Short wheelbase flat wagons. The future!!!

[NIRCLASS80]

Here’s a little quote from RMWeb made by our IRM friends!

A hint of things to come!

Fran     6,067

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Posted 1 hour ago

   22 hours ago,  jools1959 said: 

I seem to remember that the Cawood containers were used for coal to export to Ireland.  There’s plenty of pictures and information about the containers here in the UK but when they arrived in Ireland, were they forwarded by rail or on the back of a HGV?  If they went by rail, does Accurascale do the appropriate wagons for them?

They mainly went on the backs of HGVs but were transported for a time on flat wagons. We don’t do the appropriate wagon yet...

Edited August 15, 2020 by NIRCLASS80

[ttc0169]

(appropriate wagon yet.)

I'll take twenty two axle wagons loaded with coal and oil containers-representing the Foynes-Ballina coal & oil train of the 80s & 90s 

[murphaph]

Me too lol. I have actually been wondering about these two axle flat wagons because of the coal to Ballina but what else did they transport in the 1990s?

[Mayner]

There were two distinct families of 20T two axle wagons used by CIE/IE to the run-down of freight traffic in the early 2000s.

1. 20'   12t wb  skeletal or steel floored versions introduced in the late 60s/early 70s to carry then current 8' high ISO containers

These wagons share a common 12'wb underframe with the Cement Bubbles, Hopper, Ore and Tank wagons introduced during the Mid-late 1960.

Provincial wagons produce a kit for both the skeletal and steel floored wagons.

Most of the steel floor wagons were converted into Bagged Cement & Beet Wagons.

In later years the skeletal wagons appear to have been mainly used to transport oil & bitumen in ISO containers.

20' Skeletal

2. 22'6"---14' skeletal-----------with framing lowered to carry 8-6" containers.

Originally introduced for general traffic, these wagons appear to have been mainly used in later years to transport bulk traffic in ISO containers, including Coal (Foynes-Ballina), Grain, Oil  and Keg Traffic.

 

 

[flange lubricator]

45 minutes ago, Mayner said:

There were two distinct families of 20T two axle wagons used by CIE/IE to the run-down of freight traffic in the early 2000s.

1. 20'   12t wb  skeletal or steel floored versions introduced in the late 60s/early 70s to carry then current 8' high ISO containers

These wagons share a common 12'wb underframe with the Cement Bubbles, Hopper, Ore and Tank wagons introduced during the Mid-late 1960.

Provincial wagons produce a kit for both the skeletal and steel floored wagons.

Most of the steel floor wagons were converted into Bagged Cement & Beet Wagons.

In later years the skeletal wagons appear to have been mainly used to transport oil & bitumen in ISO containers.

20' Skeletal

2. 22'6"---14' skeletal-----------with framing lowered to carry 8-6" containers.

Originally introduced for general traffic, these wagons appear to have been mainly used in later years to transport bulk traffic in ISO containers, including Coal (Foynes-Ballina), Grain, Oil  and Keg Traffic.

 

 

They would also run as part of Liner trains with bogie 42’  wagons  with the two axle wagons marshaled to the rear of the bogie wagons . I seem to remember one of the evening Dublin to Cork Liners possibly the 2040 ex north wall was made up of only two axle wagons all 14’ wheelbase ones up to the mid 1990’s .  Should IRM produce one of these this will be a huge gap in the Irish railway modeling scene of the 1970’s 1980’s 1990’ s and early 2000’s covered . 

Edited August 16, 2020 by flange lubricator

[flange lubricator]

11 hours ago, ttc0169 said:

(appropriate wagon yet.)

I'll take twenty two axle wagons loaded with coal and oil containers-representing the Foynes-Ballina coal & oil train of the 80s & 90s 

And the version painted silver with anti spark brake blocks with acrylonitrile tanks on the asahi liner !! 

[jhb171achill]

Were they the same wagons that carried the “back-to-backs”?

[flange lubricator]

Not to sure what you mean by ‘back to backs’ but they would have carried everything in 20 ‘ TSO , containers , bell , coal , oil , bitumen, asahi, kegs , grain , 10’ uniload , half height wagons , also latterly timber frames . 

[murphaph]

How and where was the grain carried? 

These things seem like they would have a large market given everything they transported.

[flange lubricator]

In the late 1990’s the grain was transported in modified 20’ containers from Foynes , Waterford and North Wall to the Conniberry siding in Portlaoise in block trains.

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by flange lubricator

[murphaph]

Very interesting. Did these trains take the direct curve at Limerick junction?

[Sean]

7 hours ago, Mayner said:

There were two distinct families of 20T two axle wagons used by CIE/IE to the run-down of freight traffic in the early 2000s.

1. 20'   12t wb  skeletal or steel floored versions introduced in the late 60s/early 70s to carry then current 8' high ISO containers

These wagons share a common 12'wb underframe with the Cement Bubbles, Hopper, Ore and Tank wagons introduced during the Mid-late 1960.

Provincial wagons produce a kit for both the skeletal and steel floored wagons.

Most of the steel floor wagons were converted into Bagged Cement & Beet Wagons.

In later years the skeletal wagons appear to have been mainly used to transport oil & bitumen in ISO containers.

20' Skeletal

2. 22'6"---14' skeletal-----------with framing lowered to carry 8-6" containers.

Originally introduced for general traffic, these wagons appear to have been mainly used in later years to transport bulk traffic in ISO containers, including Coal (Foynes-Ballina), Grain, Oil  and Keg Traffic.

would these have been loaded the same as the 10 ton vans at loading docks etc or wouldthe container have been lifted on and off of the skeleton at any point

7 hours ago, Mayner said:

 

 

 

[ttc0169]

7 hours ago, flange lubricator said:

And the version painted silver with anti spark brake blocks with acrylonitrile tanks on the asahi liner !! 

Oh yes please-another rake of those needed too.....

[flange lubricator]

If a rake of those turn up at at Tara junction you will need to put sun glasses on 

[ttc0169]

4 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

If a rake of those turn up at at Tara junction you will need to put sun glasses on 

And remodel the freight yard again.....

[Mayner]

6 hours ago, Sean said:

would these have been loaded the same as the 10 ton vans at loading docks etc or wouldthe container have been lifted on and off of the skeleton at any point

 

The CIE side door ISO containers appear to have been intended both for use as a traditional van and for Lo Lo operation

The side door and half height containers were sometimes treated as ordinary vans and open wagons up to the end of loose coupled operation, especially at smaller yards like Athy, Listowel and Youghal which continued in operation into the late 1970s

There are some photos of ISO equipment on the Youghal branch in Jonathan Allens 1978 Flickr album including a side door container being loaded/unloaded onto a flat trailer.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/39623779824/in/album-72157714527034646/

 

The Asahi Liner would be a potentially good choice for a rtr model and fit in with IRMs 42'9" project.

Relatively short train 4-5 -42'9" Bogie Flats --------4-5-22'6" 2 axle flats.

The bogie flats carried 40' containers carrying the finished product, 2 axle flats barrier & acrylonitrile containers.

40' containers usually appear to have been unbranded brown/orange containers possibly owned by Asahi Kasei or one of its subsidaries https://www.asahi-kasei.com/company/history/

The 2 axle wagons were replaced by 42' 9" flats during the final years of the trains operation.

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Mayner

[Mayner]

On 8/16/2020 at 11:36 PM, jhb171achill said:

Were they the same wagons that carried the “back-to-backs”?

The Back to Back fertiliser swap bodies appear to have been carried by the 25436-25982 steel floored flats.

The Back to Backs appear to have been in service between the late 60s and mid 70s when they were replaced by the bogie wagons.

According to an IRRS Journal a couple of laden Back to Back specials ran to Newcastle West before central section of the North Kerry line closed in November 1975.

Some time mixed rakes of bogie and back to back fertiliser wagons ran to and from Shelton Abbey with the 4w wagons marshaled at the rear of the train. 

I remember watching a southbound empty fertiliser train passing Dunlaoire in the mid-70s, the last wagon looked like it was lifting off the rails and about to derail as it ran through the facing point that leads to the bay platform/original Dunlaoire Station.

The bodies of the swap bodies got very scruffy looking after a while in service with not quite horizontal battens nailed to the sides at crazy angles. 4:55. The battens may have been a replacement for the angle iron lifting brackets in the photo of 25970 may not have been up to handling by forklift.

 

[jhb171achill]

And you’d get some side panels still grey, and others newly painted brown on the same wagon......

I remember the B2B’s passing along the GNR to Belfast around 1969 / 70.

[patrick]

Page 53 of Rails Through the West shows an empty unit train of back to backs heading South on the North side  of Tuam in 1974.

[patrick]

Here is my version of a back to back which was built from styrene and mounted on a modified Dapol Prestwin underframe.  Dimensions were guesstimated from the video John posted as it was virtually the only image of the prototype I could find at the time. It is a much more primitive version than the one shown in the photo John posted.

Edited August 23, 2020 by patrick

[NIR]

A good photo of these 'back to backs' at Cork Albert Quay

I remember being fascinated by a photo of this area in an early 70s railway magazine, a small fan of sidings closing onto a dead end track under a bridge in a steep cutting.

Edited August 25, 2020 by NIR