CIE Sundries Container on a 20ft Flat Wagon

[leslie10646]

 

We have again made use of our model of the double beet wagon to produce another kit. Remember that the beet was built by placing two corrugated wagon bodies onto a 26xxx series container flat. The 1970s built 27xxx series was similar, except that it had no floor, but instead the skeleton underframe was visible. This has been the subject of an earlier kit.

 

Our new kit uses that same chassis, but WITHOUT the skeleton - you won't be able to see it anyway, UNDER A CONTAINER!

 

So, we have modelled a 1970 period Sundries Container, of which 200 were built in an endeavour to boost freight traffic. My researches suggest that the containers were built by McArdles of Dundalk around 1970. This company built several hundred containers for CIE around this period. This container had both side double doors and end doors, as can be seen above.

 

The colour of these containers is not easy to replicate, so the builder can have some fun. I have tried both Precision Paints "CIE Brown" and a Humbrol "orange/brown" both of which give a reasonable result - probably a bit bright. You can judge for yourself, as I'll leave the "experimental" container as is for Blackrock! There are few enough photos of the containers and, of course film colour can be deceptive; then of course, there is what we older types actually remember of the real thing!

 

The kit will come with transfers for the flat and the container. In my illustration, I have just added the usual CIE "Broken Wheel", but the final kit will include transfers (in white) of the container number and tare details; plus a "TIR" square for the end door.

 

Price £31 or €36.50 post paid

The Euroland price is rather high due to the Royal Mail’s high charges for a “Small Parcel” to Europe; however, remember that I can post two or even threee wagons for the same cost and I will reduce the price of multiple orders accordingly.

Better still, buy the kit at Blackrock in October for €35.

[Noel]

Nice Leslie. Good to see new kits of unique Irish wagons

 

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/2900-27101-series-flat-wagons

 

[jhb171achill]

Brilliant!

 

I can confirm that examples existed with black and white lettering / badge, as in the photo, and all-black as on the model.

 

An absolutely essential addition to the mid-1970s scene.

[dave182]

Oh yes!!!

[Mayner]

Leslie: Hope you follow this up with a model of the ubiquitous 10' Uniload container that were used to carry the bulk of sundries traffic between the late 70s & early 1990s. Most sundries traffic was carried carried in these wagons with door to door delivery by Bedford TK fitted with taillift.

 

Sundries high value goods like cigarettes, spirits, motor parts were packed into caged trollies at the factory or railhead then placed inside the 10' containers,

[leslie10646]

Leslie: Hope you follow this up with a model of the ubiquitous 10' Uniload container that were used to carry the bulk of sundries traffic between the late 70s & early 1990s. Most sundries traffic was carried carried in these wagons with door to door delivery by Bedford TK fitted with tail lift.

 

John

 

That container is most certainly on the "to do" list, especially as there seem to be a fair few still lying around the system. I measured one up at Heuston yard earlier in the year.

 

It should be fun getting a transfer to successfully sit on the corrugations!

 

But, first things first - I'd like to sell a few of these to keep my modeller's enthusiasm up - it ain't as easy as it looks! So, when I've shifted a ton of the 20ft, we'll look at the 10ft (actually 8ft6in, I believe).

 

Does someone do the lorry? Even if it would need repainting? Hhmmmm, there seem to be some, although not necessarily the one you speak of, John.

 

Leslie

[MOGUL]

Hi Leslie,

Would you be interested in selling the container as a separate item, would be very handy for anyone modelleding the weedspray train which still uses one!

[flange lubricator]

Another use for this 20ft container

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2036&d=1344009603

[leslie10646]

Hi Leslie,

Would you be interested in selling the container as a separate item, would be very handy for anyone modelleding the weedspray train which still uses one!

 

Hi "Mogul"

 

It is my intention to sell it separately in time.

 

PM me and we'll sort something out.

 

Leslie

[leslie10646]

Another use for this 20ft container

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2036&d=1344009603

 

Ah, Flange, you've beaten me to it!

 

I'll run one of these Lyons containers off when I find a suitable source of white letters.

 

Did anyone ever see them actually in traffic? I haven't been able to decide how many of them there were either.

 

Leslie

[jhb171achill]

I saw one in a goods train parked in Limerick station once....

[Mayner]

The side door containers seem to have been used as a more modern substitute for H vans rather than for intermodal work before loose coupled goods trains were phased out in the late 70s

 

I remember seeing side door containers and half heights in traffic use in the down goods yard in Athy around 78, there are a number of photos of side door containers in the Youghal goods train.

[Junctionmad]

Leslie: Hope you follow this up with a model of the ubiquitous 10' Uniload container that were used to carry the bulk of sundries traffic between the late 70s & early 1990s. Most sundries traffic was carried carried in these wagons with door to door delivery by Bedford TK fitted with taillift.

 

Sundries high value goods like cigarettes, spirits, motor parts were packed into caged trollies at the factory or railhead then placed inside the 10' containers,

I remember that setup well in Waterford in the mid- late seventies , delivering cash and carry style goods to small shops. I didn't realise it went on into the 90s , I thought it died out much earlier then that

 

Weren't those containers lower in height , then the stand TEU

[leslie10646]

I remember that setup well in Waterford in the mid- late seventies , delivering cash and carry style goods to small shops. I didn't realise it went on into the 90s , I thought it died out much earlier then that

 

Weren't those containers lower in height , then the stand TEU

 

Folk

 

Replying to last two e-mails.

 

John M is quite right that the sundries container on a flat WAS indeed used as a modern "H Van". I have read somewhere of CIE's intent to have a "no shunt railway" - I'm still scanning through old IRRS Journals for the full story - after which I'll share it. I believe that the idea was that the train containing containers on flats would pull up, a fork lift remove pallets as required and off it would go (I think!).

 

Anyway, Michael and I decided that we would sell the combination more or less as a "van" - hence just using the double beet chassis, WITHOUT the fancy skeletal insert (which adds cost). IF you want a proper skeleton plus container, I'll oblige you, for about a couple of Euros more than the "standard" kit.

 

To have a 26xxx flat under your container, just add a small sheet of Plasticard between the suppled chassis and the container - only trouble is, I haven't done the transfers for that yet!

 

Now, "Junction" 's comment about the little "Uniload" containers - when my pal Anthony and I measured one in April, I'm pretty sure they were a 8ft6in cube. As I said - on the to do list.

 

Now, where can I get the white letters for Lyons ……………

 

Leslie

[jhb171achill]

The "no shunt railway" concept dates back to the Rail Modernisation project, conceived in - I think - 1973, and thus probably reported about then. Unfortunately, its main achievement was the entire closure, on the one day (3.11.75) of the entire Burma Road, Loughrea and Ardee branches, and the North Kerry between Listowel (which wouldn't last much longer) and Ballingrane.....

[Junctionmad]

The "no shunt railway" concept dates back to the Rail Modernisation project, conceived in - I think - 1973, and thus probably reported about then. Unfortunately, its main achievement was the entire closure, on the one day (3.11.75) of the entire Burma Road, Loughrea and Ardee branches, and the North Kerry between Listowel (which wouldn't last much longer) and Ballingrane.....

 

It had lots of other " achievements " , primarily the spending of considerable sums that arguably were all wasted, unlike private companies , that need to " sweat assets" and who largely modify over time, nationalised industries with access to large , essentially " free" capital, then take Big Bang decisions many of which have huge consequences and often turn out to be wrong but are impossible to retract

[jhb171achill]

The "freight hub" or whatever they called it, at Listowel, never materialised at all.

 

However, a long wheelbase four wheeled "sundries van" with retractable sides and roof was built as an experiment at Inchicore. I've seen photos of it.

[Warbonnet]

The "freight hub" or whatever they called it, at Listowel, never materialised at all.

 

However, a long wheelbase four wheeled "sundries van" with retractable sides and roof was built as an experiment at Inchicore. I've seen photos of it.

 

Would love to see some really good images of it, but sadly I can't see myself persuading my fellow Irish Railway Models' crew that it would be a sound business decision to make it RTR!

[jhb171achill]

Would love to see some really good images of it, but sadly I can't see myself persuading my fellow Irish Railway Models' crew that it would be a sound business decision to make it RTR!

 

It wouldn't - even CIE didn't "RTR" it!

[leslie10646]

It wouldn't - even CIE didn't "RTR" it!

Never mind, John, this one is pretty near RTR -

 

just five parts -

 

and I'm willing to bet they will be seen in places a good deal distant from the likes of Listowel!

 

Leslie

Edited October 9, 2017 by leslie10646

[leslie10646]

I have been checking up on progress back at my "factory" on a well-known off-shore island and I should have a reasonable stock of this kit available for Blackrock, but to be sure of getting yours, or indeed any of my kits, just send an e-mail to the address on my website -

 

http://www.provincialwagons.com

 

As I haven't been able to source the full transfer set which I require for the container (no problem with the flat), the kit price will be €34 at the exhibition. You will still get a quartet of "broken wheels" for the container, which may be quite enough for some of you?

 

When the full set of transfers is ready, you can get them from me by post, at cost (a Euro plus postage should cover it), or over the counter at Bangor - the next time I'll be in Ireland.

 

Leslie

[Mayner]

Folk

 

 

 

I have read somewhere of CIE's intent to have a "no shunt railway" - I'm still scanning through old IRRS Journals for the full story - after which I'll share it. I believe that the idea was that the train containing containers on flats would pull up, a fork lift remove pallets as required and off it would go (I think!).

 

 

 

Leslie

 

Sundries containers and bagged cement traffic was unloaded on the main line using forklifts at some of the smaller depots, such as Mullingar, Boyle & Roscommon on the Midland. Bagged cement was also unloaded on the main line at Gort & Tuam on the Limerick-Claremorris line.

 

To be fair CIE engineers were fairly innovative in designing wagons like the bagged and bubble cement and prototype sundries van.

 

In some respects the design of the sliding door sundries van was ahead of current technology and the 10' Uniload Container a better work around for sundries traffic than a pallet wagon.

 

In the end there was no way IE could continue to transport sundries and domestic container traffic with a government subsidy once the road transport industry was de-regulated and CIE lost its virtual monopoly on road haulage in the early 1990s.

 

Interestingly railborne "sundries" traffic is making a come back with Logistics companies using rail for its line haul work between hubs. The big difference is the much longer line haul between terminals and higher volumes of traffic.

[Noel]

. . .

Now, "Junction" 's comment about the little "Uniload" containers - when my pal Anthony and I measured one in April, I'm pretty sure they were a 8ft6in cube. As I said - on the to do list.

 

They do look a little less tall in this pic, about 6", but photos can be deceptive.

 

 

Photo from: http://steverabone.com/RailwayPhotographs/

 

With hindsight the uniload concept looked like a great idea to replace the movements that 'pick up freight' wagons needed with a simple and quick fork lift operation for passing trains. Made ventilated vans redundant.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Noel

[Glenderg]

They are either 9'6" high cubes (much later) or 8'6" as a standard TEU - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-foot_equivalent_unit - but not 6 foot!

[MOGUL]

20fts in 9ft 6 are very rare so most likely 8ft 6in.. the 10fts could be8ft which was a very common size pre-1980s

[leslie10646]

 

Steve at Railtec has worked overtime to produce my transfer set for this new container - sorry that my painting and transferring skills are very rusty - last practised in the 1970s!

Each transfer set includes a spare of each transfer you can see.

Come and see for yourself at Blackrock. Buying there will be cheaper than by post, as Her Majesty's Mail is criminally expense to non-Brexit countries (my Irish passport application is in!).

Do drop along and say "Hi" even if this isn't your period.

Stand 14

Leslie

 

[DB JOE]

Very nice  will have to get a few on Saturday

[leslie10646]

You'll be very welcome to have "a few" Joe.

Sound like we have a love of a particular railway in common?

Just about to set off for the Holyhead boat, IF Richard ever gets here in his limousine!

Leslie

[Dave Dawes]

Is there a rtr chassis available for these short containers , ie dapol, hornby ect, I'm useless with kits