AEC railcars

[jhb171achill]

Please, David, didn't see it.

[Riversuir226]

Cork to Bantry service leaving Albert qy

[Riversuir226]

Youghal special leaving Glounthaune

[tonybonneyba]

A few at the front - one anyway - but normally on the back.

Thank you

[jhb171achill]

No clerestorey in those, Old Blarney.....?

 

Centre cars appear all to be laminates, or possibly (in the West Cork one) Bredins?

 

While I stand to be corrected, I did think that most of what few clerestorey roofed stuff there was on CIE would have gone by railcar days.....

[Garfield]

No clerestorey in those, Old Blarney.....?

 

Centre cars appear all to be laminates, or possibly (in the West Cork one) Bredins?

 

While I stand to be corrected, I did think that most of what few clerestorey roofed stuff there was on CIE would have gone by railcar days.....

 

JB, those photos weren't posted by Old Blarney...

 

Thanks for posting those pics, Tom!

[jhb171achill]

Interesting, Mayner - must look that up.

[josefstadt]

Did the ACE / 2600 class have the exhaust attached to the rear beside the gangway like the BR 105 or underfloor?

 

The exhaust was, as far as I can remember, underfloor.

[Kirley]

Fantastic - a thread currently running to 5 pages on RAILCARS, I can hardly believe it. Keep it going please.

[GSR 800]

Fantastic - a thread currently running to 5 pages on RAILCARS, I can hardly believe it. Keep it going please.

 

Ahh,well Kieran, I think the AECs are one of the most liked(maybe even loved!) railcars in Ireland, probably due to the character,comfort and various attractive liveries which they carried. I for one certainly like the AECs and I'm sure many do as well

[Dhu Varren]

The exhaust was, as far as I can remember, underfloor.

 

That would make sense, as I have been unable to find any pictures or video of exhausts or exhaust smoke above roof level. There is a good clear picture of the rear end of a railcar on P19 of Norman Johnston's book, 'The GNR(I) in Colour', and there is no trace of an exhaust pipe. The only exception I came across was a picture posted earlier, where there is an exhaust on the front end. http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000306151 On the other hand, the BUTs seem to have had the exhaust on the end, certainly there are a number of pictures showing an exhaust on the end, but only one end.

[Old Blarney]

As I remember the CIE railcars, their exhaust was to ground. The result being the exhausted fumes re-entered the trains carriages through open doors and windows whilst the train was stationary. This unfortunate situation may be the very reason CIE fitted an exhaust pipe to the railcar as shown in Dhu Varren's post.

 

I remember my Step-Father complaining bitterly of the discomfort he experienced whilst travelling in one of these railcars. The fumes re-entering the coach made it difficult for him to braw his breath, he had a bad chest and only one part functioning lung.

[jhb171achill]

In terms of fumes poisoning passengers, absolutely nothing could hold a candle to the ghastly, uncomfortable MED sets. Seats specially designed to wreck your back and crush your knees were perfectly counterbalanced by freezing draughts in winter, clammy stale lack of ventilation in summer (even worse than ICRs - well, close...) and diesel fumes 13 months of the year.

 

Thank the Lord none were preserved!

 

The only thing close in the discomfort stakes was a 450 class.

[StevieB]

Some wonderful photos of a clearly, much loved prototype. What you never seem to see are drawings of any of the versions of railcar:

* The GNRI 600 class/CIE 2600 class DMBC,

* The CIE 2648 class DMBS,

* The GNRI 700 class DMS,

* The GNRI 900 class DMC,

* The Bulleids,

* The CIE rebuilds?

 

Stephen

[jhb171achill]

In that (excellent) pic above, a six car set to Bantry was probably unusual. Bank holiday or something, maybe, have we details?

[Old Blarney]

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305631

 

These two cars, recorded as being Powered intermediates, may well be conversions of the Bullied's Railcars, 2600-2605? The original, Bullied Driving cars, (the flat faces ones) were, I believe, converted into driving intermediates. Looking at the roof height of these two coaches and comparing them with to the Tin Van - the difference in height between these vehicles, leads me to to conclusion that they were part of the six original Bullied railcars. Looking closely at the picture the No 2662 confirms this to be a Former Bullied Driving car. Silly me, should have inspected the number.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Old Blarney

[Garfield]

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Collection/vtls000148612?recordID=vtls000304275

 

These two cars may well be conversions of the Bullied's Railcars, 2600-2605? The original, Bullied Driving cars, (the flat faces ones) were, I believe, converted into driving intermediates. Looking at the roof height of these two coaches and comparing them with to the Tin Van - the difference in height between these vehicles, leads me to to conclusion that they were part of the six original Bullied railcars.

 

I'm fairly certain that they are... they pretty distinctive vehicles.

 

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305631

 

 

 

I only came across one photo of a Bulleid driving car during my online search, taken at Inchicore in 1960:

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000304878

[Old Blarney]

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000305443

 

Suspect the coach nearest the camera to be a "Bullied" the damaged coach to the rear, perhaps one of the "Dundrum Crash" railcars undergoing repairs, prior to re-entering service! No my conclusion, guess, is incorrect. On closer inspection the outline of each coach indicates these are all "Bullied" vehicles.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Old Blarney

[Dhu Varren]

What you never seem to see are drawings of any of the versions of railcar

 

There are drawings of the AECs and BUT 700s in Colm Flanagan's book 'Diesel Dawn'. I have drawings of both the BUT 700s and 900s, but not the AECs, which I obtained from the UFTM at Cultra many years ago.

[Dhu Varren]

According to Colm Flanagan's book, all six of the 'Bullieds', 2660-2665, were rebuilt as powered intermediates. The two in the picture are conversions, the nearest one being 2662, one of the original 'Bullieds'. However, the other vehicle, on closer examination, is slightly different in construction, and is probably one of the earlier AECs, three of which were converted to powered intermediates after repair from accident damage, 2666-2668.

[josefstadt]

Following on from JHB's question in post #20, Old Blarney has asked me to post the following picture. It is the train referred to by Mayner in post #29, showing 2616/17 at Portarlington with what appears to be a clerestory coach as the intermediate vehicle.

[Garfield]

Unequivocal proof there, Josefstadt; Thanks for posting!

[josefstadt]

Thanks due to 'Old Blarney' for finding the photo.

[Garfield]

Thanks due to 'Old Blarney' for finding the photo.

 

Indeed! Many thanks.

[Old Blarney]

I omitted to pay credit to the publisher, and photographer of the photograph used by me in this discussion. Apologies to you both.

 

The following text is from Mayner's Post - Number 23- in this discussion.

 

 

There is evidence that AEC railcars hauled ex GSWR clerestory stock.

 

There is an April 1953 photo of an newly introduced 2616 & 2617 with what looks like an ex GSWR clerestory roofed diner as intermediate coach on an up Waterford passenger at Portarlington in Anthony Burges "Chasing the Flying Snail" colour point books. The railcar set is also hauling a 6w van.

 

The supply of engine and transmission parts for the AEC railcars became a major problem that eventually lead to their withdrawal.

 

Leyland seems to have failed to understand railway asset life and the potential market for spares, New Zealand Railways had to re-engine a class of 52 heavy shunting locos with Cummins engines when Leyland ceased to supply engine parts after less than 10 years.

[Old Blarney]

Looking at this photograph, using a magnifying glass, it would appear the majority of the roof of the two driving cars is painted grey/silver. Green, being used only at the front of coach roof!

 

Can anyone remember if this is so?

[jhb171achill]

Roof details varied. A couple of cars, maybe no more than 2 or 3, had "wasp" stripes above cantrail level just at the front. Most green. While in pre-1955 dark green, roofs were often grey - possibly all were when new. But by the time the lighter green came in, roofs were always black like on carriages roofs and ends.

[Junctionmad]

I presume these railcars never made it to super train livery ? leaving aside the 121 engined versions

 

Dave

[Garfield]

I presume these railcars never made it to super train livery ? leaving aside the 121 engined versions

 

Dave

 

121-engined versions? I presume you mean the push-pull units that worked with the C class, as it'd be quite difficult to fit an EMD 567 under the floor!

 

Anyway, the answer is that no AECs in any incarnation ever wore the Supertrain livery. They were Black & Tan right up until the withdrawal of the last push-pull units in the 1980s.

[Junctionmad]

121-engined versions? I presume you mean the push-pull units that worked with the C class, as it'd be quite difficult to fit an EMD 567 under the floor!

 

Anyway, the answer is that no AECs in any incarnation ever wore the Supertrain livery. They were Black & Tan right up until the withdrawal of the last push-pull units in the 1980s.

 

yes I was referring to the push pull ( the 121s being Mk3, ) it was just a brain fart

 

so the aec railcars I saw in waterford in the mid to early seventies would have been black and tan, I remember my surprise as a kid, seeing these " carriages with engines " , I wasn't impressed ( an opinion that remains to this day )

[Old Blarney]

Powered intermediates and other modifications[edit]

CIÉ 2600 Class

 

 

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This article is about the 1950s AEC-engined railcars. For the 1990s Tokyu Car Corporation railcars in the same number series, see IE 2600 Class

 

 

"Cars 2614, 2617 and 2656 from the original fleet were rebuilt following severe collision or fire damage. Cars 2614 and 2617 were returned to service in 1960 with new bodies whose sides resembled the Bulleid cars' but whose ends were similar to those of the original batch. These cars were further rebuilt in 1961, this time along with 2656 and all the Bulleid cars, into "powered intermediates" with engines but not cabs, which were renumbered into the 2660 series.[34] Odd-numbered powered intermediates seated 60, while even-numbered cars had 52 seats and a guard's compartment. The cars were substituted for trailer vehicles in certain trains, improving the trains' power-to-weight ratio.[35] Other cars underwent changes in the seating layout, discussed above, as they were reassigned from long-distance to suburban service"

 

Lots of excellent photographs in - O'Dea Collection NLI. Insert "railcars"

[Noel]

121-engined versions? I presume you mean the push-pull units that worked with the C class, . . .

 

Did any other loco such as 141s ever push converted AEC sets?

[Garfield]

Did any other loco such as 141s ever push converted AEC sets?

 

I belive 121s did on rare occasions but it was mainly the preserve of the C class; their withdrawal followed not long after the last former AEC push-pull set was taken out of service. A class locos, as well as 141/181s and 071s were never fitted for push-pull working.

[Noel]

I belive 121s did on rare occasions but it was mainly the preserve of the C class; their withdrawal followed not long after the last former AEC push-pull set was taken out of service. A class locos, as well as 141/181s and 071s were never fitted for push-pull working.

 

Thanks. I hadn't realised the 121s had push/pull gear fitted before they were used with modified mk3 sets.

[Garfield]

Thanks. I hadn't realised the 121s had push/pull gear fitted before they were used with modified mk3 sets.

 

No worries. For the record, the push-pull Mk3 sets were not modified from standard coaches; they were constructed specifically for that purpose.