Mayner Posted December 14, 2023 Share Posted December 14, 2023 AEC Railcars would have used the 'Direct Curve" during the final years of Limerick-Tralee passenger services and possibly CIE 1950-60s stock on Limerick-Listowel Race Specials and other special passenger trains after regular passenger workings ceased. The exception appears to have been the "Limerick Foynes" Mixed which appears to have usually made up and departed from the goods yard. There is a story of an enthusiast arriving in Limerick intending to ride on the Mixed with no sign of the train as it approached departure time. Asking an official our enthusiast was told to stand at the end of the platform, the loco and the coach pulled up at the platform, the sole passenger alighted before the train backed out to the Check Cabin and the Foynes Line 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave182 Posted January 28 Share Posted January 28 (edited) On 30/10/2022 at 3:22 AM, patrick said: What traffic is expected on the line and do Irish Rail have rolling stock to handle it? As asked originally by Patrick early on in this thread, and again by Mayner, are any viable freight flows identified for this line? Much as I want this line to be successful, I'm struggling to find viable flows. Ore was the original one being mentioned, but with all that has happened with the price of zinc and Bolidon/Tara Mines this past couple or years I can't see that happening. Is biomass a consideration? To Edenderry maybe? Like the Drax in the UK? Imported wood pellets from Canada. The cement industry has been mentioned too, but what from where would need to go through Foynes Port? And the renewables industry keeps getting mentioned. But what rail flows could this actively support? Containers then... I don't believe there is enough import export to the US/South America to support this. My own opinions. If anyone has other reasonable ideas, suggestions or information I'd love to hear your thoughts. Edited January 28 by dave182 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, dave182 said: As asked originally by Patrick early on in this thread, and again by Mayner, are any viable freight flows identified for this line? Much as I want this line to be successful, I'm struggling to find viable flows. Ore was the original one being mentioned, but with all that has happened with the price of zinc and Bolidon/Tara Mines this past couple or years I can't see that happening. Is biomass a consideration? To Edenderry maybe? Like the Drax in the UK? Imported wood pellets from Canada. The cement industry has been mentioned too, but what from where would need to go through Foynes Port? And the renewables industry keeps getting mentioned. But what rail flows could this actively support? Containers then... I don't believe there is enough import export to the US/South America to support this. My own opinions. If anyone has other reasonable ideas, suggestions or information I'd love to hear your thoughts. My thoughts exactly. I just hope that this whole thing isn't a false dawn; the answer appears to be that all in the know insist that the line very definitely WILL reopen; but equally, not a solitary credible freight flow appears to have been identified. If there is one in the making, one would think that it would be in the public domain by now. If they complete it and run an 071 in, to much fanfare and ribbon-cutting, will it then be quietly abandoned? I hope not. The government's attitude to supporting rail freight in the last decade has not been impressive, and what happens if the next government doesn't include any Green Party in coalition? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 On 9/12/2023 at 2:23 PM, StevieB said: The old route is clear apart from the building in the centre of the photo. They can always be a problem. If they they used the ingenuity and imagination they employ to dream up new problems, instead directed towards making it happen, it’d be done overnight! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOGUL Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 17 hours ago, dave182 said: As asked originally by Patrick early on in this thread, and again by Mayner, are any viable freight flows identified for this line? Much as I want this line to be successful, I'm struggling to find viable flows. Ore was the original one being mentioned, but with all that has happened with the price of zinc and Bolidon/Tara Mines this past couple or years I can't see that happening. Is biomass a consideration? To Edenderry maybe? Like the Drax in the UK? Imported wood pellets from Canada. The cement industry has been mentioned too, but what from where would need to go through Foynes Port? And the renewables industry keeps getting mentioned. But what rail flows could this actively support? Containers then... I don't believe there is enough import export to the US/South America to support this. My own opinions. If anyone has other reasonable ideas, suggestions or information I'd love to hear your thoughts. The Pallas green mine seems to be the main one mentioned, but the mine itself seems to have made little progress towards actually happening, just some surveying etc.. One flow that seems to be confirmed if the delivery of rail to Portlaoise, which currently arrives via Waterford.. but this is just re-directing an existing flow rather than being a new to rail flow.. Containers, Foynes is in the wrong place and Ringaskiddy seems to have captured the deep sea market, having weekly calls from the US(ICL lines) and South America(Maersk line banana boat).. Other options were/are, exports of Baby food from Wyeth in Askeaton which is now closing and the movement of contamined soil from Roche(pronounce ROSH!) in Clarecastle which is currently being shipped from Foynes in 20ft containers on chartered vessels, however this project will likely be finished or nearly over by the time the Limerick/Foynes line is ready Edited January 29 by MOGUL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
226 Abhann na Suire Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 Freight aside, even passenger services to the likes of Adare and Askeaton (or even, dare we even hope about the north Kerry line, but Newcastle West…?) could, with a solid plan in place, really help these towns to grow into large commuter suburbs for people working in Limerick. And, possibly a tad hopeful rather than realistic, but the 2027 Ryder Cup is being hosted in Adare, and while I doubt the Shannon Rail Link will even be planned, let alone financed and built by that stage (though we can hope!) services from Limerick city and from Dublin to Adare could get a lot of Ryder Cup traffic… I know the yanks for certain would be smitten with a little branch line like the Foynes one…! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spudfan Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 On 29/1/2024 at 12:21 AM, jhb171achill said: and what happens if the next government doesn't include any Green Party in coalition? Would make me think that God actually exists 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 On 29/1/2024 at 4:41 PM, MOGUL said: The Pallas green mine seems to be the main one mentioned, but the mine itself seems to have made little progress towards actually happening, just some surveying etc.. One flow that seems to be confirmed if the delivery of rail to Portlaoise, which currently arrives via Waterford.. but this is just re-directing an existing flow rather than being a new to rail flow.. Containers, Foynes is in the wrong place and Ringaskiddy seems to have captured the deep sea market, having weekly calls from the US(ICL lines) and South America(Maersk line banana boat).. Other options were/are, exports of Baby food from Wyeth in Askeaton which is now closing and the movement of contamined soil from Roche(pronounce ROSH!) in Clarecastle which is currently being shipped from Foynes in 20ft containers on chartered vessels, however this project will likely be finished or nearly over by the time the Limerick/Foynes line is ready EXACTLY. Spot on. By any standard, even the most optimistic, or the most staunchly pro-rail, could never justify spending money on a new (or essentially new) railway, just to redirect traffic from a perfectly adequate existing one, or to duplicate an existing facility. My fears of white coloured elephants and inane politicians remain. One wonders if the Foynes money would have been better spent on Navan or Athenry to Claremorris. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOGUL Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 39 minutes ago, jhb171achill said: EXACTLY. Spot on. By any standard, even the most optimistic, or the most staunchly pro-rail, could never justify spending money on a new (or essentially new) railway, just to redirect traffic from a perfectly adequate existing one, or to duplicate an existing facility. My fears of white coloured elephants and inane politicians remain. One wonders if the Foynes money would have been better spent on Navan or Athenry to Claremorris. I was slightly pessimistic as I overlooked the grain/animal feed to Gain Feeds Portlaoise which previous ran from Foynes, Waterford(RH hall now demolished) and Dublin(doesn't want rail freight or Bulk traffic in the basin very much).. However again this is not a dead cert for rail traffic.. I have said it a hundred times, doubling Portarlington to Athlone would be the best spend of money on rail in this country, benefitting Passenger services to Westport and Galway as well as all currently operating freight services.. It should happen before WRC, Navan or even East Cork, but it just doesn't have the flash to it to get some local politician to put him back into it! With the extra Westport and Galway services(plus more container trains in the pipeline), that piece of track about to get even more congested! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorPan Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 53 minutes ago, jhb171achill said: EXACTLY. Spot on. By any standard, even the most optimistic, or the most staunchly pro-rail, could never justify spending money on a new (or essentially new) railway, just to redirect traffic from a perfectly adequate existing one, or to duplicate an existing facility. My fears of white coloured elephants and inane politicians remain. One wonders if the Foynes money would have been better spent on Navan or Athenry to Claremorris. Inane politicains aside, Foynes reopening was pushed by the Foynes Port and the EU themselves. Navan can't start work until DART+West is complete and Athenry to Claremorris needs Limerick to Ennis capacity improvements to be started first. Ironically deverting freight flows to/from Ballina/Westport to Foynes strengthens the business case for Athenry to Claremorris along with the freight terminal proposed for Limerick Junction. There's loads of moving parts to the network upgrades and a lot of projects to cooking away in the background that start the dominos for other projects to come on stream. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 46 minutes ago, DoctorPan said: Inane politicains aside, Foynes reopening was pushed by the Foynes Port and the EU themselves. Navan can't start work until DART+West is complete and Athenry to Claremorris needs Limerick to Ennis capacity improvements to be started first. Ironically deverting freight flows to/from Ballina/Westport to Foynes strengthens the business case for Athenry to Claremorris along with the freight terminal proposed for Limerick Junction. There's loads of moving parts to the network upgrades and a lot of projects to cooking away in the background that start the dominos for other projects to come on stream. Very good and valid point, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irishrailways52 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) On 28/1/2024 at 10:54 PM, dave182 said: As asked originally by Patrick early on in this thread, and again by Mayner, are any viable freight flows identified for this line? Much as I want this line to be successful, I'm struggling to find viable flows. Ore was the original one being mentioned, but with all that has happened with the price of zinc and Bolidon/Tara Mines this past couple or years I can't see that happening. Is biomass a consideration? To Edenderry maybe? Like the Drax in the UK? Imported wood pellets from Canada. The cement industry has been mentioned too, but what from where would need to go through Foynes Port? And the renewables industry keeps getting mentioned. But what rail flows could this actively support? Containers then... I don't believe there is enough import export to the US/South America to support this. My own opinions. If anyone has other reasonable ideas, suggestions or information I'd love to hear your thoughts. Dublin port is currently just about at capacity. the plan from what I know is to massively expand foynes port and move a lot of shipping from there to foynes. there will more than lightly be a passenger service to adare for 2026. Edited February 2 by irishrailways52 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhb171achill Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 On 2/2/2024 at 9:10 PM, irishrailways52 said: Dublin port is currently just about at capacity. the plan from what I know is to massively expand foynes port and move a lot of shipping from there to foynes. there will more than lightly be a passenger service to adare for 2026. Let’s hope so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOGUL Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) On 2/2/2024 at 9:10 PM, irishrailways52 said: Dublin port is currently just about at capacity. the plan from what I know is to massively expand foynes port and move a lot of shipping from there to foynes. there will more than lightly be a passenger service to adare for 2026. Sounds like something that was heard from a driver in Heuston… This idea that there is some over arching plan to move services to Foynes( the same pops up with Shannon) is nonsense.. Ports(or airports) and governments have very little say in what services they get, as the services are operated by privately owned companies that go where the demand is.. Hence the Dublin centric nature of our shipping and airline routes Edited February 4 by MOGUL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOGUL Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 On 2/2/2024 at 4:38 PM, DoctorPan said: Inane politicains aside, Foynes reopening was pushed by the Foynes Port and the EU themselves. Navan can't start work until DART+West is complete and Athenry to Claremorris needs Limerick to Ennis capacity improvements to be started first. Ironically deverting freight flows to/from Ballina/Westport to Foynes strengthens the business case for Athenry to Claremorris along with the freight terminal proposed for Limerick Junction. There's loads of moving parts to the network upgrades and a lot of projects to cooking away in the background that start the dominos for other projects to come on stream. While what you say might make sense from a rail freight within Ireland point of view, it makes zero sense to a freight forwarder like me, where the rail journey is just a small part of the overall shipments transport.. Foynes is in the wrong place for services from Europe and has no large traffic generator near by to provide a base load to a container service.. It might work for some bulk traffic, but so could any port on the island, and if you are going to land in Foynes and forward by rail then there is probably a port nearby than is more convenient 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorPan Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 4/2/2024 at 1:04 PM, MOGUL said: While what you say might make sense from a rail freight within Ireland point of view, it makes zero sense to a freight forwarder like me, where the rail journey is just a small part of the overall shipments transport.. Foynes is in the wrong place for services from Europe and has no large traffic generator near by to provide a base load to a container service.. It might work for some bulk traffic, but so could any port on the island, and if you are going to land in Foynes and forward by rail then there is probably a port nearby than is more convenient I can only go by the reports I read for the project and my memory of pre-covid days but that was the main justification given by the Foynes Harbour as to why they were pushing and paying for the reinstatement of the link. EU agreed with them as it's part of the TEN-T network and should be rail connected. What ever rolls on it professionally is of no concern to me, at the time I just needed to know the linespeed to check the aligment against. Post Covid and now involved in managing projects in the area, IÉ, our client wants us to be aware of is the freight strategy/item of note when making design decisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayner Posted February 7 Share Posted February 7 One of Ireland's biggest competitive advantages is that most of its high value/high volume export industries are located near ports eliminating the need for long haul road or rail transport to the Ports. Cork pharmaceutical and chemical processing, Dublin almost everything, Limerick-Shannon Aluminium refining and processing. Ballina/Mayo Intermodal freight is a hangover from the days the Irish Government provided subsidies (including favourable freight rates) for heavy manufacturing Industry to locate in the West. Its more convenient and economic to ship Irelands food exports (meat and dairy) to the UK and EU by road and Ro-Ro Ferries. Limerick-Foynes paying for the rail link should be a good incentive to use it! Port and Logistics companies funding rail links and terminals is common practice internationally. Perhaps time for Dublin or Waterford Ports to fund Inland Ports in the South West (Mallow/Cork) and West (Athenry) and even freight rolling stock 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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