Mount Bellew, MGWR

[2996 Victor]

2 hours ago, Midland Man said:

The Broadstone series is quite mixed in dates as you have the 1899 serious good wagon with the brand new(in 1920 I  think ) goods van. Can not wait to sea the work bench and will your layout be a show or home layout?

Thanks, MM, that's good to know.

I'll pop a link on this thread when I create the workbench one. Close of play today saw two wagons-worth of sides/ends assembled but without floors, plus three other sets of side/ends scribed out. Trouble is, I do work quite slowly.....

The plan is to make the layout exhibitable, although whether it will be worth exhibiting will remain to be seen!

With kind regards,

Mark

Edited April 26, 2020 by 2996 Victor
Typos

[2996 Victor]

Dear All,

In the interests of keeping things going while I am scratch-building some MGWR open box wagons (my workbench will magically appear when I've got some photos worth posting!), I wonder if I could have some advice about the kits currently available?

I'm in touch with Des at SSM and hope to order a couple of his MGWR convertible goods wagon kits, but I'm also interested in some "foreign" wagons. Somewhere we briefly discussed the likelihood of other companies' goods wagons being found on MGWR metals, the answer being definitely so. So, in that vein, and given that I'm planning on including livestock specials, would the Provincial Models SL&NCR 7ton cattle wagon be suitable for the 1900-1905 period? And likewise their SL&NCR 7ton covered goods wagon? Sadly, their GNR cattle wagon is to a 1938 pattern, so way too late for me!

Thanks as always for any thoughts and ideas!

Stay safe and stay well,

Mark

[Galteemore]

Can’t advise on the cattle wagon till I access my library later, Mark. The convertible wagons definitely were out and about and would have been seen on the MGWR. Egg traffic off the SLNC, for instance, was quite significant. 

[jhb171achill]

Hi Mark

For the period you are modelling, almost all wagons and rolling stock, unfortunately, would have to be scratch-built, if accuracy is required.

If you have got Ernie Shepherd's book, you will see the typical "soft-top" convertible van which abounds. Some open-top cattle trucks might still be seen, though they were meant to be covering them up. Only open wagons were broadly similar. Horse boxes - you are aware of the kit. Locomotives - again, scratch-building, I'm afraid.

If you ever heard of the late Richard Chown's "Castle Rackrent", a famous "0" gauge layout, he did all that, and some sixty years or so ago to boot. His layout was primarily WLWR-orientated, though of course this line met the MGWR at Athenry, Claremorris and Collooney. But it gives a nice flavour of the period.

I'll post some photos in a moment - all taken from Ernie Shepherd's book, the IRRS "picture album", and "Rails to Achill".

 

 

[jhb171achill]

[2996 Victor]

50 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Can’t advise on the cattle wagon till I access my library later, Mark. The convertible wagons definitely were out and about and would have been seen on the MGWR. Egg traffic off the SLNC, for instance, was quite significant. 

Fabulous, thank you @Galteemore, that's brilliant!

With kind regards,

Mark

[2996 Victor]

On 4/28/2020 at 1:48 PM, jhb171achill said:

Hi Mark

For the period you are modelling, almost all wagons and rolling stock, unfortunately, would have to be scratch-built, if accuracy is required.

If you have got Ernie Shepherd's book, you will see the typical "soft-top" convertible van which abounds. Some open-top cattle trucks might still be seen, though they were meant to be covering them up. Only open wagons were broadly similar. Horse boxes - you are aware of the kit. Locomotives - again, scratch-building, I'm afraid.

If you ever heard of the late Richard Chown's "Castle Rackrent", a famous "0" gauge layout, he did all that, and some sixty years or so ago to boot. His layout was primarily WLWR-orientated, though of course this line met the MGWR at Athenry, Claremorris and Collooney. But it gives a nice flavour of the period.

I'll post some photos in a moment - all taken from Ernie Shepherd's book, the IRRS "picture album", and "Rails to Achill".

 

 

Dear Jonathan,

Many thanks for your posts, and especially the photographs!

I'm happy scratch-building, although I'm not a fast worker! Any (good!) kits that are suitable are consequently extremely welcome, such as the JM Design horsebox and meat/fish van kits.

I do have Ernie Shepherd's book, and I'm hoping to be able to get a copy of the IRRS MGWR Picture Book.

The open-topped cattle wagons would be a distinctive and interesting addition to the roster, if drawings are available - perhaps in the Broadstone Series or the IRRS Compendium?

I've certainly heard of Richard Chown and Castle Rackrent - I seem to recall an article in Railway Modeller many moons ago that I was extremely taken with. It may well have been Castle Rackrent that originally sparked my interest in Irish Broad Gauge!

Thanks once again for all your help and advice!

With kind regards,

Mark

Edited May 1, 2020 by 2996 Victor

[2996 Victor]

36 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Fantastic photos, thank you! So much of huge interest - the convertible goods wagon and the butter wagon in particular are full of atmosphere and useful detail!

Thank you again and kind regards,

Mark

[jhb171achill]

The IRRS has indeed published a lot of drawings - I don't know the full extent as I only have the GSWR book myself. Richard McLachlann is your man on that one - he spent ages scanning the originals over some years. He was, as I understand,  the driving force behind pubishhing them (along, sadly, with the late Anthony McDonald).

I was just looking to see if i had a spare copy of the IRRS "pic album" which I could have sent you - but I've just realised on searching for it that I donated it to the RPSI last year on the May Tour!

[2996 Victor]

I'm intending to join the IRRS as soon as I can, so I'll be able to get in touch with Richard MacLachlann. The compendium will definitely not be a cheap investment, but hopefully a worthwhile one!

With kind regards,

Mark

[jhb171achill]

Indeed - it's FAR from cheap - but as we all know in the model world, it's well worth paying for quality.

[Noel]

Those photos pure treasure Jonathan @jhb171achill. Some of those wagons looked very short, especially the DSER one. Transporting cattle in open wagons does sound daft (ie with covers off the convertibles) as for years road HGVs used to transport cattle were open 1970s and 1980s.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Noel

[Midland Man]

I been a member for 3 years now and I have to say the indfomation is priceless. Ernie Shepard is a member a rights in th journals quite often. As for MGWR stuff a lot of it will be in older journals with his can be bought for penny's second hand. Cart wait to sea what you make as from the English stuff you have a lot of experience. My favorite thing about model railways is that unlike Hobys like golf or cycling you're wealth is not about what kit or expensive bike or driver you have its what you know that is you're wealth not what you got. Keep it up.

MM

[Midland Man]

Just now, jhb171achill said:

Love the pics I have seen a lot of them that is because my Grandad was given a copy before he died and it was  the only book I wanted to read. By the way I gave your book on Achill to me Grandmother am she thought it was a great read.

MM

[Galteemore]

Good point in the previous post, MM. This has got to be one of the best interests in the world - so much to learn but can be accessed at all kinds of price levels: from pop barons like Pete Waterman and Rod Stewart right down to the rest of us!

Edited April 28, 2020 by Galteemore

[jhb171achill]

Yes, a few observations about the above photos, which i forgot to add.

They DID use a shorter wheelbase then - not just vans, but cattle trucks and open wagons too. Also, a more pronounced curve to roofs, which were a lot lower. Look in the pics above, many of which date from the 1920s and later. NEWER wagons were higher, with roofs flatter.

Photos 1 & 5 show "soft-tops" as the railwaymen called them, or officially convertible wagons. I am unaware of these being used in any country outside Ireland; hopefully someone might educate me here on external examples? The top photo of the DSER one (a long way from home at Achill) shows where the open centre part has been subsequently covered over.

Like conventional vans, roofs were timber, covered in heavy canvas, sandwiched in between layers of pitch. This was then painted - I did this myself on early carriage repairs at Whitehead in the '70s. But economy often resulted in corrugated iron replacements - these were especially prevalent on the County Donegal Railways but can also be seen here.

In photo 5, you see the three stages. In the middle and older "soft top". To the right, a van of the same or slightly later period. to the left, a later one still, more in keeping with dimensions used from about 1915/8 onwards.

The purpose of a "soft-top" was that with a tarpaulin across the middle bit, it could be used for general goods, as a goods van, but with the tarp removed it could be used for cattle. 

Being a primarily agricultural country, with no huge coal or iron ore mines, no massive steelworks, oil refineries or the like (we did not HAVE the minerals and raw materials in the ground!), cattle was the mainstay of most rural Irish railway lines for many decades, so these wagons made sense to build economically.

 

 

Also, the third last pic shows the difference between "ancient" and "modern" dimensions very well.

[Angus]

A question about the DSER van in the first photo are the doors a different colour to the body of have they just been recently replaced?

5 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

and I'm hoping to be able to get a copy of the IRRS MGWR Picture Book.

I have a spare bought by mistake if you want a copy?

[Midland Man]

Unfortunately the book has a lot of CIE photos and quite little MGWR. Check out the Ken null colection as that has a lot of MGWR in MGWR days. Have you put up the work bench tread as a lot of people (in my mind a lot of people but you never know) would really like to sea so of the modeling and learn tips( that includes me) in painting excetra.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Angus said:

A question about the DSER van in the first photo are the doors a different colour to the body of have they just been recently replaced?

 

Just more recently replaced. This picture was taken nine years into GSR days (1934) by Henry Casserley, so the paintwork will be very tatty indeed - which, of course, was typical; pristine wagons never look right on any layout, though I'll happily concede that not everyone likes weathering things!

The wagon number is shown as 523. In reality, by this stage, it was 523D.

Sometimes on wagons you'd see the originating company letter added, without a full repaint, but this one doesn't even have that. Railway staff would have reported any defects on it as 523D, as the GSWR doubtless would have also had a 523, and a Midland one would now be 523M.

[Mayner]

The MGWR covered cattle wagons were quite different in design to other companies cattle wagons and made up a relatively small proportion of the livestock carrying fleet with over 1613 Convertible & 450 Covered cattle wagons in service in 1924.

Some of the cattle wagons were vacuum piped and later fitted with vacuum brake gear which indicates that they are likely to have been used for urgent traffic running in passenger and mail trains.

The Midland tended to go through phases of rebuilding open cattle wagons as standard covered wagons, eliminating the type by 1885 then building small batches between 1885 & 1895. 

Unfortunately I have been unable to find a good close up photos of the MGWR covered cattle wagons or find a drawing or photo of the open cattle wagons.

Upper photo un-credited, lower photo ©L&GRP 22486 Loco No133 "Titian" both photos appear to have been taken at the same location on the same day.

Jack Kennedy's photo of  129 "Celtic" one of the MGWRs largest and most prestigious main line passenger loco on a cattle train at Athenry illustrates the relative importance of cattle traffic on the Midland compared to other Irish railways, as Jack once commented the MGWR would not have been interested in "The High Speed Train" (IC125) unless it was capable of hauling a cattle train. The Midlands express passenger locos had relatively small 6'3" driving wheels compared to similar GSWR & GNR locos to improve their ability to haul mail and cattle trains, the D & K Class 2-4-0s & F Class 0-6-0s were true mixed traffic engines with 5'8" driving wheels similar in concept to the Scottish "Intermediate" 4-4-0s similar to the North British "Glen Class" & Highland "Loch" Class.

Nice to see the photo of the 1898 MGWR Guinness Wagon, these were basically a lengthened hard topped version of the Standard Covered Wagon or convertible.  Some of the more modern 10T covered wagons introduced for Guinness traffic in 1915 may have carried Guinness labelling, these wagons were similar in appearance to the Irish Railway Clearing House standard covered wagons used by the GNR(I) & SLNCR and the Provincial Wagons kits.

Edited April 28, 2020 by Mayner

[2996 Victor]

Dear All,

apologies for not having posted sooner, especially after all the fantastic info you've all provided - I was otherwise engaged yesterday afternoon and evening, and didn't have time last night to respond! So I hope you'll all forgive me for having been quiet.

20 hours ago, Midland Man said:

I been a member for 3 years now and I have to say the indfomation is priceless. Ernie Shepard is a member a rights in th journals quite often. As for MGWR stuff a lot of it will be in older journals with his can be bought for penny's second hand. Cart wait to sea what you make as from the English stuff you have a lot of experience. My favorite thing about model railways is that unlike Hobys like golf or cycling you're wealth is not about what kit or expensive bike or driver you have its what you know that is you're wealth not what you got. Keep it up.

MM

MM, I absolutely agree, and what you say about the model railway hobby is spot-on - it's a community thing with the sharing of knowledge, both of the prototype and how to reproduce it in miniature, and it's great to be in the company of like-minded folks!

15 hours ago, Midland Man said:

Unfortunately the book has a lot of CIE photos and quite little MGWR. Check out the Ken null colection as that has a lot of MGWR in MGWR days. Have you put up the work bench tread as a lot of people (in my mind a lot of people but you never know) would really like to sea so of the modeling and learn tips( that includes me) in painting excetra.

That's a bit of a shame, but I suppose that only a limited number of period photos actually exist - like all these things it's a question of whether an enthusiast with a camera happened to be in the right place at the right time. I haven't put up my workbench thread yet, hopefully in the next couple of days, but I'll make a note of it on here when I finally do!

All the best,

Mark

15 hours ago, Angus said:

A question about the DSER van in the first photo are the doors a different colour to the body of have they just been recently replaced?

I have a spare bought by mistake if you want a copy?

Hi Angus,

Many thanks for your kind offer - I'll PM you, if that's okay!

Best regards,

Mark

[2996 Victor]

19 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Yes, a few observations about the above photos, which i forgot to add.

They DID use a shorter wheelbase then - not just vans, but cattle trucks and open wagons too. Also, a more pronounced curve to roofs, which were a lot lower. Look in the pics above, many of which date from the 1920s and later. NEWER wagons were higher, with roofs flatter.

Photos 1 & 5 show "soft-tops" as the railwaymen called them, or officially convertible wagons. I am unaware of these being used in any country outside Ireland; hopefully someone might educate me here on external examples? The top photo of the DSER one (a long way from home at Achill) shows where the open centre part has been subsequently covered over.

Like conventional vans, roofs were timber, covered in heavy canvas, sandwiched in between layers of pitch. This was then painted - I did this myself on early carriage repairs at Whitehead in the '70s. But economy often resulted in corrugated iron replacements - these were especially prevalent on the County Donegal Railways but can also be seen here.

In photo 5, you see the three stages. In the middle and older "soft top". To the right, a van of the same or slightly later period. to the left, a later one still, more in keeping with dimensions used from about 1915/8 onwards.

The purpose of a "soft-top" was that with a tarpaulin across the middle bit, it could be used for general goods, as a goods van, but with the tarp removed it could be used for cattle. 

Being a primarily agricultural country, with no huge coal or iron ore mines, no massive steelworks, oil refineries or the like (we did not HAVE the minerals and raw materials in the ground!), cattle was the mainstay of most rural Irish railway lines for many decades, so these wagons made sense to build economically.

 

 

Also, the third last pic shows the difference between "ancient" and "modern" dimensions very well.

Hi Jonathan,

again a wealth of information, thank you! The use of "convertibles" is all but unknown on English railways - occasionally some vans, usually as part of a larger "lot", would be fitted with a sliding roof door. The architypal assymetric Midland van (a la Slater's kit) is a type that springs to mind, and I understand that some of the GWR's tallest (8' high) wooden vans were so built, although I don't recall seeing a photograph. Dedicated cattle wagons were more the norm. Interestingly, having seen how the percentages of open box wagons stack up against the convertibles, the opposite was the case in England with numbers of opens far-outweighing covered wagons.

With kind regards,

Mark

[2996 Victor]

13 hours ago, Mayner said:

The MGWR covered cattle wagons were quite different in design to other companies cattle wagons and made up a relatively small proportion of the livestock carrying fleet with over 1613 Convertible & 450 Covered cattle wagons in service in 1924.

Some of the cattle wagons were vacuum piped and later fitted with vacuum brake gear which indicates that they are likely to have been used for urgent traffic running in passenger and mail trains.

The Midland tended to go through phases of rebuilding open cattle wagons as standard covered wagons, eliminating the type by 1885 then building small batches between 1885 & 1895. 

Unfortunately I have been unable to find a good close up photos of the MGWR covered cattle wagons or find a drawing or photo of the open cattle wagons.

Upper photo un-credited, lower photo ©L&GRP 22486 Loco No133 "Titian" both photos appear to have been taken at the same location on the same day.

Jack Kennedy's photo of  129 "Celtic" one of the MGWRs largest and most prestigious main line passenger loco on a cattle train at Athenry illustrates the relative importance of cattle traffic on the Midland compared to other Irish railways, as Jack once commented the MGWR would not have been interested in "The High Speed Train" (IC125) unless it was capable of hauling a cattle train. The Midlands express passenger locos had relatively small 6'3" driving wheels compared to similar GSWR & GNR locos to improve their ability to haul mail and cattle trains, the D & K Class 2-4-0s & F Class 0-6-0s were true mixed traffic engines with 5'8" driving wheels similar in concept to the Scottish "Intermediate" 4-4-0s similar to the North British "Glen Class" & Highland "Loch" Class.

Nice to see the photo of the 1898 MGWR Guinness Wagon, these were basically a lengthened hard topped version of the Standard Covered Wagon or convertible.  Some of the more modern 10T covered wagons introduced for Guinness traffic in 1915 may have carried Guinness labelling, these wagons were similar in appearance to the Irish Railway Clearing House standard covered wagons used by the GNR(I) & SLNCR and the Provincial Wagons kits.

Hi John,

excellent photos, thank you! The dedicated cattle wagons are an interesting design, and its also interesting to note the convertible marshalled next to a cattle wagon in the first photograph. The idea of using convertibles for general goods traffic and livestock seems a bit alien to me, having been brought up on English railways! The limewash around the louvres is characteristic, isn't it? The side view in the second picture could be used to create a drawing if necessary, working on know dimesions such as wheel diameters and the known dimensions of "Titan".

The cattle wagons look quite familiar in their design - I'll have to see if I can find anything similar. London & South Western Railway seems to ring a bell, for some reason, but they could equally be similar to most English cattle wagons with the exception of the GWR, of course. I'd certainly like to include some open cattle wagons in my fleet, but if they were camera-shy and no drawings exist, then that's off the agenda, unfortunately.

With kind regards,

Mark

[airfixfan]

Check IRRS Journal 55 and 56 for a detailed article on MGWR coaches.

[Galteemore]

On 4/24/2020 at 9:11 PM, StevieB said:

The articles by David Malone in RailModel Digest featured his layout Cliffoney, the might have been MGWR line from Sligo to Bundoran. Sadly, apart from a couple of photos in Modelling Irish Railways, it has never featured in any other magazine, unless someone knows better.

Stephen

Some issues  are still available from Wizard Models at a fair price - https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/?s=Rail+model+digest+&post_type=product - 1 2 and 6 feature David Malone’s stuff. Seems like remaindered stock rather than s/h.

Edited April 29, 2020 by Galteemore

[2996 Victor]

10 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Some issues  are still available from Wizard Models at a fair price - https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/?s=Rail+model+digest+&post_type=product - 1 2 and 6 feature David Malone’s stuff. Seems like remaindered stock rather than s/h.

These magazines are well-worth seeking out, and not just for David Malone's articles. As far as I know, there was a Preview Issue and six numbered issues, and unfortunately that's as far as it went.

David Malone's "Modelling the Irish Broad Gauge" articles appeared in Issue 1 (Part 1: A Bit of Background Blarney), along with a separate two-page colour spread, Issue 2 (Part 2: Building 5ft 3ins PW), Issue 4 (Part 3: Signalling) and Issue 6 (Part 4: Irish Goods Stock).

Definitely plenty of useful information in these magazines!

With kind regards,

Mark

[Midland Man]

does any one have pics of Malone's layout? i have never seen it fully.

[Mayner]

7 hours ago, Midland Man said:

does any one have pics of Malone's layout? i have never seen it fully.

David sent me some some photos which I have somewhere but cannot find, not much progress  on the layout in recent years just an open frame baseboard with a raised trackbed, some track laid, a Sligo Road station building and a signal box. The buildings appear in one of the MRD articles.

[2996 Victor]

The Historical Model Railway Society has a number of MGWR drawings and photographs, including such gems as:

Open Cattle Wagon, 8ft w/b, 14ft 2ins o/b dated 1885
Ballast Wagon, 9ft w/b, 15ft o/h dated 1894
Covered Goods, 8ft w/b, 14ft-2ins o/b dated 1895

There are also quite a lot of other goods wagon and carriage drawings available, although as there aren't thumbnails of these it's difficult to tell exactly what they are, as well as photographs of mainly the locomotive stock. Unfortunately (and I say this knowing and taking into account that the HMRS is run entirely by volunteers in their spare time), the drawing and photograph service is slow at the best of times. At the moment it's completely shut down, of course.

There are also some drawings in "19th Century Railway Drawings in 4mm Scale" by Alan Prior: a GS&WR convertible, and an open cattle and a coal wagon from the Ulster Railway.

As an aside, there's a rather nice open cattle wagon kit available from 5&9 Models, but its not an Irish prototype, of course!

All the best,

Mark

[Mayner]

7 hours ago, 2996 Victor said:

The Historical Model Railway Society has a number of MGWR drawings and photographs, including such gems as:

Open Cattle Wagon, 8ft w/b, 14ft 2ins o/b dated 1885
Ballast Wagon, 9ft w/b, 15ft o/h dated 1894
Covered Goods, 8ft w/b, 14ft-2ins o/b dated 1895

There are also quite a lot of other goods wagon and carriage drawings available, although as there aren't thumbnails of these it's difficult to tell exactly what they are, as well as photographs of mainly the locomotive stock. Unfortunately (and I say this knowing and taking into account that the HMRS is run entirely by volunteers in their spare time), the drawing and photograph service is slow at the best of times. At the moment it's completely shut down, of course.

There are also some drawings in "19th Century Railway Drawings in 4mm Scale" by Alan Prior: a GS&WR convertible, and an open cattle and a coal wagon from the Ulster Railway.

As an aside, there's a rather nice open cattle wagon kit available from 5&9 Models, but its not an Irish prototype, of course!

All the best,

Mark

Richard Chown modelled Castlerackrent as WLWR rather than the MGWR  railway apparently because of the availability of British builders drawings from museums and societies like the HMRS.

The GSWR & MGWR built most of their locos and stock from the 1870s onwards while the smaller companies like the W&L and CBSCR bought most of their locos and stock from British builders.

[Mike 84C]

Any ideas as to the purpose of the small casting each side of the doors on the MGW  convertibles?  I wondered if they were for grain in bulk but  I would have thought that grain was in  2, 1/4 cwt  sacks at that time period.  In one of the photos, lets call it a vent, appears at a different angle so maybe open?

[jhb171achill]

59 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

Any ideas as to the purpose of the small casting each side of the doors on the MGW  convertibles?  I wondered if they were for grain in bulk but  I would have thought that grain was in  2, 1/4 cwt  sacks at that time period.  In one of the photos, lets call it a vent, appears at a different angle so maybe open?

Which photo? I think I know what you're looking at but can you confirm....

[Mayner]

I think Mike is referring to this one

The vents or whatever their purpose were a standard detail on MGWR Standard Covered Wagons and would have been very small for unloading grain.

Its just about possible bulk grain was carried in these wagons and discharged through the doors, just as boxcars were used in the States & Canada up to the widespread introduction of grain hoppers in the 1980s.

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Search/Results?lookfor=ballysadare+mill&type=AllFields&submit=FIND&filter[]=authorStr%3A"French%2C+Robert%2C+1841-1917+photographer"&filter[]=format%3A"Photo"&filter[]=digitised%3A"Digitised"

The overhead gantry above the sidings at Ballysadare opens up all sorts of interesting possibilities.

[jhb171achill]

Ah, that.  I thought the comment referred to maybe hooks for holding the ropes of the tarpaulins. 

I have no idea what the above castings were. As you say, probably too small for grain, and I think in any case it’s almost certain that bulk grain wasn’t carried in vehicles like these.....

[2996 Victor]

5 hours ago, Mayner said:

I think Mike is referring to this one

The vents or whatever their purpose were a standard detail on MGWR Standard Covered Wagons and would have been very small for unloading grain.

Its just about possible bulk grain was carried in these wagons and discharged through the doors, just as boxcars were used in the States & Canada up to the widespread introduction of grain hoppers in the 1980s.

http://catalogue.nli.ie/Search/Results?lookfor=ballysadare+mill&type=AllFields&submit=FIND&filter[]=authorStr%3A"French%2C+Robert%2C+1841-1917+photographer"&filter[]=format%3A"Photo"&filter[]=digitised%3A"Digitised"

The overhead gantry above the sidings at Ballysadare opens up all sorts of interesting possibilities.

Hi John,

I'm afraid I've no idea what the castings are that @Mike 84C is referring to, although at first I wondered if they were label boxes for consignment labels, then looking at the shape of them again, I wondered if could they be drains for washing out after the vehicle has been used for livestock, but I suspect they're too far up the vehicle's sides.

Thanks for the link, those photos are full of atmosphere and great detail on the convertibles, including useful numbering!

With kind regards,

Mark

Edited May 1, 2020 by 2996 Victor