A Class speaker modification.

[Fowler4f]

Has anyone tried the A Class speaker modification as suggested by Road&Rails ? I have altered the cab/shunting lights on 14 of my A class but I’m not sure what needs to be done with the speakers, my hearing is not the best, so I have difficulty understanding what needs to be disconnected.

[BosKonay]

48 minutes ago, Fowler4f said:

Has anyone tried the A Class speaker modification as suggested by Road&Rails ? I have altered the cab/shunting lights on 14 of my A class but I’m not sure what needs to be done with the speakers, my hearing is not the best, so I have difficulty understanding what needs to be disconnected.

The sound chip’s configured specifically to use both speakers and split the frequencies so removing one may reduce the fidelity of the sound. 

[flange lubricator]

3 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

The sound chip’s configured specifically to use both speakers and split the frequencies so removing one may reduce the fidelity of the sound. 

And possibly invalidate the warranty to boot !

[irishthump]

6 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

The sound chip’s configured specifically to use both speakers and split the frequencies so removing one may reduce the fidelity of the sound. 

Yeah I really don't understand why Roads&Rails did this modification. Out of the box the A Class has better sound than any of my other locos, and I've tried a lot of different speakers and configurations.

It seemed to be a case of "I'm doing it because I can!"

[Fowler4f]

A46 sorted at last. Rewired for directional cab lighting, Crossley Sound, drivers and Kadees fitted.

Video is a bit stop n start, be patient.

Edited August 13 by Fowler4f

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Lovely loco

[Noel]

Is there a published fix for the cab lighting, or how to do this on the IRM support site?

[Fowler4f]

12 minutes ago, Noel said:

14 minutes ago, Noel said:

Is there a published fix for the cab lighting, or how to do this on the IRM support site?

There is a video on YouTube, but I can’t remember where, it was mentioned on here but again I can’t remember where.

I have some photos on my phone that I will post with an explanation of what to do. I’m on IPad just now. 

[DJ Dangerous]

18 minutes ago, Noel said:

Is there a published fix for the cab lighting, or how to do this on the IRM support site?

 

 

[Fowler4f]

A Class Cab Light Directional Rewire.

All the wires that need swapping over are yellow. 2 wires at decoder end & 2 at stayalive/capacitor end.

Tools needed : a good soldering iron @ 400° with a clean fine tip, solder & flux, a pair of fine nosed tweezers and a cocktail stick.

Decoder End : Remove the decoder as that allows a clear area to work in. The cab light wire is set on X5, this needs to be reset on X7. Thread the cocktail stick through X5 wire so you can lift it away when you apply soldering iron to tab, apply a tiny dab of solder to iron before unsoldering X5 wire, be careful as there is a black wire soldered to the same tab underneath. When you have released X5 wire, re tin the wire end. Clean the iron after each step.

You may now need to move other wires out of way to access X7 wire that comes in from side of cab back wall , again use cocktail stick to tension wire and apply tiny dab of solder to iron then release X7 wire from tab. Again re tin X7 wire end.

Apply tiny dab of solder to iron and using tweezers hold X5 wire to X7 solder tab & solder X5 wire to X7 tab. Try to keep tweezers away from tinned wire end as it dissipates heat from iron as wire is very thin.

Same procedure & solder X7 wire to X5 tab.

The Capacitor End : Not a lot of space to work in, same procedure as above, except start with releasing X6 first and then X5. The cab light wire is X5, again there is a black wire soldered underneath to X5 tab. If you are unlucky enough to release black wire resolder it back before doing anything else and give it time to cool, hence only tiny dab of solder to iron. The other wire is X6. Same  procedure as before. X5 wire then goes to X6 solder tab & X6 wire goes to X5 solder tab. Using metal tweezers dissipates the heat from the iron through the wire as the wires are very thin. Try to hold the tweezers as far away from iron/solder tab as possible. Don't forget to clean iron after each step. You will see from photos other pcb wires moved out of way, you do not want to touch any wire cover with iron as the cover will melt instantly.

Apologies,  the first photo is a little blurry, it shows the wires ex factory.

The last 2 photos show the iron, flux & solder I use.

Good luck & feel free to ask any question.

Edited August 13 by Fowler4f
Spelling

[DB JOE]

Many Thanks!  Very helpful!!

[Fowler4f]

I should mention that I have rewired all 19 of my A Class locos quite some time ago.

A46 met with an accident recently, breaking off both bogies,  the drive shafts & buffers. I purchased a replacement loco 056s from Chris Dyer and swopped A46 body with 056s body, hence the need to rewire the loco.

[Fowler4f]

Always remember to wash your hands after handling solder.

Edited August 13 by Fowler4f

[Fowler4f]

The 056s body on the irreparable A46 chassis will sit outside the repair shop awaiting the scrap man’s cutting torch !

[Georgeconna]

Thanks, I dont remember reading about this in theMagazine Reviews and nothing was said upon release either AFAIK.

appreciate the Effort, Once I get some stuff up and running again I try doing this too.

[murphaph]

2 hours ago, Fowler4f said:

The 056s body on the irreparable A46 chassis will sit outside the repair shop awaiting the scrap man’s cutting torch !

Can you post some pics of the damage? I wouldn't write the chassis off unless it's badly bent. I even fixed a slightly bent one for @DJ Dangerous that had fallen from height. The plastic bits should be available as spares from IRM, if not immediately then after the warranty periods have run out.

[DJ Dangerous]

56 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Can you post some pics of the damage? I wouldn't write the chassis off unless it's badly bent. I even fixed a slightly bent one for @DJ Dangerous that had fallen from height. The plastic bits should be available as spares from IRM, if not immediately then after the warranty periods have run out.

 

I seriously doubt that he's anywhere near as skilled as you, @murphaph. There are probably only a few dozen who could work magic like you.

That said, the A is an incredibly durable model. To fall from that height, suffer a bent chassis among other things, and still be salvageable is a testament to both you and to IRM.

[Fowler4f]

ZZZZZZZZZZ  !

[Sean]

So I am most definitely putting the lighting mod on my to do list going forward.

 

I have been looking at the speaker mod for a couple of days mostly with curiosity thinking of just why he wanted to do this and what the actual percieved difference would be.

having not looked at the pcb, I wasnt sure why the mod had been undertaken until i found these comparison videos, the descriptions of which shed some light on his reasoning behind this. It should be noted that in these videos he states that he connects the EM1 directly to the decoder bypassing any additional circuitry on the board which differs from what he says in the above video.

 

 

The first impression of he sound is that its not really loud enough though, I have set the max volume to 192 and I'd still like it a bit louder so I'll have to have a look on the Lokprogrammer to see if I can increase anything.

 

I wasn't sure whether to do this video or not, because I didn't want to be the person to criticise an excellent model, but from the moment I first heard it I felt like the speaker setup wasn't quite getting the best from the sound file. It comes with a sugarcube type speaker under the PCB as well as an EM1 type speaker on top of it. From past experience, you need to get the EM1 working hard to get the best out of it, and in this two speaker setup it wasn't doing much. I decided to try removing the sugarcube and connecting the EM1 directly to the decoder, I also turned up some of the individual sound slots to make the loco a bit louder, which again helps to get the best from the EM1 by achieving more bass. You can hear sounds in the file that you couldn't before, and the higher frequency sounds like the horns don't seem to sudden at all either. If you haven't seen my original video of the model you can find it here, this has the original speaker setup and volume.

 

 

Now whilst the second clip definitely is louder, louder isnt always better and I personally like to run all my locos at a reduced volume which would probabaly reduce the effectiveness of this mod by the authors own logic as that would be running the EM1 at a reduced power level.

 

It should also be noted that "this sounds better than that" is very subjective and doing the mod would certainly be altering the authenticity of the sound, which may be more important to some than out and out loudness

 

Everyone will have a different opinion on this, so see the videos and come to your own conclusions  

 

[murphaph]

I won't be doing the sound mod. I'm not able to tell enough of a difference to make it worth the hassle. The lighting mod will be performed on all mine though.

[BosKonay]

The speaker configuration has been developed with EsU with the large tangband at 4 Ohms and the loksound and pcb working together. Bypassing the config and hooking the large speaker directly to the chip will most likely blow the speaker and definitely void your warranty , just for the record!

[Georgeconna]

48 minutes ago, BosKonay said:

The speaker configuration has been developed with EsU with the large tangband at 4 Ohms and the loksound and pcb working together. Bypassing the config and hooking the large speaker directly to the chip will most likely blow the speaker and definitely void your warranty , just for the record!

Stephen, Can I ask how come the Lighting issue went through quality check and not mentioned upon release, don't these all get signed off with a signature sheet but were not 100% correct?

If there is a new release I suspect the wiring will be corrected?

 

[DJ Dangerous]

2 hours ago, murphaph said:

I won't be doing the sound mod. I'm not able to tell enough of a difference to make it worth the hassle. The lighting mod will be performed on all mine though.

 

Can the lighting mod be done via a decoder, or does it have to be hard-wired?

[Georgeconna]

2 hours ago, murphaph said:

I won't be doing the sound mod. I'm not able to tell enough of a difference to make it worth the hassle. The lighting mod will be performed on all mine though.

It seemed a be Throaty-er in the Vid TBH. The Loco engine sound emiteed is a bit flat wise when compare the the other Irish sound options. However I won't be jumping to do the Mod either.

[Sean]

3 hours ago, murphaph said:

I won't be doing the sound mod. I'm not able to tell enough of a difference to make it worth the hassle. The lighting mod will be performed on all mine though.

I can definitely tell the difference but its subtle enough that I wouldnt really care, the horns sound better to me on the modded loco in the video, the brake squeal sounds better in the first video however, and the prime movers sound a bit different, but as i said above  different means not authentic and the guys primary goal seems to be to make things louder by getting as much power into the top speaker as he possibly can. I personally turn all my locos down to 75-100 because i find it that bit more realistic to not fill the entire room with the sound of one tiny little machine and by doing this i am running the speakers well below their full power anyway so im thinking things would actually sound better with the 2 speakers at this volume rather then removing one.

 

@DJ Dangerous its hard wire only unfortunately as you are swapping an always on function with a directional one.

Edited August 17 by Sean

[murphaph]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

I can definitely tell the difference but its subtle enough that I wouldnt really care, the horns sound better to me on the modded loco in the video, the brake squeal sounds better in the first video however, and the prime movers sound a bit different, but as i said above  different means not authentic and the guys primary goal seems to be to make things louder by getting as much power into the top speaker as he possibly can. I personally turn all my locos down to 75-100 because i find it that bit more realistic to not fill the entire room with the sound of one tiny little machine and by doing this i am running the speakers well below their full power anyway so im thinking things would actually sound better with the 2 speakers at this volume rather then removing one.

 

@DJ Dangerous its hard wire only unfortunately as you are swapping an always on function with a directional one.

Yeah I'm the same. I don't want to hear a loco from a scale 5 miles away. The sound should fade in and out as the loco approaches and moves away for me.

[Sean]

Im operating in smaller rooms and that particular issue is quite a lot more pronounced for me as well.

 

I think the flip side to that argument could be in the case of someone who brings their layout to a lot of exhibitions and when there are a lot of people in the room they may have the ability to drive the speakers harder rather than have them drowned out by crowd noises. Or ya know, maybe some people like to bring the loco down to the local club every week and show off how loud and bassy they could make the thing compared to everyone elses, lol

[DJ Dangerous]

Can't hear any difference at all myself, seems a bit of a pointless mod...

As @irishthump says, it's "can" vs. "should".

[JasonB]

6 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Can't hear any difference at all myself, seems a bit of a pointless mod...

As @irishthump says, it's "can" vs. "should".

Agreed, it's needless tinkering. 

[JasonB]

On 10/8/2023 at 7:37 PM, Fowler4f said:

Always remember to wash your hands after handling solder.

And, don't eat yellow snow.  

[DJ Dangerous]

4 minutes ago, JasonB said:

And, don't eat yellow snow.  

Epic fail!

The joke only works if you first make a post complaining that the mods try to make the forum a better place, then edit the entire post to your hard-earned advice.

[JasonB]

Apologies, I'll try harder next time.