WT Jeep Build

[KMCE]

Now for something completely different.

 

Some time ago I purchased the WT Jeep loco body kit from Worsley Works - it really is a scratch aid kit, as it arrives with nothing but the etches themselves.  There is some text on a number of the parts in the etch (5), but generally you are on your own.

I haven’t seen anyone build one on this site (I’m sure someone will point me to a post), so I figured I would share the journey.

 

First the etches.  They have been etched from 0.3mm brass, which is fine for most of the underframe parts, however the detail etches are in the order of 0.11mm which is quite thin and care is needed removing them from the fret and also filing back the tabs.

What is interesting is that some of the parts need to be cut from the etch as instead of a tab, part of the outline is only half etched - note the top of the structural side at the top of the cab.  Not a big issue, but not immediately obvious.

 

I first removed the footplate and one side etch & associated detail etch to get a look at how they fit.  The set in the footplate is easily done and fits very well to the side.  On a side note, so far, the kit appears to be very well dimensioned.  Things fit together well with minimal fuss, so progress is relatively quick.  One issue that needs to be addressed is the tabs are too long – they look short on the etch, but when mated to their associated slot, they protrude too far, particularly where details etches are overlaid.  Quick trim with a file generally sorts it out.

 

Long detail side etch was sweated onto the side etch & footplate added.  The wrap around for the front of the tank is just a fraction short, but is not the end of the world – I may file back the under frame to match the detail.  Those familiar with Worsley etch will have experienced this before.

 

I decided not to add the detail etchs for the end & rear quarter at this stage as I wanted to be sure the detail etches line up on the corners.  

 

Bunker base, and cab rear fitted in very well.

 

Bunker upper detailing is proving a head scratcher.  The fold over on the side is fine.  There is a section to support the bunker upper side overlay which fits in the slot in the cab rear, but when the overlay is added, it protrudes above the detail. The other issue is that the overlay is not obvious in the fret – the two parts appear as one with a fold line, again these need to be scribed apart before fitting.  Lines are drawn by me to line up with the indentations in the fret to assist in folding.

My options are to cut back the support or leave it out; it may be better to cut back as the overlays are very thin and would prove delicate when handling in the future.

 

All for now, will post more as time permits.

 

Ken

[RichL]

Really pleased you are doing a step by step build on here as I was thinking about buying one myself. Your experience will be very helpful. well done so far!

[jhb171achill]

That is a really interesting thread - many thanks - and it's looking great already.

A much-ignored but essential piece of our railway history, and crying out for a RTR version. I'll take three........

[Horsetan]

Someone was already having a go at this back in September 2018 - this was on display at Scaleforum at the time:

I think it was the same fella who built this "W":

I still haven't bought a "WT" from Alan, as he (still) hasn't finished his chassis etch design for it yet. 

[Galteemore]

Although intriguingly, that looks very like a 2-6-4 chassis etch in the pictures....

[jhb171achill]

That NCC 2.6.0 is a masterpiece! What gauge is it, do you know?

[Midland Man]

It looks OO. The 4-4-0 behind it featured in new Irish a while back I think it was 2016.

[Galteemore]

It’s 21mm gauge. I saw it at Scaleforum last year 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Galteemore

[Horsetan]

34 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Although intriguingly, that looks very like a 2-6-4 chassis etch in the pictures....

Yes, the builder couldn't wait for Alan to do the dedicated "WT" chassis (which will have spacers for 21mm gauge), so is using the Comet chassis for the Fowler 4P 2-6-4T. He'll probably have finished the model by now.

C'mon now, Alan, get the run of yourself and do the chassis, please! We're still waiting!

Edited June 11, 2020 by Horsetan

[popeye]

You are a pioneer, i have faith in you.

This will be nice to follow. 

[David Holman]

The Worsley Works portfolio is vast, covering as it does, many scales too. Am guessing that Alan uses CAD, so once a drawing is made, 're-scaling' is largely a click of a mouse. However, to create all the drawings in the first place is quite remarkable, not least in sourcing originals to work from.

 As for the Jeep, very much looking forward to seeing progress, while the photos of loco s at Scaleforum remind us that there is a wealth of quality modelling out the that rarely gets seen.

 Well done Ken and keep posting!

[KMCE]

20 hours ago, KMCE said:

My options are to cut back the support or leave it out;

It turned out to be neither.  I trimmed the tab back on the suport and moved it down and over to match the overlay.  Gives better support & fits better with the overall look.  This did leave the slot exposed, but a quick bit of solder plugged it.  A little bit of filing here to smooth the surface was need to be sure the rear of the cab looked flush.

 

Going back to an earlier comment regarding tabs.  This photo shows how much the tabs can protrude.  The tabs on the side have already be filed down so they are flush.

 

So progressing with second side, bunker upper sides & etches to get to a basic body.  Detail etches were added for end and rear quarters.  The decision to leave them till now paid off, as it was possible to get a tight fit at the rear corner which will be most visible.  

What is nice about this loco is the tapering to the rear of the bunker from the cab.  It's difficult to see in most photos (here & prototype); there is a difference in overall width of c. 1.5mm between cab and rear of the bunker, and looks rather well - I'll take an overhead photo next time to illustrate this.

I mention this, as when you line everything up in the rear corner and work towards the cab, you are a fraction short of the door ope on the underframe.  Not really noticible , but its worth noting as an issue if others cannot get it to line up.

I will need to dress the seams between the rear detail etch & under frame - it looks like a gap in the photo, but I think it is more down to rounding of the edges of the two sections.  Some filing, or perhaps filling should sort this.

 

Then we came to the first real problem - the roof.  This time the roof fits, but the sides are too high:

I had an inkling this was likely to happen as I built, however I elected to go on and sort it when the time came.  It took some amount of filing to reduce the height (earlier images will give an idea) & the options here are to file before construction, or once in place.  I think that while filing in place is more difficult, it is easier to see how you are progressing in relation to the cab curves.  It also means you can angle the filing to allow the roof follow the profile, rather that reaching a right angle.  After much filing I managed to get the profile right & fixed on the roof.  Here was another problem - when I design & build, I normally leave out the cab floor, so I can fix the roof from the inside - this is not possible due to the footplate design, so fixing on the outside is needed.  

The solder will need to be tidied up here to ensure crips lines to the roof; bit of a pain, but there is no alternative that I can see.  Perhaps a cut out in the floor prior to construction may be an option, with a pach soldered in later to maintain the floor.  THe floor will be needed as the view into the cab is quite open.  I will have to put crew in, as there is no back head detail, and come to think of it, no real means of painting the interior either.  I may cut an ope to give me access to sort these issues, and perhaps screw / glue it into place once details are added.

 

Moving on, I complete the smoke box saddle and lower foot plate.  The kit comes with a small third etch with a longer front footplate & intermediate steps.  Not sure why the shorter was included in the etch, as most photos of early & late models have the longer front footplate?

Moving on to boiler & smokebox now,  so will keep you abreast of progress as time permits.

Ken

[Galteemore]

Interesting and fine work Ken. Those rear tabs on the bunker look useful for locating the steps - that’s a trick Alphagraphix use with some of their tank locos.

[Mike 84C]

Are you going to use an etched chassis kit or scratch build one?  I bid on a hornby Fowler chassis ( didnt get it!) as I run on 16.5 gauge with the intention  of buying that body kit. It seemed like a quick fix to me, am I right? would the Hornby  chassis work?

        Thanks for posting  and I look forward to the finished loco.

[KMCE]

MIke,

My intention is to scratch build my own chassis.  The kit is advertised to fit the Hornby chassis, however the Fowler chassis I have (old I admit) does not quite fit.  I'm working with 21mm, so the Hornby chassis would not work for me anyway.

 

Generally it fits with the excpetion of the rear drivers which catch the step in the  footplate.

To be fair, it does not impinge too mucth, perhaps 5mm, so with some judicial trimming into the step & cab floor, it should fit. 

Hope that helps.

 

As to the chassis, having taken some measurments, I noted that there were a few discrepancies compared to the Fowler chassis.  Wheel size on my fowler is 5' 6" where the prototype is 6'.  Also the axle spacing is different.  I have drafted up a chassis with correct spacing & adjusted for larger drivers.  I was going to use the runnig gear, but it looks like I will need to make coupling & connecting rods - the rest, I may be able to use.

WIth the revised spacing & wheel size, the rear drivers will impact on the cab area even more, so looks like I will be cutting into the cab floor anyway, so I may fix some of the issues noted above.

 

While I'm here, does anyone have a drawing of a WT chassis I could use for reference?  I can share the results of drawings once developed for the model.

 

Ken

[Horsetan]

5 hours ago, KMCE said:

...., I noted that there were a few discrepancies compared to the Fowler chassis.  Wheel size on my fowler is 5' 6" where the prototype is 6'.  Also the axle spacing is different.  I have drafted up a chassis with correct spacing & adjusted for larger drivers.  I was going to use the runnig gear, but it looks like I will need to make coupling & connecting rods - the rest, I may be able to use.

WIth the revised spacing & wheel size, the rear drivers will impact on the cab area even more, so looks like I will be cutting into the cab floor anyway, so I may fix some of the issues noted above.

 

While I'm here, does anyone have a drawing of a WT chassis I could use for reference?  I can share the results of drawings once developed for the model.

 

I had understood the "WT" frames to be the Midland standard 8' x 8'6". Do you have something different?

Also, the "WT" driving wheels are exactly the same as the LMS "Black Five" in diameter, number of spokes,  bevelled rims, etc.

[Midland Man]

The WT you could say had the best of all worlds. At the time the LMS were working on the flying pig and the 10000 diesel. The did not have the time to build a brand new loco with brand me parts for Ireland so they used what they had at the time. The result one of the best tank engine designs in Britain and Ireland. 

[airfixfan]

Diagrams of the Jeep are in Scott's book and there was an article on their design in an issue of Five Foot Three.

[Mike 84C]

Ken, interestingly on RM WEB there's  a thread by BARRY TEN putting a Comet chassis under a Hornby  Fowler 2-6-4 body. Although the chassis is designed to fit there seem to be more than enough problems!  I thought it may be of interest?  And thanks for the very prompt reply to my question.

   Mick

[KMCE]

All, thanks for the input,

I have the same drawing noted above and have developed my chassis from this drawing but was looking to see if anyone had a more detailed drawing.

I may press on with what I have and see how it turns out - it shouldn't be far off, as it is very difficult to see the frames in any on the photos I've seen!

In the meantime, I may do some research on the book by Scott & the article in Five Foot Three.

More as time permits

Ken

 

[KMCE]

So, some progress.

 

Initially rolled the boiler barrel and smoke box sections & while the smoke box sections were fine, the boiler barrel had a tendancy to kink where holes were included. 

To avoid this, I cut some discs to create form work to allow soldering.  This worked well and allowed the completion of the boiler.

Smokebox wrappers were attached  and soldered at the bottom where they joined.  I added a disc to the front of the smokebox, as there is nothing in the kit to close off the front end of the boiler.  A cast smoke box door can be added later to finish this.

 

Moving on to the firebox, the kit provides some nice formers, complete with holes to allow lining up and wrapping of the firebox.  Very nice detail & allows this section to be created without too much difficulty.

 

Alas, spoke too soon.   Washout plugs are below the tank level!

 

What I didn't note in my earlier posts, is that there is a third etch fret with the kit, much smaller which included revised (longer) front foot plate sections and a firebox wrap.

 

Now I know why this was provided.  I undid the firebox wrap to save the formers and went at it with the new etch.  Much better.

 

Now to join boiler to firebox, mount the saddle & we're done.  Eh - no!

 

Take away the saddle and let the boiler mate to the firebox, the smokebox sits below the footplate level.

Quck check with a few photos of the prototype & sure enough the smokebox is below the footplate level, however there is some evidence of a saddle above the footplate, so this will need a little thnking about.

 

Now boiler is in place a quick look around spotted another issue that will need to be resolved.   Proportioning of the boiler and tanks is good which means there is space between the boiler and side tanks (as there would be), however with no internal wall to the tanks, the gap doesnt look right.

A quick strip of brass will solve the issue, and thankfully the boiler is only tacked in position for the moment and will come back out quite easily.

 

 

Next thing to resolve is the cutout to allow the motor sit over the chassis.  I cut back the boiler to almost half circle but stopped well short of the tank sides to be sure this would not be visible from any angle, particualarly from above.

 

This provides plenty of space for my setup as I am making my own chassis and will drive the centre axle, however it's not so good for the Hornby chassis. 

For those who asked about fittment to an RTR chassis, I have two versions of the Hornby chassis, older & newer, and it would require considerable cutting to the smoke box to allow either to fit; the worst being the newer chassis.

Older chassis - Motor is fouling the firebox formers, but with some minor cutting this could be made fit.  The higher chassis at front would need a slot cut out of the smoke box to fit.

 

Newer chassis - motor is shorter, however much further forward.  This would need a considerable cut out of the smokebox, which may be visible when the front footplate is added.  I think the older chassis may be eaiser to work with if I were going that route.

 

Moving on,

The lower footplate was offered up to the chassis now that the boiler is in place, but to me it doesn't look right; front footplate and frames appear too narrow.  Frames do not line up with the insides of the upper footplate, however this maybe to suit a OO chassis.  Spacing of the upper footplate suits a 21mm setup. 

The width of the footplate seems well short of the main upper footplate.  A quick check on the drawings does note a slight difference in width c. 0.75mm either side at scale level or 2 - 2.5" on the prototype.  In photos of the prototype the width of both footplates appear the same, however photo angles may not allow a good view.  

I have allowed a new lower foot plate in my chassis design, so this will be replaced as part of the chassis development.

 

More as time permits.

Ken

[Galteemore]

Thanks Ken. Good masterclass on the work involved in bringing an etch to life.

[Mike 84C]

Also thanks from me Ken, those pictures of the Hornby  Chassis are very useful and I think using  either chassis is making a lot of work which may easily need a lot of cutting .  Your scratch built or a Comet chassis sounds like the way to go.

[David Holman]

A really interesting and enjoyable project to follow. Nice one, Ken.

[KMCE]

Thanks for the comments, guys - they are much appreciated.

 

OK - Moving on.

Looking at the reminaing fretwork, the kit is generally complete at this point.  There are some parts left for steps, lamp irons, cylinder wrappers and a roof hatch cover, but that's pretty much it.  

In terms of a build, it generally is a good kit, parts fitted very well, with the odd exception as noted above.  Detail is good, and I particularly like the tapering of the bunker from the cab area - doesn't really come out well in photos, but is quite pronounced from above.

 

As can be seen, there is a long way to go before you will have a model, so some more work is needed.

 

Chassis - From the drawing I had, I developed a chassis, spacers, brakes & hangars, pony & trailing bogies, plus the replacement parts for the front footplate. 

 

It was necesary to make a new buffer to fit the wider footplate, so that was done and rivet detail added.  The other that needed to be changed is the kit does not reflect the sliding coupling hook slot; it has a basic vertical slot for a fixed coupling hook.  This was addressed in the revised buffer beam.

A suport for the boiler, which closes in the front of the frames was also made up and added which helps to build up the font foot plate area.  Steps and and triangular wing pieces needed for the front of the upper footplate.  I need to stablise the these foot plate elements as they are quite thin and will need suport in the final model; I may incorporate something with the wing pieces to provide stiffening.

 

Pony and trailing bogies were next up, and they folded up quite nicely. 

 

A cross brace was added to both bogies and then they were tried with the chassis for fit.

The rear bogie is a fraction too far back, but a small set in the trailing arm should both set the height & bring this back in line.  Some wheels would assist here as it will prove easier to line up with the arches in the frames.

 

As an aside, it's clear these locos were designed to operate very tight radii - arches in the chassis to allow bogie wheel movement, laterally sliding coupling hook and oval buffers.  Quite a good design!

 

Tubes for brake hangars and compensation beams were added which help to stiffen up the chassis to get ready for hornblock install.

 

So for now, we have a body sitting on a basic chassis.

More as time permits.

Ken

Edited June 23, 2020 by KMCE

[Midland Man]

Lovely stuff. Cart wait to sea it painted. One question and it's not about the model. What is the layout in the back on the last + third pic?

[airfixfan]

There is a very good article on the Jeeps with good photos from about 1950 and comparisons with the Fowler tanks in Railway Bylines May 2005.

[David Holman]

Already capturing the feel of the loco and no doubt will be quite an impressive beast when finished. Then you'll need another one and a spoil train, or maybe a tender for those long runs south...

[KMCE]

Guys,

 

Many thanks for the comments.

DH - One of these beasts is enough for now - chassis is coming along well but is taking some time to get right.  More to follow.

AF - I don't have that article but will try and get a look at it - Luckily there  are quite a number of photos of the locos avaialbe on line which is helping considerably with the build.  

MM - Layout is my shelf / test track, Wicklow South - it makes an occasional outing to Bray to stretch its legs!!

 

[murrayec]

15 minutes ago, KMCE said:

'' it makes an occasional outing to Bray to stretch its legs!!''

 

Hi Ken

July 12th is the next Train & Model Fair, welcome to bring the layout and the Jeep 'in build', I'm sure chaps would like to see it's progress......

Eoin

[airfixfan]

7 hours ago, KMCE said:

Guys,

 

Many thanks for the comments.

DH - One of these beasts is enough for now - chassis is coming along well but is taking some time to get right.  More to follow.

AF - I don't have that article but will try and get a look at it - Luckily there  are quite a number of photos of the locos avaialbe on line which is helping considerably with the build.  

MM - Layout is my shelf / test track, Wicklow South - it makes an occasional outing to Bray to stretch its legs!!

 

You can buy a 2and hand copy of that magazine. Try Vintage Carriages Trust for reliable service but do not try Magazine Exchange from personal experience.

[KMCE]

So, further progress.

There is quite amount of detail visible on the prototype which led me to develop some more detailing parts.  The original drawing was used to develop parts which were then cut out with the mill.

This included cylinder block, sand boxes, firebox, wheel counterweights, and missing from the photo, tank connection pipe boxes located under the cab.

 

The sandbox were trimmed and folded up into shape.

Fill pipe and sand pipe will be added afterwards once I can get them set on the chassis.  I propose to leave these until wheels and brakes are on to be sure a correct and non interference fit.

 

Tank connection pipe was next up which went together well and fits in rather nicely.  This is added to the footplate rather than the chassis so they line up with the tanks. 

 

Next up was cylinder construction.  Cut parts and pipes form the basis of the cylinder block - the wrapper is used from the Worsley Works kit. 

This took a bit of headscratching, as the wrapper is quite a bit shorter than the cylinder block, so with judicious use of photos to line up the plaque, it was possible to shape the wrapper to cover the cylinders even though the top is still exposed.  With the body on, this is not visible, so I'll go with it for now.  The etch does look good and finishes the cylinder block rather well.

 

Cylinder blocks were temporarily added to the chassis to see how it fits.  Triangular suports were added to the chassis to suport the front of the upper footplate - fiddly little buggers, but they should provide more support, and help to close the front end.

 

Well, you just got to put the body on & see how it looks.

This last photo shows the firebox detail and also the hornblocks for front and rear drivers.

Starting to take shape.

 

More as time permits.

Ken

[David Holman]

High quality workmanship! My 0-6-0 feels like a piece of cake by comparison, while getting all the pieces to sit together and look right is quite a task in itself.

 Reminds of the the Wrightlines Baldwin 4-6-0T (0n16.5) I built years ago. It was mostly white metal, so was assembled in sections, but when brought together everything was at odds with the next piece. Fortunately, the sum of the parts was greater than the whole, plus the Baldwin's were prototypically wonky anyway.

 The Jeep however, already has a real presence.

[KMCE]

On 7/1/2020 at 8:02 AM, David Holman said:

My 0-6-0 feels like a piece of cake by comparison

"The lady doth protest to much, me thinks" 

Your model is fantastic, and better yet finished.  You're not giving youself due credit for a excellently appointed locomotive!!

 

Ken

 

 

 

[KMCE]

On 6/29/2020 at 11:42 PM, murrayec said:

July 12th is the next Train & Model Fair, welcome to bring the layout and the Jeep 'in build',

Many thanks Eoin,

I will bring them along, and will also bring the DSER Armoured train as well - it's nearing completion & still unpainted, but I'm sure it will be grand.

Ken