Mol_PMB

Regarding the nearly-black livery of the H van in this photo of Ernie's that we discussed before: Here's another photo, also at Cork Albert Quay, which also shows a van in nearly-black livery, but this time we can see all of it, lower left. It has a green snail. There are also a couple more in nearly-black, on the distant right of the image. They are very much darker than the normal 'dark grey' which can be seen on some other wagons in the photo. I wonder if this nearly-black livery was a West Cork thing? Maybe they had some steam loco paint left over? At first glance they all look like an H vans but on closer inspection the nearer van is one of the earlier batch on a conventional (non-triangulated) underframe, in the 17012-17211 series built in 1946. The long brake lever and the lack of a plate below the door help to identify it. Like these two (also from Ernie): Incidentally, one of these would provide an interesting variation for a model - perhaps an IRM H van body on a conventional chassis. Which would free up a triangulated underframe to go under a palvan. Hmmm...

Definitely. 'Rails Through Tipperary' page 24 shows a later view from the same angle.

Some more photos of these tank containers, from Jonathan Allen on Flickr. They're mostly in the background but if you click on the links and then zoom in, a lot of detail is visible including lettering variations and numbers: https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51572604289 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51571111947 https://www.flickr.com/photos/152343870@N07/51571921546

In the first photo, as well as the ubiquitous vans, there's a nice tar/bitumen tank in the background. These were numbered 23801-23890 and delivered in 1953/54. They had a 'British' underframe length of 17'6" rather than the Irish standard of 16'11". Also the flat wagon in the left foreground is interesting, with its low sides, some of these are seen in this photo from the National Library of Ireland on Flickr, mixed in with other types of flat wagon:

Sounds like a good plan to me - there’s no other reasonable approach short of a total scratchbuild. Paint them the right colour and put appropriate containers in, of course. CPWs are much later than my interests but I do recall the lengthy saga of their introduction. I look forward to seeing the results! Mol

Oh dear, I don't want to rub salt in a wound or upset IRM! I was trying to show how to make them right rather than complaining about them being wrong. I'm hoping that from the pack of 3 wagons I may be able to salvage 4 of the supplied buffers in adequate condition to re-fit to one of the wagons, with the other two having the new larger buffers. But that may be optimistic! I've pre-ordered some H vans and they will be much more of a challenge as they didn't have their buffers replaced with the larger ones. Anyway, the next task on the corrugated wagons is weathering, which is always fun. Bring on the filth! Mol

Well, many thanks to Leslie for checking the GNR diagram books, but the 1954 cement van drawings aren't there! Perhaps they were built after the last book was printed? I'd have thought they ought to be in the CIE diagram book but that doesn't seem to be in the public domain. So I'm still looking...

Thanks for pointing out that they are different, so I definitely need one of yours! The Provincial Wagons version is this type (Brian Flannigan photo on Flickr): Whereas the IRM version is this type (Kieran Marshall photo on Flickr): The same at first glance but when you look closely there are a whole host of differences in the doors, the ribs, the fork slots...

I have applied to (re-)join the IRRS but my membership details are taking a while to come through. Once that's happened, it's still not clear whether I will be able to access such documents readily. I was hoping someone might have a copy of the relevant page handy!

I'm planning to make a model of one of the GNR/CIE 'bagged cement' box vans based on the Parkside kit for a BR plywood van. I know this is a well-trodden path! It will be 21mm gauge so I'll need to move the solebars and buffers out. But I'd like to check whether there are any other dimensional adjustments needed. For example, are the body dimensions the same or do I need to widen the body slightly too? Can anyone point me towards a dimensioned drawing of one of these vans? I assume such a drawing appears in one or both of the GNR(I) diagram books listed as in the IRRS archives: WD 001 GNR(I) Wagon diagram Book rev 1948 Y Y 35 Very clean original, does not include any of the later wagons WD 002 GNR(I) Wagon diagram Book rev c. 1959 45 From Dundalk works,Well used, annotation including numbers and build dates for many later wagons Cheers, Mol

Found elsewhere on the forum, a 10' container on a road vehicle, with mail being transferred to/from the train. The container is still quite new and clean in this 1970s photo by jhb171achill: From the same source, a shiny new pair: I must have a root through this thread for more!

The 4-wheelers were delivered in silver. Remember, you don't need one if there's a steam loco on the front, or if it's summer time. Only diesel-hauled in trains in winter need the steam. Also about half of the AEC railcars had built-in boilers so they don't need a steam van either. From Ernie on Flickr, it's August so there's no need for heating: The early 4-wheel vans were delivered in silver: They were later green, as seen here in one of Ernie's photos: And finally black and tan, at which point they seem to have lost some windows: The 6-wheelers were delivered new in black and tan, as seen here in one of Ernie's photos: They ended their days in 1983 confined to Dublin suburban services, as seen here in Neil Smith's photo:

It's important to note that there was a change in policy around 1970, relating to the electrical supply on carriages, and this influences which type of heating van is appropriate for a train. From steam days, carriages with electric lighting had dynamos and batteries, with steam heat provided from the loco. When diesels were introduced from 1955, steam heat vans were required to provide the heat, but the lighting still came from the dynamos and batteries. So... The 4-wheel heating vans 3101-3152 built 1955-1960 just had a boiler, no electric generator. The 6-wheel vans 3153-3156 built in 1964 (there were only ever 4 of them) had 2 boilers but still no electric generator. Around 1970 there was a move to convert the passenger fleet lighting from dynamos and batteries to supply from a generating steam van. Converted carriages had a TL suffix added to their number, indicating Train Line lighting. This required additional through wiring of the lighting power circuits. I'm not sure whether the dynamos and/or batteries were removed at the same time, or if there were changes to the voltage etc. So... The 10 'Dutch' vans 3157TL-3166TL built in 1969 were the first to have a generator. In 1972, the 22 ex-BR MK1 vans 3167TL-3176TL and 3177TL-3192TL arrived, also generator fitted. Gradual conversion of the whole fleet proceeded through the 1970s and early 1980s, with the carriages used for express trains generally prioritised over those on suburban duties. As the conversion programme progressed, more BGSVs were needed, so... Former brake standard coaches were modified with boilers and generators in 1977-1978 - these were numbered in the 3201TL-3218TL series and there were several varieties. By 1981 almost all trains were on the TL system; just the four 6-wheel vans were still in use on Dublin suburban trains with non-TL stock. Of course they were swept away by the DART. Getting back on topic for this thread, you'll notice that the Park Royal carriages offered by IRM include those with and without a TL suffix to the number. So... If you have carriages without TL, then they ought to be paired with a 4-wheel or 6-wheel heating van. If you have carriages with TL, then they ought to be paired with a Dutch, BR or 3201 series heating van. Doubtless there were mixtures during the transition period even if that meant going without lights!

Many thanks, that’s really helpful and plenty for me to think about. I will need to have some pointwork, but not sure what approach to use at present. Buffer spacing is 6’3” for the CIE wagons, whereas GB standard gauge is 5’7.5”, a 7.5” difference, similar to the track gauge increase.

This is on the Chemins de fer du Jura, and it’s also a waste train. Click on the photo to take you to my Flickr album for more details, and many more photos. The CJ has a couple of street running sections, the more impressive one is at La Chaux-de-Fonds but I haven’t uploaded a photo of that - I’ll try to find one later. They also operate freight on rollschemels: The RhB Chur-Arosa route is another place where you can see metre gauge freight/mixed trains running in the street. The biggest Swiss user of rollbocken for carrying standard gauge wagons on narrow gauge is the MBC: Again, there are more pics in the Flickr album. Mol

I have done the deed with the buffers, and I think it looks satisfactory. It's very hard to get buffers perfectly straight, but I take comfort from the fact that the factory-fitted ones aren't 100% perfect either! I have enough of these buffers to convert another wagon, so I might do that tomorrow or Friday. The buffers I've used are X6495 Hornby Sprung Tender Buffers for Class B1. They're not a perfect match to the CIE self-contained buffers but they're about right. Photo of the real thing from Neil Smith, showing the larger type buffers and how near they are to the outer edge of the headstock:

OK, here's a thread for the tank containers:

Some from Flickr. From Fred Dean, one of the Ammonia barrier tanks: From Jonathan Allen, a photo dated 1989 with stacks of tanks carrying different branding. Two are Shell, three are Cold Chon (Galway): A photo in Doyle&Hirsch shows two of these tank containers with similar branding panels for Cationic Road Emulsions. From Jon33040 on Flickr, here's the 'wrong' end of the coal&oil train, with the tanks just visible in the distance.

CIE had a fleet of 20x8x8 tank containers, mostly used for fuels and other oils. Latterly they were used on the Foynes to Ballina coal and oil train, and the barrier wagon tanks used on the Ammonia trains were also very similar. Here are a few detail photos that I took of dumped survivors.

Ernie included some of the stacks at Ennis in his photos, this is where I got most of my closeup pics but from different angles. Far right in this first photo is a grey one with UNILOAD branding - yet another variant!

This photo from Brian Flannigan on Flickr shows the Wexford liner in 1982. Two 10' containers are in very clean, plain tan livery with black roundel, while the most of the rest are in grubby UNILOAD. That suggests that the plain tan livery came later than UNILOAD. My impression of the earlier photos that show both gray and UNILOAD containers is that the grey ones are dirtier, so the grey livery probably came first. There's no doubt that the majority carried UNILOAD

Great, that would be wonderful. I'll definitely have 4 of the next batch, unpainted. I'll probably add a few other bits and pieces too as it looks like you have a good range of bits. Cheers, Mol

I was going to ask this question but found it had been answered already, over a decade ago. Here are two of my photos showing 155 and 158 with the modification, but at Limerick so nowhere near the border. I recall 156 having it (also seen at Limerick), and a quick search online also found pics of 154 and 159 with the modification.

On which topic, I'm looking forward to Accurascale's take on a BGSV, complete with DCC hissing sounds to accompany the inevitable steam leak effects. It might even blow off occasionally!

From Jeremy Chapter on Flickr, a busy scene at Mallow in 1979, including several Uniload containers, one on the back of a CIE Bedford truck in tan livery: The book 'Rails Through Wexford' (Beaumont & Carse) includes two photos (pages 37, 40) of the Dublin-Wexford liner in the early 1980s with plenty of these containers, in UNILOAD tan livery and in grey. Though I must confess the most impressive container photo in that book is from an earlier era, with about 40 pre-ISO containers full of bacon ready for export from Rosslare in 1959! Similarly, 'Rails Through Tipperary' (Beaumont & Carse) includes three photos (pages 26, 28, 32) of short liner trains on the Nenagh route, with UNILOAD containers. But it's interesting that these two books, ostensibly covering exactly the right era and location for the UNILOAD containers, contain so few views of them! They were introduced in 1978 to finally get rid of the unfitted goods vans, but that small-volume sundries traffic was probably dying already.