

 

In fact, 186 may have set a trend for a short while, here's 181 & 182 together

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by DiveController

[DiveController]

Came across this while browsing for 1950s stock and laminate coaches. B123 appears to have a silver tablet catcher seemingly a decade before any of the other photos in 1967

If anyone can shed some light on the brake behind her I would appreciate that, in particular the end windows and whether this was standard on some series or all, etc.

[BSGSV]

It looks like one of the GSR 1936 Dublin suburban brake thirds. These were flush sided vehicles, like the main line coaches of the period, but non-gangwayed. The end windows would be for the Guard. CIE later fitted gangways (see another of them in Des Coakham's Broad Gauge Carriages book), and they wandered on main line trains despite, like the suburban Park Royals, not having lavatories.

Edited July 22, 2016 by BSGSV
Spelling error

[jhb171achill]

That's exactly what it is, BSGSV.

 

Regarding the silver tablet catchers, I wonder if several of those are silve at all. I certainly don't remember any being routinely silver - they weren't. It's possible there was the odd unpainted one, like oddball coloured wagon (or locomotive!) bogies you see nowadays.

 

On that train with two silver ones newly painted, yes, both locos silver but most certainly this was not the norm at that time.

 

The one on the B'n'T 121 is, I suspect, faded, unpainted or possibly worn.

Edited July 21, 2016 by jhb171achill

[minister_for_hardship]

On that train with two silver ones newly painted, yes, both locos silver but most certainly this was not the norm at that time.

 

The 'silver' is just the silvery-grey colour of the alloy it is cast out of. A contact of mine showed me one he got recently.

I'm assuming they only got a coat of paint when the whole loco got painted, this snatcher might have come out of stores to replace a faulty or damaged one.

[jhb171achill]

The 'silver' is just the silvery-grey colour of the alloy it is cast out of. A contact of mine showed me one he got recently.

I'm assuming they only got a coat of paint when the whole loco got painted, this snatcher might have come out of stores to replace a faulty or damaged one.

 

Exactly.

 

Even then, they were almost always black.

[DiveController]

The 'silver' is just the silvery-grey colour of the alloy it is cast out of. A contact of mine showed me one he got recently.

I'm assuming they only got a coat of paint when the whole loco got painted, this snatcher might have come out of stores to replace a faulty or damaged one.

Yes, minister, that makes a lot of sense actually and would explain the odd livery and time lapses

 

It looks like one of the GSR 1936 Dublin suburban brake thirds. These were flush sided vehicles, like the main line coaches of the period, but non-gangwayed. The end windows would be for the Guard. CIE later fitted gangways (see another of them in Des Coakham's Broad Guage Carriages book), and they wandered on main line trains despite, like the suburban Park Royals, not having lavatories.

Many thanks for that, BSGSV. I have the book and will look for it. Thanks for the info.