What type of loco?

[Wexford70]

Hi guys,

 

This photo is for sale on eBay and says it is a GSR loco at Wexford. 

Can anyone identify the type of loco and rough date? Might it be a GSWR E3 0-4-4?

Edited July 3, 2020 by Wexford70

[airfixfan]

It is a GS&WR 0-4-4T locomotive.

[Irishswissernie]

GS&WR Class 47 , 78 built 1886 & withdrawn 1945. It woudn't have been at Wexford before grouping in 1925 as Wexford was Dublin & South Eastern Railway

Edited July 3, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[Wexford70]

Just now, airfixfan said:

It is a GS&WR 0-4-4T locomotive.

Cheers. Any idea where I could find more info?

It would have been in the late 1880 early 1890s?

 

1 minute ago, Irishswissernie said:

GS&WR Class 47 , 78 built 1886 & withdrawn 1945

They had a long life span! Were they for mixed traffic?

 

[Irishswissernie]

Initially light branch line passenger traffic but they would have handled mixed and goods trains on lightly used branch lines

Edited July 3, 2020 by Irishswissernie

[Wexford70]

2 minutes ago, Irishswissernie said:

Initially light branch line passenger traffic but they would have handled mixed and goods trains on lightly used branch lines

Wonder what it was doing in Wexford unless working Wexford to Rosslare for ferry traffic?

 

[Midland Man]

I believe they are E4s.(may be wrong)

33 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Wonder what it was doing in Wexford unless working Wexford to Rosslare for ferry traffic?

 

4-4-0s/0-6-0s would have ruled the rails around there back then. like many have said they were used on branch lines mainly around limerick.

MM

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Wexford70 said:

Hi guys,

 

This photo is for sale on eBay and says it is a GSR loco at Wexford. 

Can anyone identify the type of loco and rough date? Might it be a GSWR E3 0-4-4?

Yes, it's pure Inchicore! 

The GSWR operated Wexford - Rosslare locals.

It's after 1918 as the engine is in plain grey. Prior to that it would be very obviously lined (and black) as the GSWR made sure engines were clean.

It was one of sixteen built between 1879 and 1884 (this one 1886). They were class E3. Most were scrapped in the 1930s but this was one of a trio which survived as the last examples to 1945. They were initially used on branches in the south and south-west, and were very much associated with Cork, Waterford and that area. 

58 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Wonder what it was doing in Wexford unless working Wexford to Rosslare for ferry traffic?

 

Wexford - Rosslare locals, and possibly Rosslare - Waterford. If the picture is after 1925, I am sure they put in appearances on the North Wexford line from time to time. Cork suburban services had them too - they worked Youghal and Cobh trains too.

[DiveController]

It's official designation is a 0-4-4 BT (back tank, which is very rare, I don't know of any others personally) as they water tank was at the base and rear of the loco cab.

[Mayner]

A E3 (Class 47) appears to have been regularly allocated to Wexford in GSR days possibly for Rosslare-Wexford local trains and shunting, there is a photo of 49 shunting coaching stock at Wexford North in 1945. Apparently the 0-4-4Ts had a reputation for fast running working Cork-Cobh trains until replaced by the Ivatt 2-4-2T in the early 1900s and working Limerick-Abbeyfeale passenger trains into the 1930s.

A daily Wexford-Enniscorthy mixed train operated in the GSR/CIE steam era usually worked by an ex-WLWR 2-4-0 290. 290 seems to have been based in Wexford worked a train to Enniscorthy in the morning, before taking up pilot duties (shunting) at Enniscorthy and returned in the late afternoon with the mixed to Wexford. There is a photo of the afternoon mixed at Macmine Junction in Donal Murrays Great Southern Railway Pictorial, 290 is hauling a single 6 wheel coach and a train made up mainly of open wagons.

North Wexford line passenger trains also worked through to Wexford North in GSR & CIE days, running round and terminating local trains would have involved a lot of shunting with a single platform face and may have justified a tank loco as a shunter in addition to the locos working the scheduled passenger and mixed trains.

The Wexford-Rosslare local passenger trains continued to operate during the Summer Holiday season with a B141 & CIE Bredin stock until the service was withdrawn in the late 1970s

[RichL]

12 hours ago, DiveController said:

It's official designation is a 0-4-4 BT (back tank, which is very rare, I don't know of any others personally) as they water tank was at the base and rear of the loco cab.

American Forney tanks were amongst, if not the first with that configuration. Very popular for a while on urban lines, including the overhead railways like New York. Also popular for a while on suburban duties in Britain (MIdland, Great Northern, North Eastern etc). This one was Swiss-built for Norway...

(Wikepedia)

[Mike 84C]

JHB, is the loco unlined? there seems to be  a dark line that follows the splashers & sandboxes outline. Go's around the cab side panel and around the side of the bunker  & disappears  round the top as if to continue across the bunker rear.

[jhb171achill]

47 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

JHB, is the loco unlined? there seems to be  a dark line that follows the splashers & sandboxes outline. Go's around the cab side panel and around the side of the bunker  & disappears  round the top as if to continue across the bunker rear.

I see what you mean, Mike. That was a raised rim. The lining would be very obvious on the bunker if it was in GSWR pre-1915 times. 

It need not be GSR era - the GSWR started the unlined grey at some point between 1915 and 1918.

This is Fry’s model of one, for interest, in grey.

 

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by jhb171achill

[Mike 84C]

Gosh,  JHB I don't think I'll get a camera that close on any of my models!  But I do take your point. 7mm but built when? and the rust  must mean tinplate?

[murrayec]

6 minutes ago, Mike 84C said:

''the rust  must mean tinplate?''

A lot of Fry locos were made from mild steel sheet, akin to a railway companies engineering design prototyping model workshops!....

Eoin

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

Gosh,  JHB I don't think I'll get a camera that close on any of my models!  But I do take your point. 7mm but built when? and the rust  must mean tinplate?

It's one of Fry's - when I saw this post today I was in the museum and I was actually standing beside the cabinet containing that model when I read it! Very few of his models actually do show rust - and on this one, it is only evident in that one spot.

 

[Maitland]

Does anyone know of any scale or dimensioned drawings of these? Or is there a works GA somewhere?

[murrayec]

1 hour ago, Maitland said:

Does anyone know of any scale or dimensioned drawings of these? Or is there a works GA somewhere?

There are drawings in the new book 'Locomotives of the Great Southern & Western Railway', a dimensioned drawing with plan, front and rear- even a longitudinal cross section and a lovely pen rendering of Class 45

Eoin

[Maitland]

Thanks- I've been working up to buying the book, swallow hard, see what comes in the way of additional bills to import it...

[Mayner]

The GSWR diagram of the 0-4-4BT together with other GSWR Classes was published with New Irish Lines 3-4 years ago. Alan O'Rourke the New Irish Lines editor may be able to help alanorourke@hotmail.com.

 

[StevieB]

18 hours ago, Maitland said:

Thanks- I've been working up to buying the book, swallow hard, see what comes in the way of additional bills to import it...

I bought my copy earlier this year and there was nothing to extra to pay. It was like it always had been, but I’m sure there’ll come a time when it won’t be. Happy reading.

Stephen

 

[Maitland]

Book arrived today, no problems, less than a week in the post. Waved a forked hazel twig over it to check for any new Covid varieties, but nothing exciting there. Enough reading to keep me going for a while.