British export tax

[jhb171achill]

Was browsing, as I do over a mug'o'tea most nights, and came across this.

"Export" tax of almost the full value of the item - presumably with a very fat postage charge on top of THAT?

https://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=155

Is this for real? Is this what ALL brexit-based sellers will be looking for?

[leslie10646]

Hhmm, Jon, it's not the First of April, is it?

Get your slide rule out.

Take any of those prices.

Divide by 1.20

And you get the price EX(clusive) of VAT?

 

[DJ Dangerous]

"Ex Tax" means "Excluding Tax"!

[jhb171achill]

AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

OK, it's official.

I am now certifiably SENILE.  Please help me fill in the forms.

It's 00:46 and it's time I went to bed, but the butterflies flying round the room won't let me, and the Sweetie Mice are singing too loudly. And there's a Thing outside the window.

[murphaph]

The thing outside the window is the Ghost of Brexit Future.

[irishmail]

7 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

"Ex Tax" means "Excluding Tax"!

So if purchased from UK, presumably we would then have to pay the Irish VAT, plus customs and import charges and and handling and any other charges on top of that.  

No more model railway bargains then     

[murphaph]

7 minutes ago, irishmail said:

So if purchased from UK, presumably we would then have to pay the Irish VAT, plus customs and import charges and and handling and any other charges on top of that.  

No more model railway bargains then     

Model railway items are zero rated under the WTO. It's only vat and the handling charge so really it's just the handling charge as vat rates are close enough as to make no difference.

If you can combine orders you will push the per item handling charge down of course.

But if sterling loses further value then at least in the short term your UK purchases get even cheaper. Eventually the UK manufacturers will have to put up prices as they aren't paying the Chinese factories in sterling.

Used items would not necessarily increase in price however but the typical sellers on eBay can't deduct the vat.

Edited December 2, 2020 by murphaph

[DJ Dangerous]

I guess it means that you'll pay Irish VAT instead of UK VAT, plus a handling fee, so larger volume orders will be more economical.

JHB, you've opened a can of worms in your drunken stupour!

[BosKonay]

The medium term forecast on sterling/euro/USD is that it will remain fairly flat so no real currency savings. What will likely happen is that UK businesses exporting enough to Ireland will have to register for Irish Vat. So you’ll pay 21% on your sterling purchase which will then land into Ireland with a customs vat paid invoice attached to the outside. 

[murphaph]

What is the threshold for triggering an obligation to charge Irish VAT? Is the threshold for all sales into the EU or per sales to individual member states?

I'd be happy enough if UK retailers had to charge me German VAT and attach such a VAT paid invoice as that would hopefully mean no DHL handling charge on my end. Essentially no change there to the end customer.

[BosKonay]

58 minutes ago, murphaph said:

What is the threshold for triggering an obligation to charge Irish VAT? Is the threshold for all sales into the EU or per sales to individual member states?

I'd be happy enough if UK retailers had to charge me German VAT and attach such a VAT paid invoice as that would hopefully mean no DHL handling charge on my end. Essentially no change there to the end customer.

It varies a little by country, for a UK company selling into Ireland, in theory if the sales exceed €35,000 they should register for Irish VAT.

[jhb171achill]

OK, now the butterflies have gone away, a few questions.

1.  Will the fact that the north will in some ways effectively remain within the EU trading bloc ha e any effect on deliveries from Britain to the north or will this be treated as a domestic UK issue in its entirety? Those of us with a relative in the north might, presumably, be able to have stuff delivered there?

2.  For those of us living in the south, are there are suppliers in mainland Europe from which we can buy certain items to save money by avoiding either transit through the UK, or not buying from places IN the UK?

[murphaph]

If you've got family in Northern Ireland you're all set I'd say. NI is not leaving the UK customs or VAT territory. Parcels can continue to be sent domestically to NI from GB.

There are continental model railway shops that ship to Ireland too. Even UK outline stuff is available from https://www.modellbahnunion.com/

They have in fact expanded their UK range ahead of Brexit.

[NIR]

Maybe an 'unofficial' model railway shop with a door either side of the border...

Edited December 2, 2020 by NIR

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, NIR said:

Maybe an 'unofficial' model railway shop with a door either side of the border...

I may know people........ but then again, I may not!

[leslie10646]

Well, I might as well say this now - PW is NOT VAT registered, being very much a hobby, so don't expect VAT-free prices from me, very sorry.

Anything I've got in stock you can have now, before the World officially ends.

If it gets too hard .......

When it comes to good modelling tools, "I know a man" as Mr Wrenn would say - he hardly buys a thing in Britain - Germany or Switzeralnd are his thing - and I can vouch for the quality of his modelling. He also swears by some some stuff like drill bits available at a fraction of UK prices from a certain Asiatic country - they might not last quite as long, but at the price, what's not to like (to quote him word for word).

[jhb171achill]

Words of wisdom indeed.

I am spending this evening trawling Murphaph's suggested German website for researching prices and range of various bits and pieces.

Now. A RTR GSWR bogie coach, anyone? I need a couple to splice in with Park Royals, Bredins and Cravens behind a 121.......

[flange lubricator]

39 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

- PW is NOT VAT registered, being very much a hobby

 

You sound like a certain Del Trotter who said he doesn’t bother with any of that registration stuff as it keeps the paperwork to a minimum! 

Edited December 2, 2020 by flange lubricator

[leslie10646]

Well, the simple fact is that my sales are miles below the threshold - that said, the paperwork exists - if only to prove that I really am making a loss!

[flange lubricator]

On a more serious note if one purchases from PW from 1st January 2020 that order will now be subject to 23 % vat upon its arrival in the EU (ROI )which would make it expensive. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by flange lubricator

[Broithe]

15 minutes ago, flange lubricator said:

You sound like a certain Del Trotter who said he doesn’t bother with any of that registration stuff as it keeps the paperwork to a minimum! 

Back in the 1980s, I used to supply my workmates with woodscrews, which I bought from a bloke who advertised in Exchange & Mart.

They were excellent items, made in Hong Kong.

He was not VAT-registered and, as the trade increased, he would keep an eye on the threshold approaching and cease trading (and advertising) for that year around January/February time - restarting for the New Year in early April..

When you were a 'regular', he would tip you off as the 'temporary end' approached, so you weren't caught out.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Broithe
Spelling - Tut!

[murphaph]

1 hour ago, flange lubricator said:

On a more serious note if one purchases from PW from 1st January 2020 that order will now be subject to 23 % vat upon its arrival in the EU (ROI )which would make it expensive. 

I'm not suggesting Leslie do this for EU sales of course but it's done a lot. Kits and stuff like that are easily declared "commercial sample" which means they cost the recipient nothing and are therefore vat and duty free. The lighter parcels barely get looked at by customs anyway.

I got this little envelope the other day from Switzerland and this is very common. If it had actually been checked by a customs officer there would be a green sticker on it. Small envelopes are rarely even looked at. The postal systems of the world would grind to a halt if stuff this size was properly inspected by customs:

[NIR]

'Sample Only - Not For Resale' are the magic words

[RKX]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

I'm not suggesting Leslie do this for EU sales of course but it's done a lot. Kits and stuff like that are easily declared "commercial sample" which means they cost the recipient nothing and are therefore vat and duty free. The lighter parcels barely get looked at by customs anyway.

I got this little envelope the other day from Switzerland and this is very common. If it had actually been checked by a customs officer there would be a green sticker on it. Small envelopes are rarely even looked at. The postal systems of the world would grind to a halt if stuff this size was properly inspected by customs:

I used to get spare parts, under warranty, that way. Nominal value of $1. It seems the customs here make up a figure now, to apply the vat to. 

The NI route is probably the best. Plenty of modellers up there who might lend a hand.

[jhb171achill]

We may know people........................................................................................!

[jhb171achill]

I've chartered a GNR 4.4.0 and some GNR wooden carriages to go north to rescue all this tax-free stuff. An AEC set will follow with the spares.

[leslie10646]

Ref the "small envelopes" getting through - I send everything in boxes - I know a man in Hong Kong who supplies me with miles of bubble to fill them up!

[murphaph]

Hattons livestream just a few minutes ago revealed that they are vat registered in several (but not all) EU countries including Ireland. This means that post brexit they will continue to charge vat at the point of sale and will presumably ship with a notification that the vat has been or will be paid to the Revenue.

I have heard of this sort of setup with some Swiss online shops that charge German vat and the items arrive like other EU stuff in Germany with no interference by customs.

 

[BosKonay]

1 hour ago, murphaph said:

Hattons livestream just a few minutes ago revealed that they are vat registered in several (but not all) EU countries including Ireland. This means that post brexit they will continue to charge vat at the point of sale and will presumably ship with a notification that the vat has been or will be paid to the Revenue.

I have heard of this sort of setup with some Swiss online shops that charge German vat and the items arrive like other EU stuff in Germany with no interference by customs.

 

Yep. It will help remove any vat issues tho parcels may still be examined by customs. 

[murphaph]

Oh here's the screenshot from the stream:

 

[BosKonay]

That looks odd. If registered for tax in Ireland its 21%. Most of the other EU jurisdictions are different too so it won’t be the same as now. Perhaps there is a little confusion. 

[NIR]

If a trader has been given an Irish VAT number they will be treated as having imported the item themselves so will be paying the VAT themselves (they will have a deferrment account so no waiting around) which is why they charge you an amount equal to the VAT at point of sale.

Edited December 22, 2020 by NIR

[BosKonay]

They’ll be laying Irish VAT though so perhaps their systems can’t handle charging the correct amount 

[murphaph]

So a 1% saving for you guys at home and a 1% "penalty" for me (German vat is normally 19% assuming it goes back up from the 16% Corona vat charged at present)

Just a joke. I'll be quite happy if things just stay as they are when buying off them.

Do they put a special sticker on the parcel to show to customs that it's vat paid or how does it work in practice? I've only ever heard about this but never experienced it myself.

[BosKonay]

1 minute ago, murphaph said:

So a 1% saving for you guys at home and a 1% "penalty" for me (German vat is normally 19% assuming it goes back up from the 16% Corona vat charged at present)

Just a joke. I'll be quite happy if things just stay as they are when buying off them.

Do they put a special sticker on the parcel to show to customs that it's vat paid or how does it work in practice? I've only ever heard about this but never experienced it myself.

A full customs declaration and itemized vat paid invoice will be attached to the outside of every parcel.