Generator coaches for MkIIa and MkIII coaches.

[Robert Davies]

As I understand it, the non-aircon MkIIa coaches as modelled by Bachmann for Murphy Models need a different generating coach than the MkIID aircon coaches as commissioned and modelled by Murphy Models directly. What type did the Mk11a type require?

 

The MkIII coaches, could they run with any other type of generating coaches apart from a MkIII?

 

Thanks for any assistance,

 

-Rob

[gm171 kk]

http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/ir-ie-generating-steam-van-dutch/

These are the type or generator van that used to run with the mk2a coaches. These is also a kit DC kits make that is the modified version of the Dutch generator van which also ran with the mk2as.

Don't think the mk3 EGVs ever ran with other types of coaches. But I could be wrong.

[Garfield]

The MkIIA coaches ran with rebuilt Dundalk vans. A kit/RTR version is available from Silverfox:

http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/ir-ie-electricity-generating-van-dutch/

 

The MkIIIs only ever ran with MkIII generator vans.

[Robert Davies]

The Dundalk vans being the vans built under license from the Dutch?

 

-Rob

[Garfield]

Sorry, Rob... yes, you're correct. The Werkspoor/Dundalk vans.

 

Here's a photo of the model of the rebuilt version as used with the MkIIAs: http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/img/gi_14_7_700_466.jpg

[RedRich]

Rob the first release of the (converted for use with MK11A,B,C,) Dutch Vans from DC Kits had a MK1 type gangway fitted to the models. The prototypes were fitted with MK111 gangways. Pats link to the (correct for MK11A,B,C,'s) DC Kits model is of one of the first releases. I don't know if they corrected this on further batches. To add to what the lads have said MK111's only ever ran in service with MK111 EGV's, unless there were some loose coupled movements inside Inchicore.

 

The Dutch Vans converted were

4601 formerly 3162

4602 formerly 3163

4603 formerly 3166

 

HTH

 

Rich,

[josefstadt]

http://silverfoxmodels.co.uk/ir-ie-generating-steam-van-dutch/

These are the type or generator van that used to run with the mk2a coaches. These is also a kit DC kits make that is the modified version of the Dutch generator van which also ran with the mk2as.

Don't think the mk3 EGVs ever ran with other types of coaches. But I could be wrong.

 

The model in this link is of the unconverted Dutch Steam Heating Van/Generating Steam Van, which operated with Cravens, Park Royals, Laminates etc. This version doesn't have the built-up ends and the MkII/MkIII gangways. They were numbered 3157 - 3166

 

The model in the #5 post by Garfield http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/img/gi_14_7_700_466.jpg shows the rebuilt version for use with the MkII air braked stock. The numbers of these vans after conversion were as listed in Rich's post.

[Robert Davies]

Sincerest thanks for that chaps!

 

To expand this slightly and to try and confirm what little knowledge I have...

 

Cravens - Vac braked and steam heated, needs Mk1 Steam van or original Dutch van.

 

MkIID Aircon - Vac braked and Electric Train Heating, needs MkIId gen van.

 

MkIIAB - Air braked and ETH(?) needs rebuilt Dutch gen van.

 

MkIII - Air braked and ETH, needs MkIII gen van.

 

That's as far as my interests lie, but I do note that MkIII gen vans are making a comeback on the Enterprise sets to relieve the accelerated wear on the 201s due to HEP requirements.

 

-Rob

[RedRich]

Sincerest thanks for that chaps!

 

To expand this slightly and to try and confirm what little knowledge I have...

 

Cravens - Vac braked and steam heated, needs Mk1 Steam van or original Dutch van.

 

MkIID Aircon - Vac braked and Electric Train Heating, needs MkIId gen van.

 

MkIIAB - Air braked and ETH(?) needs rebuilt Dutch gen van.

 

MkIII - Air braked and ETH, needs MkIII gen van.

 

That's as far as my interests lie, but I do note that MkIII gen vans are making a comeback on the Enterprise sets to relieve the accelerated wear on the 201s due to HEP requirements.

 

-Rob

 

Spot on Rob. The DC Kits refurbished van is a nice model. The bogies are a good representation. I think scratch built underframe tanks would enhance it even more. If DC Kits haven't already corrected the gangway it would make for a nice project to correct it yourself.

 

Rich,

[Robert Davies]

Again, thanks for the advice Rich, I took a look over at the last yuku site at Eamonn's build of the Dutch van. That build shows to me what is capable with the kit. Looking at protoype pics I think you (Rich) have identified what was bothering me slightly about the kit - the underframe tanks/details are somewhat underdone in the kit, and would benefit the final build significantly if they where upgraded with a little bit of fabrication work. I'll have to place an order with Charlie in the new year - the revised Dutch Van kit looks like a nice project to develop some more skills on

 

A final question! For now(!)

 

When the Dutch vans where upgraded for the MKIIab stock, where they painted to match ie the VW Brilliant Orange colour? or did they remain the duller Cravens-esque colour?

 

-Rob

[BosKonay]

Cravens - Vac braked and steam heated, needs Mk1 Steam van or original Dutch van.

 

MkIID Aircon - Vac braked and Electric Train Heating, needs MkIId gen van.

 

MkIIAB - Air braked and ETH(?) needs rebuilt Dutch gen van.

 

MkIII - Air braked and ETH, needs MkIII gen van.

[Garfield]

Again, thanks for the advice Rich, I took a look over at the last yuku site at Eamonn's build of the Dutch van. That build shows to me what is capable with the kit. Looking at protoype pics I think you (Rich) have identified what was bothering me slightly about the kit - the underframe tanks/details are somewhat underdone in the kit, and would benefit the final build significantly if they where upgraded with a little bit of fabrication work. I'll have to place an order with Charlie in the new year - the revised Dutch Van kit looks like a nice project to develop some more skills on

 

A final question! For now(!)

 

When the Dutch vans where upgraded for the MKIIab stock, where they painted to match ie the VW Brilliant Orange colour? or did they remain the duller Cravens-esque colour?

 

-Rob

 

You'll need to reference photos. The MkIIAs didn't receive a different shade of orange, as such. It all depended on the batch of paint... there could even be noticeable differences within rakes.

[kevrail]

I know someone in this group may find this useful - I Hope

[heirflick]

excelent pics kevrail - thanks:tumbsup: like the one of the enterprise logo and numbering!

[Noel]

Cravens - Vac braked and steam heated, needs Mk1 Steam van or original Dutch van.

 

Hi BosKonay

 

Was reading over some interesting old threads. Do you mind me asking the source of this model? Was it a Silverfox, RTR, Kit, or a self build or modification?

 

Thanks

Noel

[Glenderg]

That's a sliverfox model noel, either rtr or kit available. Boxcar willie has just completed a kit build with mousa overlay brass etches - another option. Richie

[Noel]

That's a sliverfox model noel, either rtr or kit available. Boxcar willie has just completed a kit build with mousa overlay brass etches - another option. Richie

 

Thanks Richie. I have a rake of very old Lima Mk1s in original CIE livery. I'm wondering if I could or should attempt converting two of them to EGVs, or go for Silverfox. Neither my eyesight nor my hand coordination are what they were 10 years ago, not sure my modelling skills would be up to it. Reading the other thread of Boxcar Willie's with interest.

[DiveController]

Would someone explain what is the difference between MKI and MkIII gangways referred to in the thread?

 

Secondly for clarity are the terms "Steam Heating Van" and "Heating (& Luggage) Van - HLV" synonymous, I.e have a boiler for the production of steam only for train heating, with train lighting being provided by dynamos on the bogies?

 

If so, is the term Generating Steam Van (GSV) synonymous with the terms above or do these vans have both boilers for heating and generators for electricity to provide lighting e.g. Train Line (TL) on Cravens and earlier stock

 

With the introduction of MkIId's, MkIIa's & MkIIIs, lighting and electric heating was by means of the appropriate MKII, MKIII EGV or Converted/Rebuilt Dutch EGV(?)

Edited April 5, 2016 by DiveController

[Dhu Varren]

Pullman gangways are associated with the buckeye automatic coupling. Prior to Nationalisation the coupling was widely adopted by the Southern (Maunsell and Bulleid) and the LNER ( Gresley and Thompson) as well as being used on Pullman cars. The LNER are probably unique in UK steam in pullman gangways were used on coridor tenders. Post Nationalisation Pullman gangways were used on MK1, and later, hauled coaching stock plus a number of EMUs. Coach side buffers play no part in Pullman to Pullman conections with the bellows part being kept together with sprongs at the bottom of the gangway. There are no clips or other fittings holding the gangways together, simply spring pressure. As far as I know all Pullman, LNER, Southern and BR gangways are compatable

 

Standard gangways were used on all GW and LMS corridor vehicles and some on the Southern and for some reason all the DMU Fleet. Having shunted two coaches together and coupled them using the screw coupling the gangways need to be deployed. The gangways are free to move back and forth and need to be held in the collapsed position by hooks. Having released all 4 hooks, manual effort is needed to pull/push the two bellows units together. To hold the bellows together each has a U shaped clip to fix one end plate to the other. The one clip per bellows is always on the same side so the one on the other coach clips the other side together. Standard gangways are very mandraulic and really require two shunters.

 

Incompatability - Whilst a standard gangway vehicle can be coupled to a Pullman fitted vehicle, buffers long and buckeye dropped, unmodified standard gangways cannot connect . Firstly the standard gangway is narrower than the Pullman there is only a single clip. To overcome this problem some standard gangways are modified with two much wider mounted clips which fit over the Pullman gangway. In this configuration the gangway is safe to use.

 

Prior to the introduction of Mk2 & Mk3 coaching stock, Irish stock was fitted with Standard 'bellows' type gangways. The ex BR Mk1 GSVs had their Pullman gangways replaced with Standard gangways in order to run with the likes of Cravens etc.

[BSGSV]

Regarding the HLV and GSV differences, this thread has explored this subject before:

http://irishrailwaymodeller.com/showthread.php/3553-Generator-cars-for-irish-coaching-stock-specifically-HLV?highlight=steam+heat+van

Edited April 5, 2016 by BSGSV