Limerick to Foynes railway reopening plan

[226 Abhann na Suire]

On 3/9/2024 at 6:56 PM, Der Rechtsanwalt said:

 

Great video! Didn’t know they were bothering to rebuild the roof… Hardly as a preemptive station project…? Overnight loco storage maybe? Will there be a run around facility built at Foynes from the outset or are they waiting until they can bring the railhead to the dock itselfv

[DERAILED]

17 hours ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Great video! Didn’t know they were bothering to rebuild the roof… Hardly as a preemptive station project…? Overnight loco storage maybe? Will there be a run around facility built at Foynes from the outset or are they waiting until they can bring the railhead to the dock itselfv

Are they going to rebuild the roof - demolishing it before it fell down is one thing - rebuilding it quite another!

[jhb171achill]

22 hours ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

Great video! Didn’t know they were bothering to rebuild the roof… Hardly as a preemptive station project…? Overnight loco storage maybe? Will there be a run around facility built at Foynes from the outset or are they waiting until they can bring the railhead to the dock itselfv

My understanding is that any potential restoration of the station is and will be an entirely separate issue to the relaying of the railway, as the station itself is not of actual practical use in any way and therefore not part of the railway relaying plan. The new terminus track layout will veer to the left of that picture, I understand.

The bigger issue, of course, is what actual traffic will operate on this newly reopened line. Thus far, precisely nothing concrete appears to have been mentioned anywhere. What will the line be used for on a day to day basis?

[226 Abhann na Suire]

On 9/9/2024 at 7:16 PM, DERAILED said:

Are they going to rebuild the roof - demolishing it before it fell down is one thing - rebuilding it quite another!

According to the video sent by @Der Rechtsanwalt that’s what the clearance work on the old collapsed roof was for…!

[jhb171achill]

On 9/9/2024 at 7:16 PM, DERAILED said:

Are they going to rebuild the roof - demolishing it before it fell down is one thing - rebuilding it quite another!

 

4 minutes ago, 226 Abhann na Suire said:

According to the video sent by @Der Rechtsanwalt that’s what the clearance work on the old collapsed roof was for…!

Wonder who's picking up the tab for that? And what they're going to do with the restored roof / building?

[Der Rechtsanwalt]

It's likely that they will have to re-instate the canopy. Foynes Railway Station was declared a protected structure by Limerick County Council on 25th April 2005. This includes the signal box which dates from the 1850's. 

Here is more information on the station buildings.

https://www.buildingsofireland.ie/buildings-search/building/21829006/foynes-railway-station-main-street-gilltown-foynes-limerick

 

 

 

 

[irishrailways52]

On 9/9/2024 at 7:16 PM, DERAILED said:

Are they going to rebuild the roof - demolishing it before it fell down is one thing - rebuilding it quite another!

a few indide lads i know have sayed that the roof will be rebuilt exactly as it was before. as far as i can tell it will be done as part of this project

[jhb171achill]

On 12/9/2024 at 5:47 PM, irishrailways52 said:

a few indide lads i know have sayed that the roof will be rebuilt exactly as it was before. as far as i can tell it will be done as part of this project

Interesting - my sources suggested that these were entirely separate projects. Nothing at all of the old station will be anything to do with the new terminal, which in any case is slightly off to one side. Listed building or no, the main line network is awash with old stone buildings now locked up and uncared for, with buddleia growing in the stonework and cracking it, and roofs leaking. Clearly, if old buildings are not actually in daily use now, there seems to be no funding to care for them. And in reality, in cold, hard practical terms, the government subsidises IE to get people from A to B, not to look after historic buildings. That, one could almost think, would be one for the OPW.

Against that background, it is hard to see ho the Foynes relaying project could have anything whatever to do with any restoration of the Foynes station building.

Now, it may very well be, and hopefully it is, that they've combined the two - the actual railway, plus, as a separate issue, a listed building. But given the background, it's hard to see the two being connected.

[GSR 800]

51 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

Interesting - my sources suggested that these were entirely separate projects. Nothing at all of the old station will be anything to do with the new terminal, which in any case is slightly off to one side. Listed building or no, the main line network is awash with old stone buildings now locked up and uncared for, with buddleia growing in the stonework and cracking it, and roofs leaking. Clearly, if old buildings are not actually in daily use now, there seems to be no funding to care for them. And in reality, in cold, hard practical terms, the government subsidises IE to get people from A to B, not to look after historic buildings. That, one could almost think, would be one for the OPW.

Against that background, it is hard to see ho the Foynes relaying project could have anything whatever to do with any restoration of the Foynes station building.

Now, it may very well be, and hopefully it is, that they've combined the two - the actual railway, plus, as a separate issue, a listed building. But given the background, it's hard to see the two being connected.

one can only hope the buildings on the down Galway platform at Mullingar will eventually get similar treatment, though I highly doubt it. The roof of the canopy is beginning to cave in.

[jhb171achill]

57 minutes ago, GSR 800 said:

one can only hope the buildings on the down Galway platform at Mullingar will eventually get similar treatment, though I highly doubt it. The roof of the canopy is beginning to cave in.

Again, it's like freight traffic. The government funds the railway to get passengers about, plus a few grudging logs and containers. The money doesn't stretch to anything else, nor is it intended to. So until or unless the subsidy increases, and the broad area of responsibility of IE changes to include redundant building stock; or a separate body like the OPW takes on responsibility for railwy structures no longer used, we may but watch Mullingar, Waterford signal cabin, and other places including Foynes station, just fall to bits.

The issue is central government funding, rather than any railway policy or practice. The NTA (No Trains Authority) will likewise have no role in this - though if they did, they'd probably convert the entire railway system into a greenway within the month.

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, jhb171achill said:

Again, it's like freight traffic. The government funds the railway to get passengers about, plus a few grudging logs and containers. The money doesn't stretch to anything else, nor is it intended to. So until or unless the subsidy increases, and the broad area of responsibility of IE changes to include redundant building stock; or a separate body like the OPW takes on responsibility for railwy structures no longer used, we may but watch Mullingar, Waterford signal cabin, and other places including Foynes station, just fall to bits.

The issue is central government funding, rather than any railway policy or practice. The NTA (No Trains Authority) will likewise have no role in this - though if they did, they'd probably convert the entire railway system into a greenway within the month.

The big question is whether the Irish voters would elect a Government that would raise taxes (income, rates and road user charges) to a level required to provide a Scandanavian standard of infrastructure, public services and maintain its heritage. Ireland has currently one of the lowest effective rates of income tax in the OECD at 15% compared with the 30+% rate in the early 1990s when IE still carried a fair amount of rail freight.

One of the biggest shocks I experienced after moving to New Zealand that although the tax rates (income & vat) were lower I ended up paying more tax than when I lived in Ireland or the UK. Tax was charged at a flat rate without a tax free allowance or Credits, Pension contributions, Mortgage Interest and Medical insurance contributions were not tax deductile. These days I pay more in rates on our family home (including subsidies for local bus and rail services) than I pay in income tax on a moderate income.

Again there seems to be an expectation that central government or 'someone else" should take responsibility for redundant rail structures rather than the local community getting involved and raising the funds.

Local communities on the Central Wales Line took ownership of maintaining stations and halts on the line the community of Dolores Colorado on the trackbed of the Rio Grande Southern built a replica of the old (ornate) railroad Depot and restored a Galloping Goose railcar largely out of their own resources with some state assistance https://www.gallopinggoose5.org/.  Is there anything to stop communities in Waterford, Foynes and Mullingar getting involved in the restoration of redunt buildings. Restoring the station and train shed would be small change to the Limerick-Foynes Port Company perhaps a local community heritage history group could get involved and estanbish a museum like the community of Kiltimagh did 30 odd years ago?

[jhb171achill]

12 hours ago, Mayner said:

The big question is whether the Irish voters would elect a Government that would raise taxes (income, rates and road user charges) to a level required to provide a Scandanavian standard of infrastructure, public services and maintain its heritage. Ireland has currently one of the lowest effective rates of income tax in the OECD at 15% compared with the 30+% rate in the early 1990s when IE still carried a fair amount of rail freight.

One of the biggest shocks I experienced after moving to New Zealand that although the tax rates (income & vat) were lower I ended up paying more tax than when I lived in Ireland or the UK. Tax was charged at a flat rate without a tax free allowance or Credits, Pension contributions, Mortgage Interest and Medical insurance contributions were not tax deductile. These days I pay more in rates on our family home (including subsidies for local bus and rail services) than I pay in income tax on a moderate income.

Again there seems to be an expectation that central government or 'someone else" should take responsibility for redundant rail structures rather than the local community getting involved and raising the funds.

Local communities on the Central Wales Line took ownership of maintaining stations and halts on the line the community of Dolores Colorado on the trackbed of the Rio Grande Southern built a replica of the old (ornate) railroad Depot and restored a Galloping Goose railcar largely out of their own resources with some state assistance https://www.gallopinggoose5.org/.  Is there anything to stop communities in Waterford, Foynes and Mullingar getting involved in the restoration of redunt buildings. Restoring the station and train shed would be small change to the Limerick-Foynes Port Company perhaps a local community heritage history group could get involved and estanbish a museum like the community of Kiltimagh did 30 odd years ago?

Correct.

We have a predisposition here to expressing outrage when heritage matters are not paid for and carried out.

Like railway preservation, it’s never us that should cough up. It’s “someone”.

”Someone” always “should”, or better, “NEEDS” to do “something” about it; but any political party advocating just an extra 1% tax to address such things, will never get a single vote here.

Tis what it is……

 

[Broithe]

Talk of closed/reopened railway infrastructure came to mind as I read one of the "Did you know..?" items on today's Wikipedia page.

Northamptonshire, on the Big Island, once had 92 railway stations, but now has six.

The Republic seems to have towards 150 currently.

[Mayner]

16 hours ago, Broithe said:

Talk of closed/reopened railway infrastructure came to mind as I read one of the "Did you know..?" items on today's Wikipedia page.

Northamptonshire, on the Big Island, once had 92 railway stations, but now has six.

The Republic seems to have towards 150 currently.

Spent some time exploring the railways and time with friends in the county when I lived in the "Home Counties" during my misspent 30s.  Rural and quite sparsely populated away from the industrial centers on the Nene Valley and its tributaries the county once had an extensive railway system mainly as a result of competition between the Great Western, LNWR, Midland and Great Central for traffic between London and the Midland cities. Apart from the Great Central "London Extension" which ran through an entirely rural part of the County and closed under the Beeching Axe of the 60s the remaining trunk routes that run through the county WCML & Northampton Loop Line, Midland Main Line and Chiltern London-Birmingham route and probably busier than ever and passenger services restored to the Kettering-Corby branch closed in 1966.

While 4 of the stations serve large centers (Cities by Irish standards) Northampton (243k) Wellingborough (54K) Kettering (57k) Corby (62K) the remaining two stations serve small towns/villages by comparison and are seved by slow/stopping services only Long Buckby ,4K Northampton Loop Line, Kings Sutton 2.3K.

Interestingly a workmate from Daventry 27K (one of largest towns in England without a rail station) used to commute by train from Northampton to Watford  rather than from Long Buckby (nearest station) as he could use a quicker non-stop service despite a longer drive.

Northamptonshire lost most of its traditional industries (iron and steel and shoe manufacture) by the 1980s passenger traffic is mainly London commuting, while the Daventry International Freight Terminal became one of the first of the current generation of independently owned/operated  "Inland Ports" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daventry_International_Rail_Freight_Terminal

 

[Der Rechtsanwalt]

 

[Der Rechtsanwalt]

 

[derek]

On 4/11/2024 at 8:13 AM, Der Rechtsanwalt said:

 

Have to say, being from Limerick, I absolutely love this thread. Especially the videos. However , close to the beginning of this one a title comes on screen showing the name "Ardnacrusha". Ardnacrusha is nowhere near this line . As I say, I am loving the videos, but I am being just a little pedantic. Ardnacrusha is in Co. Clare (just). Could I also ask, while I am here- Are there plans to reinstate the long gone bridge on Careys road as part of this project? 

Edited Sunday at 20:18 by derek

[jhb171achill]

Apparently, still no word of any potential traffic on this line.... (nor the return of the Taras!)

[Der Rechtsanwalt]

17 hours ago, derek said:

Have to say, being from Limerick, I absolutely love this thread. Especially the videos. However , close to the beginning of this one a title comes on screen showing the name "Ardnacrusha". Ardnacrusha is nowhere near this line . As I say, I am loving the videos, but I am being just a little pedantic. Ardnacrusha is in Co. Clare (just). Could I also ask, while I am here- Are there plans to reinstate the long gone bridge on Careys road as part of this project? 

Hi Derek,

I'm not certain about Carey's Road bridge. I think it's unlikely though. The Foynes branch line will join the main Limerick line east of Limerick Station, by passing the station altogether.  It appears to be a re-instatement of the later branch line closed in 2013 rather than the one closed to passenger traffic in 1963.

Apologies about the misidentification of Ardnacrusha. I just re-post the videos from the original source on YouTube. I don't think he's a Limerick man either. 

Glad you are enjoying the thread. It's not often we get to see a reversal of the rationalization of our rail network. 

  

Edited Monday at 13:37 by Der Rechtsanwalt
Typos

[derek]

5 hours ago, Der Rechtsanwalt said:

Hi Derek,

I'm not certain about Carey's Road bridge. I think it's unlikely though. The Foynes branch line will join the main Limerick line east of Limerick Station, by passing the station altogether.  It appears to be a re-instatement of the later branch line closed in 2013 rather than the one closed to passenger traffic in 1963.

Apologies about the misidentification of Ardnacrusha. I just re-post the videos from the original source on YouTube. I don't think he's a Limerick man either. 

Glad you are enjoying the thread. It's not often we get to see a reversal of the rationalization of our rail network. 

  

Thanks for that @Der Rechtsanwalt. Ah, I get it now. So it will pass under Roxboro Road instead of going across Careys Road. And I understand you are just re-posting videos, so please continue to do so. Absolutely love them