Garfield Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 One for the maritime buffs here... Stena Line ave announced they are to end sailings between Dun Laoghaire and Holyhead. http://www.newstalk.com/Stena-Line-confirms-it-will-no-longer-operate-Dun-Laoghaire-to-Holyhead-route Quote
Tarabuses Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Not too surprising, I would have thought. Quote
Warbonnet Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 So that's Dun Laoghaire dead as a port? Pity. I think the HSS was getting long in the tooth at this stage? Wonder what will happen to her. Quote
Noel Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 End of an era. Low cost air travel and Dublin port tunnel access direct to the motorway network were probably two major factors. Dundrum town centre has already taken much trade away from DL, this is another bit of bad news for local traders. Quote
josefstadt Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 So that's Dun Laoghaire dead as a port? Pity. I think the HSS was getting long in the tooth at this stage? Wonder what will happen to her. There were three HSS craft operating out of British ports: Stena Discovery (Harwich-Hoek van Holland), Stena Voyager (Stranraer-Belfast) and Stena Explorer (Holyhead-Dún Laoghaire). The Discovery was withdrawn in 2007 and was sold to a ferry company in Venezuela (Ferrymar) during 2009, but has lain out of use since its arrival in the country. In May 2013 the Voyager was towed to Landskrona, Sweden for scrapping. It is likely that the Explorer will suffer the same fate as the Voyager as, given the crafts' appetite for fuel, it is unlikely that any other company would be willing to take over its operation. At the time of its withdrawl, a report noted that the Discovery's operation on the Harwich - Hoek van Holland route was using more fuel than Stena's seven other conventional ferries on the North Sea put together. Noel, I doubt if the service's withdrawl will have a huge impact on the traders in Dún Laoghaire. With only one return trip a day day trip traffic from Wales must have been virtually eliminated and, in any case, the bulk of day trippers took the DART into Dublin city centre. Car and lorry traffic would have driven directly to / from the ferry terminal and would not have been a significant player in the economy of the town. Quote
DiveController Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Shame to see the catamarans go when the price of fuel is dropping. Does Irish Ferries still operate a high speed service? Quote
Warbonnet Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Shame to see the catamarans go when the price of fuel is dropping. Does Irish Ferries still operate a high speed service? Jonathan Swift is still chugging along. Quote
murrayec Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Hi The main factor is that Dublin Port from about 10 years back have been wooing Stena to use the Dublin port facility for no charge, the Dun Laoghaire Harbour company has known this for years- that's why they had those silly design build competitions to decimate the Carlisle Pier about 6 years ago with an apartment development! now they are going to do the same thing with St Michaels wharf to get an income. I'm predigest on this matter- we submitted for the Carlisle Pier comp back then- a Dublin Bay Museum harking back to the emigration period, restoring the pier and railway shed, and railway line to exhibit Dublin Bay heritage;- sailing boats, steam ships, and trains. The landmark feature of our proposal was a 100 meter tower with revolving restaurant and viewing area on top. Alas we got nowhere, the Harbour Company's plans were to privatise the pier, build apartments and sell them! We did have the full backing of the DLR Planning Dept, although they had reservations on the tower. The Maritime Museum was very interested in the replica Steam Ship for an exhibit hall. If you look closely one can see a little green Hibernia loco about to enter the Railway exhibit hall at the front of the building, running on the restored spur from the main GS railway line. Eoin Quote
Noel Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Not sure about the visual impact such an oversized tower may have had, but it could have grown on folk and become a tourist attraction. Cruise ships is another option for DL, but as somebody who goes on cruise holidays, I'd expect most pax would want direct walk off city centre access rather than off in the suburbs albeit close to a dart or get bused around. Quote
Broithe Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Not sure about the visual impact such an oversized tower may have had, but it could have grown on folk and become a tourist attraction. The Spinnaker Tower in Portsmouth seems to work OK - not sure I could manage the glass floor, though... Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Experience with cruise liners worldwide shows that while any country where they land does indeed benefit, the port area often doesn't because, as mentioned above, the people simply get out of the tub and into a bus, to go and spend their dollars inland. The benefit to the actual port of Dun Laoghaire of cruise ship passengers is, I hope, likely to be tangible, but I wouldn't get over excited by it.... Quote
DiveController Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) Well this is very successful Space Needle, Seattle WA Edited February 4, 2015 by DiveController Quote
murrayec Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Hi The Space Needle is the design our Lighthouse Project Tower was based on, we formed a partnership with DLR Architects in Seattle for the competition. A few years before the above competition we had another client looking at building a harbour hotel to add to their chain of harbour hotels around the world, they are still a big player. We proposed Carlisle Pier to them and we had the opportunity to meet with the Harbour Co director Mr Hanaho, who was very unfriendly and downright aggressive. Our client was looking at a 5 star hotel development, which Dun Laoghaire most likely could not support, cruse liners would ferry the hotel clients from hotel to hotel around the world. Again DLR Planning Dept was totally behind this idea- 5 star guests coming to plain old Dun Laoghaire, even if they bused to the city the spin-off would have been great for DL, fully behind it- bring it on! Our clients were preparing to submit proof of funds to the Harbour Company to enter into negotiations- suddenly 9/11 happened and the project stalled. A cruse liner cannot enter DL harbour, its not deep enough. Eoin Quote
DiveController Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) I noticed the similarity and wondered. Sorry to hear about the lack of vision. A similar story to Aer Lingus in the early years wanting to expand trans-Atlantic services to the USA only to be shut down by the then Taoiseach/minister ("another ambitious scheme, we prefer mediocrity!"). Boats are not my thing but having come in contact with a number of cruise vessels in the Caribbean recently I thought they only drafted about 40 ft? Had a quick look online to confirm this and Royal Caribbean's, Oasis of the Seas and Allure of the Seas draft 30 ft each. Only one I found more than that was RMS QM2 at 33ft. How deep is DL harbor? Edited February 4, 2015 by DiveController Quote
Broithe Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 How deep is DL harbor? 5 to 5.8 metres - http://dlharbour.ie/visit-us/cruise/ - so 19 feet at the most. Quote
DiveController Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 5 to 5.8 metres - http://dlharbour.ie/visit-us/cruise/ - so 19 feet at the most. Oh, that would be the problem then, almost no cruise ships drafting less than 20-23 feet. Cobh is maintained at about 37 feet at the dockside by dredging but deeper at the mouth of the harbour. Quote
Broithe Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Oh, that would be the problem then, almost no cruise ships drafting less than 20-23 feet. Cobh is maintained at about 37 feet at the dockside by dredging but deeper at the mouth of the harbour. There are deeper anchorages off DL - but, the logistics of shifting people are probably not attractive. It's mentioned further down that page I linked above. Quote
murrayec Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Hi The harbour when built was high-tec and one of the biggest at the time- for sailing ships! When coming to completion the steam ship era was taking off, so to save costs the pier walls were shortened and the planned protection wall across the mouth of the harbour was abandoned- the plan was for ships to sail behind the wall, drop sail and fall into the harbour. This was a grave error, the mouth of the harbour faces Northerly and when the North wind blows the whole of Dublin Bay sands ends up in the harbour! When the contract was signed for the Wave Cutters to dock it was conditional that the Harbour Company dredged the harbour regularly at their expense (well our expense). Also when a Wave Cutter left the dock, they had very little control at low speed so they gunned it for a few seconds to line up with the exit and backed it off until outside the harbour mouth. This caused massive disturbance under water and caused major pile up on the harbour bed, so the dredging had to be done continuously. It was a deadly system, they had a dredging plough on wheels on the bottom connected to an awesome hired boat that carried out this work by remote control, again at our expense. Aside from my mad Lighthouse the museum would have been a major attraction for DL, yes it was disappointing. Eoin Quote
murrayec Posted February 4, 2015 Posted February 4, 2015 Oh and another thing- the mouth of the harbour is not wide enough, them boys that drive them ships slow into a harbour don't like walls close by. Did you ever watch a Wave Cutter coming in, they would line the boat up outside, watch the wind, and when it was favourable they gunned it in. While the boats were travelling to DL they monitored the Dublin Bay weather, if things were looking bad they would turn the ship around and go back! Eoin Quote
jhb171achill Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 So, am I right in thinking that if the Dun Laoghaire city fathers believe they can attract cruise ships, since same won't fit, it means said city fathers are even thicker than most local politicians? And that's saying something!! :-) Quote
murrayec Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Hi Right on JHB, The destruction of DL's heritage started in early times and carried on into the stage some called 'The Celtic Tiger', its still happening today what with the new library development taking over Marconi House and the water storage quarry built to keep clean water for the men building the pier. The list is endless. I'm not against new development, sure I made a living from it, but I do believe in keeping our history and developing on it to share with the interested, not destroying it. Dun Laoghaire has nothing to offer a cruse ship now, a long time back DL city fathers and politicians turned their backs on the harbour and ancillaries. It would not surprise me if the Harbour Company decided to quarry the harbour walls for the granite to build apartments! Eoin Quote
DiveController Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 So, am I right in thinking that if the Dun Laoghaire city fathers believe they can attract cruise ships, since same won't fit, it means said city fathers are even thicker than most local politicians? And that's saying something!! :-) If I'm reading correctly between the lines of your understated remarks, then, you're not really concerned about any deficiency in leadership….. Quote
DiveController Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 It would not surprise me if the Harbour Company decided to quarry the harbour walls for the granite to build apartments! Eoin Sure they lifted every rail for the scrap , every sleeper to fill a gap and sold the permanent way so the local farmer could have more briars on the ditch. The stone is right there, why wouldn't they quarry it! Eejits:mad: Quote
Riversuir226 Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Waterford harbour has been fairly successful with the liners with berths ranging from 4.5m at the city quays, 9m at Belview and deeper still at DunmoreEast when using the pontoon . The highlight of last year was three liners berthed at the same time on Frank Cassin & the North Wharf. So theres hope for DL harbour yet !!! Edited February 5, 2015 by Riversuir226 Quote
DiveController Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Aaaah! Some beautiful vessels there, Tom. These are moderate size cruise ships more suited to the The British Isles These are some of the bad boys (gals) that frequent the Gulf Coast They're about 950' long and draft about 25-27 feet each DISNEY MAGIC [/ATTACH] CARNIVAL MAGIC RHAPSODY OF THE SEAS Edited February 5, 2015 by DiveController Quote
Noel Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Smaller cruise ships (i.e. like those seen in Waterford pics) can be more interesting to cruise on then the monster 3000-6000 pax boats. The small ships can dock in more interesting and historical city centres allowing direct walk off access avoiding tedious bus excursions. The larger 300+m boats are more often limited to docking in vast ugly commercial deep water ports (e.g. Civitavecchia 90mins from Rome, or Piraeus in Athens). Looking out from a ships balcony at oil tankers is not as 'cutsey' as looking at the walls of an old medieval city with historical and hospitality attractions only a walk from the quay. BTW, I was dragged under protest on my first cruise some years ago, complaining about paying actual money to be imprisoned and herded into an overcrowded floating hi-rise shopping mall apartment block - uggh - but it was not like that once on board. These ships only look as ugly as tower blocks from outside, once on board it was surprisingly relaxed, uncrowded and pleasant. Quote
Broithe Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 A few years ago, as I was on Ulysses, waiting to leave Dublin, the Grand Princess sauntered past - a big vessel and it looked strangely like an intergalactic shopping trolley from the rear... Quote
DiveController Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Some beautiful shots there, Jim. Magnificent vessels. The only problem with them is when you need to get off (no, not want to get off). The Carnival Triumph still docks nearby but let's not bring that up again! I do appreciate your reference to the intergalactic shopping trolley though:ROFL: The Grand Princess is still a a beauty though Quote
Broithe Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Some beautiful shots there, Jim. Magnificent vessels. The only problem with them is when you need to get off (no, not want to get off). The Carnival Triumph still docks nearby but let's not bring that up again!I do appreciate your reference to the intergalactic shopping trolley though:ROFL: The Grand Princess is still a a beauty though I was just surprised by how 'unreal' it looked - it was like seeing something CGI, but in real life... You do get the odd smaller one in Holyhead now. It's a bit deeper than DL, though. Quote
murrayec Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 Hi In the background of this shot is my mountain, I saw it from there and couldn't believe the size That's a samson post on the back for the skiers to attach their ropes Cool machine Eoin Quote
Broithe Posted February 5, 2015 Posted February 5, 2015 It was even bigger than it looked - there's chaps standing on that 'drawbridge' near the bow.. Quote
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