Kirley junction

[David]

I still think it's drastic action and not something I would go for personally. One thing I would look at is how freewheeling the rolling stock is. I notice that a lot of modern rolling stock is not as freewheeling as say, an old Lima Mark I. Check back to backs etc. I ran a new 201 on A4Mallards layout with three sets of Dapol Megafret container wagons (each set = 2 wagons, so essentially 6 container wagons) and it ground to a halt in the corners where there was an incline. The wagons are poor runners, not free at all, and i reckon the 201s could do with more weight and 12 wheel drive because a Bachmann 66 pulled them and more no problems.

 

Either that or re-do the helix if it's causing too many problems. Big and annoying job that though!

 

The 201 has the centre axle fairly strongly sprung as well further reducing adhesion to the outer driving wheels. I recently removed the springing on a friend's 201 so as to make the centre axle float and then all the loco weight is riding on the drivers. Worth Doing I think.

[David]

However the Experts would suggest helix’s are not for Steam Locomotives.

 

Years ago I got a Hornby Black 5 and wasn't happy at all with it's pulling power. I took off one of the driving wheels and turned a groove in it on a lathe and added a single traction tire. This loco can now pull unrealistically long rakes up steep gradients without slipping! Might be worth doing if you ever want to run steam up the helix. The tire is almost invisible to those who are not aware of it too!

[Warbonnet]

The 201 has the centre axle fairly strongly sprung as well further reducing adhesion to the outer driving wheels. I recently removed the springing on a friend's 201 so as to make the centre axle float and then all the loco weight is riding on the drivers. Worth Doing I think.

 

Interesting, I may check that out. Thanks for the tip!

[Warbonnet]

Years ago I got a Hornby Black 5 and wasn't happy at all with it's pulling power. I took off one of the driving wheels and turned a groove in it on a lathe and added a single traction tire. This loco can now pull unrealistically long rakes up steep gradients without slipping! Might be worth doing if you ever want to run steam up the helix. The tire is almost invisible to those who are not aware of it too!

 

There's Bullfrog Snot too, no need to get the lathe out! http://www.bullfrogsnot.com/

[David]

Interesting, I may check that out. Thanks for the tip!

 

You can pop the springs back in if you find it makes no difference. I didn't have the chance to test it on much of a gradient so I'm not sure if it makes much difference but in theory in should.

[David]

There's Bullfrog Snot too, no need to get the lathe out! http://www.bullfrogsnot.com/

 

That's a good find! Any idea if it dries green?!

[Warbonnet]

That's a good find! Any idea if it dries green?!

 

It dries pretty clear, I picked up a jar when in the States last year for A4Mallard and it seems to do the trick for his steam locos. His diesels don't seem to need it.

[David]

[David]

The experiment with the Black 5 showed a massive increase in power(it was literally 2 or 3 times as strong a puller) with only 1 traction tire! So with that Bullfrog Snot you should only need to do one axle or maybe only one wheel to keep power pickup as good as possible.

 

PS Sorry to hijack your thread Kirley! Hope the info is of some use on your layout!

[Warbonnet]

The experiment with the Black 5 showed a massive increase in power(it was literally 2 or 3 times as strong a puller) with only 1 traction tire! So with that Bullfrog Snot you should only need to do one axle or maybe only one wheel to keep power pickup as good as possible.

 

PS Sorry to hijack your thread Kirley! Hope the info is of some use on your layout!

 

Yep it's good stuff, plenty of tips for you there Kirley! Hope they're of use. You can get snot from model junction in the UK http://www.modeljunction.info

[josefstadt]

Josefstadt: When I was building the helix I used a Jeep and it pulled 3 carriages up the helix. It is DC and has yet to be converted to DCC so I have not been able to try it out again. However the Experts would suggest helix’s are not for Steam Locomotives.

 

 

 

Thanks Kirley. I was afraid you might say that - it looks like its back to the drawing board!!

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

I put Bullfrog snot on my steamers and while it improved pulling power it lead to poor pick-up and on some locos bad running what I do now is put lead in my steamers. Just ask Warbonnet how heavy Tornado is. I got a hornby Duchess of Sutherland at the weekend (I blame Warbonnet=))) and surprisingly she pulls 10 coaches around my layout no problem but when it comes to large wheel steamers and a helix forget about it, no matter what you do they don't like them, its time to play banker.

 

On the 201 issue pull the diesel tank of and fill with lead and super glue and then glue the tank back on. Bingo more traction still not as good as the 66 though. Speaking of which I also got a Bachmann 66 at the weekend (Warbonnet again ) took it out of the box put a Bachmann decoder in and hey presto front/rear and cab lights all work. Its also a smoother runner and better puller out of the box than the 201 I hope we don't have these problems with the forth coming 071 and if only 4 axles are powered on it, its pulling power is going to make the 201 look like Arnold Schwarzenegger at a anabolic steroid convention.

[David]

I put Bullfrog snot on my steamers and while it improved pulling power it lead to poor pick-up and on some locos bad running what I do now is put lead in my steamers.

 

Did you put it on all driving axles or just one? In the case of the Black 5 I modified, it only needed 1 traction tire to more than double traction and this had no effect on pickups as that loco had 12 pickup wheels to begin with. Most kettles these days have pickups on tender and/or carrying wheels so putting tires or bullfrog snot on one axle should make no difference to running. And I notice that some of the new 4-4-0 models(T9, 2P etc.) have traction tires on one axle. I have one, very powerful and no loss of smoothness.

 

Agreed about the 201 Anto, a little underpowered for a model of a 3000hp loco.

[Warbonnet]

I put Bullfrog snot on my steamers and while it improved pulling power it lead to poor pick-up and on some locos bad running what I do now is put lead in my steamers. Just ask Warbonnet how heavy Tornado is. I got a hornby Duchess of Sutherland at the weekend (I blame Warbonnet=))) and surprisingly she pulls 10 coaches around my layout no problem but when it comes to large wheel steamers and a helix forget about it, no matter what you do they don't like them, its time to play banker.

 

On the 201 issue pull the diesel tank of and fill with lead and super glue and then glue the tank back on. Bingo more traction still not as good as the 66 though. Speaking of which I also got a Bachmann 66 at the weekend (Warbonnet again ) took it out of the box put a Bachmann decoder in and hey presto front/rear and cab lights all work. Its also a smoother runner and better puller out of the box than the 201 I hope we don't have these problems with the forth coming 071 and if only 4 axles are powered on it, its pulling power is going to make the 201 look like Arnold Schwarzenegger at a anabolic steroid convention.

 

I'd just put it on one of the driving axles Anto, like the rearmost drivers. Hornby locos pick up on the tender too, a bit of a failing on the Bachmann locos.

 

And as for the Dutchess and the 66? PICTURES!!!

[Broithe]

On the 201 issue pull the diesel tank of and fill with lead and super glue and then glue the tank back on. Bingo more traction still not as good as the 66 though.

 

There has been talk, in the past, of a superglue/lead reaction taking place on a few occasions - http://www.ratomodeling.com/articles/lead_ca/lead_ca.html - I'm not sure how true it all is, though..

 

Time will tell.

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

Did you put it on all driving axles or just one? In the case of the Black 5 I modified, it only needed 1 traction tire to more than double traction and this had no effect on pickups as that loco had 12 pickup wheels to begin with. Most kettles these days have pickups on tender and/or carrying wheels so putting tires or bullfrog snot on one axle should make no difference to running. And I notice that some of the new 4-4-0 models(T9, 2P etc.) have traction tires on one axle. I have one, very powerful and no loss of smoothness.

 

Agreed about the 201 Anto, a little underpowered for a model of a 3000hp loco.

 

 

 

I put it on the rear axle of a new Hornby Scot and it just didn't like it and caused it to derail and run badly you can't put it on all axles as it reduces the pick up on the axles you put it on. The way I get round the problem is to have a Westcoast railways 47/57 on the back like they do on the rail tours in the UK that way I can run up to 10/12 coaches per train.

 

 

 

Edited September 11, 2012 by Anthony

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

 

And as for the Dutchess and the 66? PICTURES!!!

 

 

Will put some up in the UK section for you later have a few mods to do to them first acc packs etc

[Flying Scotsman 4472]

There has been talk, in the past, of a superglue/lead reaction taking place on a few occasions - http://www.ratomodeling.com/articles/lead_ca/lead_ca.html - I'm not sure how true it all is, though..

 

Time will tell.

 

 

 

I've had my oldest 201 diesel tank filled with super glue and lead since I got her which is well over a year now and no problems. I use an activator with the glue so it cures the glue straight away.

[David]

I put it on the rear axle of a new Hornby Scot and it just didn't like it and caused it to derail and run badly you can't put it on all axles as it reduces the pick up on the axles you put it on. The way I get round the problem is to have a Westcoast railways 47/57 on the back like they do on the rail tours in the UK that way I can run up to 10/12 coaches per train.

 

It may simply work better or worse on different locos. Does it clean off if you want it to? The axle i added the tyre to on the black 5 was a sprung axle so maybe the key is to add traction to the sprung axle(most kettles have one). Where possible I'd add lead but smaller steam locos don't have much space to add it!

[Broithe]

I've had my oldest 201 diesel tank filled with super glue and lead since I got her which is well over a year now and no problems. I use an activator with the glue so it cures the glue straight away.

 

Fair enough - it sounded a bit iffy to me - enough people have been doing it for long enough for the problem to be well-known, if it was real.

 

There are other people reporting a similar thing when they've used PVA - so, it's probably down to the lead they're using - if that is really what it is..

[Kirley]

Work continues on the layout, you work for days and day and nothing obvious seems to be happening. Lots of wiring of points, soldering track, testing trains running and relining the track.

One objective in building this layout was to have the ability to have a Storage Level to store all my locomotives, carriages and wagons rather than having them in boxes. The test running shown the storage under one side of the layout was not adequate so I have decided to continue the storage section round to the other side of the layout which should give me 12-14feet of additional storage in which I can fit 10 tracks.

 

 

That's five hours work but I suppose a railway was never built in a day.

[fitzguttentite]

very very impressive

keep up the good work and keep the photos coming

[A4mallard]

kirley,

very impressive, great shed, lovely woodwork.

I had huge problems in the beginning of my layout with gradients, at one stage it looked like I would have to take down at least 2 levels.

the problem for me turned out to be the peco track, brand new out of the box, there seemed to be an oil on the rail.

I was having problems running trains with 20 wagons(box vans). now i can run 85 plus, took a bit of cleaning with the track but i got there in the end.

regards

bren

[Kirley]

85 + I don't think I would have that many wagons.

Never thought of new track causing problems, what cleaning method did you use?

[A4mallard]

I use wet wipe hand cleaners and just keep wiping it down.

any new engines wipe the wheels down before you run them (particularly Helgan)

[Kirley]

Thanks Bren

[Kirley]

Finally completed my additional storage section.

 

 

 

 

It’s frightening to see once I started to fill it with coaches how quickly it is filling up.

 

 

 

 

 

It looks like there will be ‘no room in the Inn’ for my freight stock.

 

 

Hopefully that will be the end of my “Subterranean Homesick Blues” (Dylan to the uninitiated) and I can continue work on the topside, ballasting being my next priority.

[BosKonay]

Beautiful!!! And great storage!

 

You'll need another level for the freight stock

[Northman]

Thats a great looking class 70 kirley.:tumbsup:Layout coming on great.

[josefstadt]

Looking marvellous Kirley. I too like the 70-class.

[RedRich]

Kirley things are moving at a great speed when you consider that the build only started in July, great work.

 

Rich,

[BabyGM]

Looking good can't wait to see more updates

[fitzguttentite]

Excellent

[Hunslet 102]

Kirley-great pics and video of your new layout,it looks brilliant.Like the 70 class in the maroon and grey livery,it really suited them and a great reminder of the era I love best-the early 70s.Like the paint job on the 450 class,is the non-motorised driving trailer a repainted Dapol class 150?Nice glimpse of an 80 in the background also.Love the Hunslet also-surprise surprise-the best loco ever to run on Irish metals:p. great array of stock overall.

 

Plenty of work to keep you going over the winter months,happy modelling

[Kirley]

Kirley-great pics and video of your new layout,it looks brilliant.Like the 70 class in the maroon and grey livery,it really suited them and a great reminder of the era I love best-the early 70s.Like the paint job on the 450 class,is the non-motorised driving trailer a repainted Dapol class 150?Nice glimpse of an 80 in the background also.Love the Hunslet also-surprise surprise-the best loco ever to run on Irish metals:p. great array of stock overall.

 

Plenty of work to keep you going over the winter months,happy modelling

 

Yes Hunslet I used the cheap option getting the Dapol rather than the Bachmann 150, the motor goes well so I'll live with my decision.