10 Ton GSWR Ballast Brake Plough Van

[Glenderg]

First off, if anyone would like any of their photos removed, please contact me or a mod. Reverse searches on the images has proved fruitless, but I believe Enniscorthyman, TTC, Aidan Kehoe, and RedRich may have taken the modern ones. The text is also cobbled together from various sources.

 

Built in 1906, Great Southern and Western Railway procured several of these wagons. They share a very similar outline to the GWR AA3 pattern brake van, it's possible they are related. This is the earliest photo I can find of one behind 355. The small lettering of GSWR can be seen, along with the letters PWD to the right hand side.

 

 

These were steel framed from the beginning, even though sister companies like the GNR(I) were knocking out wooden bodied wagons up until the 1940's. The O'Dea Collection has quite a few shots of ballast activity, but not always labelled as such!

 

 

Ballybrophy with decorative curved canopy on the central platform, similar to that in Mallow.

 

 

 

What looks like a mixed rake of GNR and GSWR hoppers, all together in a higgledypiggledy formation.

 

 

At Lisduff is 8452, loading up with ballast. Note the faded flying snail freight stencil on the left hand side.

 

Into broken circle territory, and what looks like the scrap line in Mullingar, is 8452 again, this time in faded bauxite, and the timber panelling to the sides having been plated over by sheet metal. Panelling on the veranda end still present.

 

Unsure of location but somewhere on the DART network, here she is again in yellow. What is mighty about this photos is that the buffers have been upgraded as have dampers and brake gear, but it reveals the original grey livery which they would have worn in the B&W photos above. The last batch of photos show how it was like Triggers sweeping brush, as window openings have been altered, the sides having been padded out so that the vertical stanchions are now hidden, but the timber panelling from beneath is still visible.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23247[/ATTACH]

 

8456 was the last survivor and is believed to have been cut up after 106 years of service (heretics) in 2012. However, 8452 is restored in Downpatrick wearing, as is customary, a fictitious livery and inaccurate stencilling. I've attached a drawing I did of the profile based on photos, which should help anyone scratchbuilding one.

 

8452.pdf

 

R.

[jhb171achill]

Superb article, Glenderg!

 

It would have been available for the DCDR, though with the one there rarely used, hard to justify the expense of bringing a non revenue duplicate vehicle to the railway....unfortunately.

 

At least one is preserved.

[Junctionmad]

Richie, what number is this one ? have you a high res version ?

 

 

I wonder when They went from brown to yellow

 

DO you think the sheet steel was just a thin plating over the wood

 

I think this might be a interesting version to model , a kind of half way house

 

Also notice roller bearings were fitted, as opposed to oil boxes in the CIE photo

 

dave

[Weshty]

Now THAT's a photo collection. Great resource for putting together a model / etch (cough) of one....

 

To quote Gaff in Bladerunner.."You've done a man's job sir!"

[ttc0169]

First off' date=' if anyone would like any of their photos removed, please contact me or a mod. Reverse searches on the images has proved fruitless, but I believe Enniscorthyman, TTC, Aidan Kehoe, and RedRich may have taken the modern ones. The text is also cobbled together from various sources. Built in 1906, Great Southern and Western Railway procured several of these wagons. They share a very similar outline to the GWR AA3 pattern brake van, it's possible they are related. This is the earliest photo I can find of one behind 355. The small lettering of GSWR can be seen, along with the letters PWD to the right hand side. <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23261"/> These were steel framed from the beginning, even though sister companies like the GNR(I) were knocking out wooden bodied wagons up until the 1940's. The O'Dea Collection has quite a few shots of ballast activity, but not always labelled as such! <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23250"/> Ballybrophy with decorative curved canopy on the central platform, similar to that in Mallow. <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23251"/> <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23253"/> What looks like a mixed rake of GNR and GSWR hoppers, all together in a higgledypiggledy formation. <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23248"/> At Lisduff is 8452, loading up with ballast. Note the faded flying snail freight stencil on the left hand side. <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23254"/> Into broken circle territory, and what looks like the scrap line in Mullingar, is 8452 again, this time in faded bauxite, and the timber panelling to the sides having been plated over by sheet metal. Panelling on the veranda end still present. <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23252"/> Unsure of location but somewhere on the DART network, here she is again in yellow. What is mighty about this photos is that the buffers have been upgraded as have dampers and brake gear, but it reveals the original grey livery which they would have worn in the B&W photos above. The last batch of photos show how it was like Triggers sweeping brush, as window openings have been altered, the sides having been padded out so that the vertical stanchions are now hidden, but the timber panelling from beneath is still visible. <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23255"/> <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23256"/> <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23257"/> <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23258"/> <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23259"/> <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23260"/> <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23247"/> <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23249"/> 8456 was the last survivor and is believed to have been cut up after 106 years of service (heretics) in 2012. However, 8452 is restored in Downpatrick wearing, as is customary, a fictitious livery and inaccurate stencilling. I've attached a drawing I did of the profile based on photos, which should help anyone scratchbuilding one. <img src="http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=23262"/> R.[/quote']

 

Richie,You have my permission to use the photos that I have taken-and thank you for asking.

[Glenderg]

Superb article, Glenderg!.

 

Cheers JB, that means a lot

 

Richie, what number is this one ? have you a high res version ?

 

I wonder when They went from brown to yellow

 

DO you think the sheet steel was just a thin plating over the wood

 

No idea of the running number and that's as high res as they get. There were only four 8452 - 8456.

 

No idea when the change happened. Early seventies? NLI have photos of tampers in 1966 in yellow. I have a colour Joe St. Leger one showing it in brown, but the collection has been taken off Flickr so I can't tell what date it is

 

The sheet metal was between 6 - 8mm thick as it the same thickness as the stanchions.

 

Now THAT's a photo collection. Great resource for putting together a model / etch (cough) of one....

 

To quote Gaff in Bladerunner.."You've done a man's job sir!"

 

Cheer's Des - no excuse now but there's no donor chassis unfortunately

 

Richie,You have my permission to use the photos that I have taken-and thank you for asking.

 

I had a feeling they came from your goodself. They are a remarkable record of those wagons, as rare as hen's teeth. Many thanks. R.

[GSR 800]

Richie I think this excellent thread deserves to be a sticky, as it's a great resource. All in favor?

[Richard EH]

ooooo that's a nice set of photos for sure! Who'd have thought looking at it's latter incarnations that it was that old!!

 

All those ballast wagons are going to need something to bring up the rear of the train ;')

 

Kind Regards

 

Richard.

[GSR 800]

When was 8452 taken out of service?

[Weshty]

Richie I think this excellent thread deserves to be a sticky, as it's a great resource. All in favor?

 

+1

[Glenderg]

When was 8452 taken out of service?

 

Rescued by the ESB in 1996 from lisduff but had been idle for some time in

[GSR 800]

Rescued by the ESB in 1996 from lisduff but had been idle for some time in

 

Thanks man:tumbsup:

[jhb171achill]

As for changes in colours, I'm not sure when they went from brown to yellow. I would guess - but it's only a guess - maybe mid to late 1980s. Early 90s at most.

 

The change from grey to brown would have happened in the mid 70s. Naturally, prior to CIE they we also grey in GSR days, and the later GSWR days a darker grey. They may have been black when built new, as most GSWR goods and PW stock was then.

[jhb171achill]

++ 1

[Mike 84C]

Excellent thread Richie. And another vote in favour of the sticky motion.

+1

[Garfield]

As for changes in colours, I'm not sure when they went from brown to yellow. I would guess - but it's only a guess - maybe mid to late 1980s. Early 90s at most.

 

There are pics knocking around of yellow ballast ploughs with CIE roundels, so I'd say it would've happened in the early '80s at the latest, JB...

[jhb171achill]

It's possible, Garfield. If such a thing appeared even as late as 1986, it would still have a roundel if painted yellow.

 

Certainly, when I saw ballast trains in the late 70s, yellow was nowhere to be seen, so it's been some time in the 80s. Maybe someone else might know exactly, for the assistance of those modellers seeking accuracy for their chosen period?

[Junctionmad]

JB might be the man to ask , if I was building a gswr plough for a late seventies early eighties layout , would it be in bauxite brown or yellow

 

These are weighty questions us railway modellers have to deal with

 

Opps I see JB has answered.

 

The key to this question of yellow is of course a dated picture from the seventies

 

I think it's clear however that new series of 4 ploughs built in 1977 was always yellow. The issue is when the gswr versions were so converted to that colour

Edited March 16, 2016 by Junctionmad

[Glenderg]

JM,

 

Page 67 of Hirsch and Doyle first edition has a black and white of 8452, with the same vertical white stripe as the bauxite mullingar photo. Since it's 1979, one can assume the photo was taken no later than that.

 

So 1979 = Bauxite

 

After that? well, time to trawl the books now, I've exhausted the internet.

[Weshty]

...I've exhausted the internet.

 

Jaysus, the images those words conjure up.

[DiveController]

Jaysus, the images those words conjure up.

A very novel approach to the brake plough van. Fantastic thread, Richie. Really enjoyed that little historical trip:-bd

Am I detecting a little bit of an architectural fetish with the permanent way?

[GSR 800]

Jahsus, I forgot, motion carried.

Now,the people have spoken. They want this thread to be a sticky!

[jhb171achill]

The key to this question of yellow is of course a dated picture from the seventies

 

I think it's clear however that new series of 4 ploughs built in 1977 was always yellow. The issue is when the gswr versions were so converted to that colour

 

Absolutely. The 1977 new ones were, as far as I remember, the first PW vehicles (other than tampers, liners and general "yellow machines") ever to be yellow.

 

If you're modelling a GSWR one around 1979/80, I'd go for all over brown.

[Junctionmad]

righty o - brown is it , now to source correct axle boxes and away I go

[Glenderg]

righty o - brown is it , now to source correct axle boxes and away I go

 

http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2261A.php

 

They'll do rightly

[GSR 800]

http://www.dartcastings.co.uk/mjt/2261A.php

 

They'll do rightly

Courtesy of a certain mister Mayne...out of stock at the mo

..

[Glenderg]

Courtesy of a certain mister Mayne...out of stock at the mo

..

 

Possibly my fault. I beg forgiveness.

 

Anyway, after trawling all my books and the ENTIRE digital photo library here at glenderg towers, the date issue of bauxite/yellow was in front of me all the time, and JHB has the answer. He posted this recently.

 

 

JB might just have a look at the back and see if there's a date, I can't locate the thread.

[GSR 800]

Possibly my fault. I beg forgiveness.

 

You are forgiven, my son:bishopbrennan: in the name of the Maebh, and the Macha, and of Tailte,Deirde and Grainne, amen

[jhb171achill]

I'll have a check, Glenderg. I think that photo was about 1978 / 9.

[DiveController]

8452 is restored in Downpatrick wearing, as is customary, a fictitious livery and inaccurate stencilling

Anyone have a photo of the one at Downpatrick in its present form?

[Junctionmad]

I'll have a check, Glenderg. I think that photo was about 1978 / 9.

 

As mr Burns would say , " excellent "

[DiveController]

Anyone have a photo of the one at Downpatrick in its present form?

Never mind, a quick search and here it is…. (not mine, previously uploaded to the site but can't remember who to credit, sorry:()

[jhb171achill]

Yellow submarines which I saw the other day. Just while we're talking ballast....

 

[Leyny]

Was about to post a question about these very vehicles when I came across this, great resource Glenderg.

Has anybody here had a go at building one of these bad boys? After 106 years of service it's the least they deserve! 

I have never built a brass kit so don't know how easy or difficult it is to alter body sides etc. But on the face of it, the kit below of an old LSWR plough van looks like it'd be a good starting point at least and with a bit of alteration could be made into something passable for one of these. The end result might look a. bit rough around the edges but then, as the photos above show, so did the real things themselves.

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/933/sbm4021-lswr-ballast-plough-and-brake-van/

Edited September 25, 2023 by Leyny

[Mayner]

In OO probably easier to scratch-build the body in plasticard on a Dapol Presflow or IRM Ballast Plough, in later years IE rebuilt the remaining ex-GSWR Brakes with similar running gear and ploughs to the "modern" ballast prloughs