Horsetan Posted February 11 Posted February 11 21 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said: ....Rather than scrap the whole thing, I'd like to make something using as much of the original as possible, or sensible: mainly the bodies and the wheels if I can get the rust off them. Add to these a scratch-built compensated chassis for the loco with a nice High Level gearbox and motor. For the tender, another scratch-built chassis with one fixed and two sprung axles.... You may be able to adapt a London Road Models 2F chassis - see ref. "Chas6" at the bottom of the list 1
Andy Cundick Posted February 11 Posted February 11 Check out ebay theres someone who does a new etched chassis for them Andy 1
Horsetan Posted February 11 Posted February 11 15 minutes ago, Andy Cundick said: Check out ebay theres someone who does a new etched chassis for them Andy It's this fella - real name Dave Basford, a.k.a K2 Kits. I've attached a copy of his current etch list for anyone who fancies a go at ordering direct from him. the etch list latest 23-04-25.pdf 1 2 1
Colonel Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Interesting piece of archaeology. Back in the day, stuff like this was all you had when there was no rtr - and very grateful we were too. Even etched brass kits were few and far between. I think I made two: a Terrier and an Adams Radial, both in EM. The Terrier was ok, but the 4-4-2T neither ran nor looked good. Chassis on both were 1/16th brass strip and the axle holes didn't match the coupling rod spacing! Ultimately, it got you into scratchbuilding... 3
Galteemore Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Scope here for a 4 Yorkshiremen sketch….‘Young modellers today, I remember when we had to mine our own brass’. ‘Brass?! - you were lucky. I once had to built a Claud Hamilton in full GER livery with working motion out of gravel I found in’t road’….. 2 4
Mol_PMB Posted February 12 Posted February 12 4 minutes ago, Galteemore said: Scope here for a 4 Yorkshiremen sketch….‘Young modellers today, I remember when we had to mine our own brass’. ‘Brass?! - you were lucky. I once had to built a Claud Hamilton in full GER livery with working motion out of gravel I found in’t road’….. 'Claud'!? What were you doing with one of those tram engines from t'smoke? Tha should know all proper engines were hewn in Yorkshire! 4
Horsetan Posted February 12 Posted February 12 4 hours ago, Galteemore said: Scope here for a 4 Yorkshiremen sketch….‘Young modellers today, I remember when we had to mine our own brass’. ‘Brass?! - you were lucky. I once had to built a Claud Hamilton in full GER livery with working motion out of gravel I found in’t road’….. "Gravel? Luxury!!" 4
Andy Cundick Posted February 12 Posted February 12 My earliest scratchbuilds were in steel admittedly not the whole loco just various bits and they were fullsize,Class 56 fan grills anyone ? Andy 1 3
Mol_PMB Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Yorkshire residents have it easy these days - they can even choose to have their food cooked if they wish! 2
Flying Snail Posted February 12 Posted February 12 5 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: Yorkshire residents have it easy these days - they can even choose to have their food cooked if they wish! 1 3
Mayner Posted February 12 Posted February 12 Alan It might be worth considering using the existing chassis rather than fitting an etched compensated chassis, the combination of heavy whitemetal loco body and strip brass frames is likely to result in a smooth running loco when assembled with a rigid chassis. I assembled several whitemetal kits with similar rigid chasssis during the 90s which turned out to be smooth reliable runners, at the time I mainly used Branchlines gearboxes as HI-Level gearboxes had not yet arrived on the scene. Alan Gibson produces an outside crank set which includes an extended axle which may be an option of the existing driving wheels and coupling rods are usable. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/5000/. The cranks are moulded in the same nylon material as the wheel sets, although I substitute a 14ba brass bolt for the crankpin as I always managed to ring off the AGW steel crankpin. Back in the day Beyer Peacock built some outside frame locos for the Ulster Railway though don't recall a photo of an 0-6-0. So possibly a kit bash for Kieran's loco 2
Mayner Posted February 13 Posted February 13 17 hours ago, Colonel said: Interesting piece of archaeology. Back in the day, stuff like this was all you had when there was no rtr - and very grateful we were too. Even etched brass kits were few and far between. I think I made two: a Terrier and an Adams Radial, both in EM. The Terrier was ok, but the 4-4-2T neither ran nor looked good. Chassis on both were 1/16th brass strip and the axle holes didn't match the coupling rod spacing! Ultimately, it got you into scratchbuilding... "Back in the day" when I joined a club as a junior member (14-15) in the early 70s the vast majority of members collected/ran rtr models (British & Continental outline) with a small minority who collected and assembled kits, one professional modelmaker who batch built mainly 7mm models of Irish outline locos and stock and one off comissions and a 1-2 modellers who modelled A Class diesels and Supertrain stock using a combination of scratchbuilding (mainly plasticard) and heavily modified BR rtr stock. Although one of the minority of model makers had assembled (though not painted) a largish fleet of LMS locos (incl a Ks Coal Tank, various Wills and GEM loco kits)), the majority had assembled and completed small-medium size tank locos of a GW or Southern theme. When I re-joined the club 20 years later some of the remaining model makers from the 70s had moved up to O Gauge or had shifted to 4mm Irish Outline modelling outline modelling using contemporary MIR and TMD/SSM kits. One of the most impressive things was that a younger generation of modellers had taken the initiative to scratchbuild and kitbash models of IE & NIR contemporary operations. A high proportion of the modelling was to a high standard exemplified by the construction of a 'fleet' of 201 diesels with plasticard bodies on Atheran chassis and the Greystones Layout the pre-cursor of the Barrow Street layout with the use of production techniques for the production of railcars and coaching stock. 5
Colonel Posted February 13 Posted February 13 16 hours ago, Andy Cundick said: My earliest scratchbuilds were in steel admittedly not the whole loco just various bits and they were fullsize,Class 56 fan grills anyone ? Andy When I first joined the Chatham Club, back in the last century, one of the then senior members scratch built all his locos from tinplate - either 5 gallon Castrol GTX tins, or catering size food tins. Indeed, thinking about it, weren't Leinster Models kits originally run plate? 2 1
Tullygrainey Posted February 13 Author Posted February 13 (edited) 10 hours ago, Mayner said: Alan It might be worth considering using the existing chassis rather than fitting an etched compensated chassis, the combination of heavy whitemetal loco body and strip brass frames is likely to result in a smooth running loco when assembled with a rigid chassis. I assembled several whitemetal kits with similar rigid chasssis during the 90s which turned out to be smooth reliable runners, at the time I mainly used Branchlines gearboxes as HI-Level gearboxes had not yet arrived on the scene. Alan Gibson produces an outside crank set which includes an extended axle which may be an option of the existing driving wheels and coupling rods are usable. https://www.wizardmodels.ltd/shop/locomotive/5000/. The cranks are moulded in the same nylon material as the wheel sets, although I substitute a 14ba brass bolt for the crankpin as I always managed to ring off the AGW steel crankpin. Back in the day Beyer Peacock built some outside frame locos for the Ulster Railway though don't recall a photo of an 0-6-0. So possibly a kit bash for Kieran's loco Thanks for this John. The whitemetal body is indeed really heavy and I did consider using the original rigid chassis frames, reasoning that it might run like a bulldozer, i.e. unstoppable. However the weather these last few days has been non-stop rain so I mostly stayed indoors and have already started on a scratchbuilt chassis for the thing . Still, since this project is really an exercise in what might be possible, I might build something round the original chassis frames too. I have a set of Gibson outside cranks in front of me as I write this. I'm hoping to use these as you suggest along with the Gibson extended axles and the original wheels. I'm substituting the original coupling rods for a set of Lanarkshire Models Fowler 4F etched rods (now available from High Level Kits) which are exactly the right length and should look better than the originals. They're also articulated with a proper knuckle connection. Lovely little etch. Edited February 13 by Tullygrainey 2
murrayec Posted February 13 Posted February 13 7 hours ago, Colonel said: When I first joined the Chatham Club, back in the last century, one of the then senior members scratch built all his locos from tinplate - either 5 gallon Castrol GTX tins, or catering size food tins. Indeed, thinking about it, weren't Leinster Models kits originally run plate? I have seen one Class A loco body constructed from tin cans (can't remember the type, but the print was free to see inside the model) and believe the model was based on a Leinster Models kit! Eoin 2 1
Galteemore Posted February 13 Posted February 13 Tinplate is great for loco building as long as you can keep the rust off it! 1 1
Mayner Posted February 14 Posted February 14 7 hours ago, Galteemore said: Tinplate is great for loco building as long as you can keep the rust off it! The older generation of model makers including Sam Carse used tinplate spoke about sourcing tinplate from Belfast in a newspaper article on his CDJR system during the late 60s/early 70s, Harry Connaghton a Dublin based professional model maker active during 60s -80s trialed tinplate on some 7mm GNR 0-6-0s but reverted to n/s possibly customer preference. I think problems with rust was likely due to use of failure to neutralise Bakers Flux. When I started model making my main source of tin was from drinks cans! shifted to brass when Ks metal sheet became available in hobby shops. I built an O gauge Ranks wagon with a tinplate body on a Triang-Big-Big chassis over 40 odd years ago, corded solder and "Frys' flux not much of a paint job wonder if it survived. 3 1
Horsetan Posted February 22 Posted February 22 On 11/2/2026 at 9:47 PM, Horsetan said: It's this fella - real name Dave Basford, a.k.a K2 Kits. I've attached a copy of his current etch list for anyone who fancies a go at ordering direct from him. the etch list latest 23-04-25.pdf 234.66 kB · 22 downloads Dave Basford's further updated etch list attached. the etch list latest 16.02.26.pdf
Horsetan Posted February 22 Posted February 22 On 13/2/2026 at 3:51 PM, Galteemore said: Tinplate is great for loco building as long as you can keep the rust off it! I remember a feature long ago, in the 1979 Model Railway Constructor Annual, which described a dual-purpose layout that could run either UK-outline stock, or SNCF. It was the French part I was interested in, as some of the locomotives were built from baked bean tins, a remarkably effective technique with corrosion seemingly not a problem.
Galteemore Posted February 22 Posted February 22 17 minutes ago, Horsetan said: I remember a feature long ago, in the 1979 Model Railway Constructor Annual, which described a dual-purpose layout that could run either UK-outline stock, or SNCF. It was the French part I was interested in, as some of the locomotives were built from baked bean tins, a remarkably effective technique with corrosion seemingly not a problem. Yes, that’s probably food grade stuff, with a protective coating. The exact words of an expert builder on Gauge O Guild forum, who creates coarse scale old school models is ‘ a downside of tinplate is that it will corrode if left unpainted’. Presumably he is talking about commercially available flat sheets of tinplate rather than salvaged food containers.
Tullygrainey Posted March 31 Author Posted March 31 The Kirtley project (see above) got parked while waiting for gearbox parts. Those have arrived now and I'll get back to it presently but In the meantime, another loco for Kieran Lagan, a Studio Scale Models kit for an E Class/J26 which I think may have been in his to-do drawer for a while Gearbox first, and as usual the device of choice is from HIgh Level, a RoadRunner Compact+. This one is low profile and has an articulated final drive to help fit it into tight spaces. Sewing machine smooth as usual. I think this one is an earlier version because it has a brass final drive gear and the one I got recently for the Kirtley is different. IMG_4677.MOV The chassis as designed has compensation on 2 axles but rather than horn guides it has twin beams each holding 2 fixed axle bearings and each pivoting about its centre point on a rod fixed across the chassis. I convinced myself that this arrangement couldn't work because it wouldn't allow the axles to tilt - essential for keeping both the wheels in contact with the rails at all times - and in theory I think this is true. If one wheel rises, it will take its mate at the other end of the axle with it. However in practice, the 'give' in the system such as running clearance in the bearings and a bit of slack at the pivots permits enough tilt to do the business. The actual job of installing these was fiddly and the instructions are brief(!) I found that the beams, which are meant to sit against the inside of the chassis frames, tended to stray towards the middle so I've added a bit of brass tube over the rod on which they pivot, just wide enough to fit between the beams and keep them in their proper place. The instructions suggest installing the beams and only then making up the coupling rods. To my mind, that's putting enormous faith in the accuracy of the etch AND the accuracy of the build given that by convention, all the holes are etched slightly undersize and need to be reamed out. There's margin for error there! I did it the other way round in order to use the rods as jigs and be sure of getting the axle bearings in exactly the right place. Belt and braces I've since had a bit of a mishap while reaming out the rods for crankpin bushes but that's a story for another day. It's way past my bedtime. More soon, Alan 11
Mol_PMB Posted April 1 Posted April 1 Excellent to see this, and good progress! I have one of these kits in the stash too, so I'm looking forward to following this build and it might inspire me to get started on mine too. Are you building to 16.5mm gauge? Have you chosen a prototype loco yet? 2 1
Patrick Davey Posted April 1 Posted April 1 Nice to see a MGWR subject - @jhb171achill will be pleased! Lovely prototype too. 3
Tullygrainey Posted April 1 Author Posted April 1 (edited) 2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said: Are you building to 16.5mm gauge? Have you chosen a prototype loco yet? 16.5mm Paul and I'll need to consult Kieran about the target prototype. The kit is designed to be built in pre-grouping E Class form but Kieran would like a later era J26 so we'll need a different chimney and safety valves as well as a few other modifications. Edited April 1 by Tullygrainey 1 1
Mol_PMB Posted April 1 Posted April 1 10 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said: 16.5mm Paul and I'll need to consult Kieran about the target prototype. The kit is designed to be built in pre-grouping E Class form but Kieran would like a later era J26 so we'll need a different chimney and safety valves as well as a few other modifications. That's interesting, because I have the same preference aiming for 1960 condition or thereabouts, and locos working in Cork/Kerry. I think my decision is between 552, 559 or 560. Looking at photos there are plenty of differences between them - 552 has a small bunker extension, 559 has bigger buffers, 560 has the W&T enlarged cab and modified footsteps. I imagine there were such differences between all the locos by the 1950s/60s. 2 1
Galteemore Posted April 1 Posted April 1 17 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: That's interesting, because I have the same preference aiming for 1960 condition or thereabouts, and locos working in Cork/Kerry. I think my decision is between 552, 559 or 560. Looking at photos there are plenty of differences between them - 552 has a small bunker extension, 559 has bigger buffers, 560 has the W&T enlarged cab and modified footsteps. I imagine there were such differences between all the locos by the 1950s/60s. Most interesting. Any survive c1957 with small bunker and plates on the tank sides rather than painted numerals ? Asking for a friend…. 1
Mol_PMB Posted April 1 Posted April 1 557 may be the best bet, seems to have survived into the late 1950s with a numberplate but small bunker: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511679834 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511776694 551 was in this condition but withdrawn at Inchicore in 1955: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251301311 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509201534 Otherwise I think they all lost their plates, or got the W&T cab. 1
Galteemore Posted April 1 Posted April 1 5 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: 557 may be the best bet, seems to have survived into the late 1950s with a numberplate but small bunker: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511679834 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53511776694 551 was in this condition but withdrawn at Inchicore in 1955: https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/54251301311 https://www.flickr.com/photos/irishrailwayarchive/53509201534 Otherwise I think they all lost their plates, or got the W&T cab. Thanks Paul. It would be the Sligo pilot I’d be looking at so no extended cab. If necessary I’ll do the large numbers but I do like the plates ! 1
Mol_PMB Posted April 1 Posted April 1 3 minutes ago, Galteemore said: Thanks Paul. It would be the Sligo pilot I’d be looking at so no extended cab. If necessary I’ll do the large numbers but I do like the plates ! Most 1950s photos of Sligo show 558: DGM_MGWR_558_Sligo_Quay_c1950s | [Photographer: Denis G Morr… | Flickr RNC_MGWR_558_Sligo_15_Sept_1956 | [Photographer: Robin N Cle… | Flickr RNC_MGWR_558_Sligo_15_Sept_1956 (2) | [Photographer: Robin N… | Flickr MAJ_MGWR_558_Sligo_Quay_30_May_1957 (2) | [Photographer: Mik… | Flickr AEB_SLNCR_MGWR_Henry_558_Sligo_Quay_15_Aug_1957 | [Photograp… | Flickr Painted numbers, and small bunker extension. 1 1
Tullygrainey Posted April 1 Author Posted April 1 The Case of the Crippled Coupling Rod Each coupling rod assembly for the E Class/J26 is made up from two sections which hinge by overlapping on the centre axle. Each section is a lamination with two layers soldered together. At the overlap, each rod has only a single layer. With some half-etching to create bosses, the bits are pretty flimsy. Once soldered up the holes were reamed lightly to fit onto the jig axles (around 1.5mm diameter). All good so far. The kit came with Markits type threaded crankpins which take threaded crankpin bushes. This requires the holes in the rods to be reamed out to 2mm diameter and this is when disaster struck. A moment's lack of concentration, the reamer grabbed and the end of the rod twisted off. Unseemly language was used. In abundance. No way of soldering this back on! The solution, after I'd calmed down, was to use the equivalent rod from the other side (still with 1.5mm holes) as a jig to drill two 1.5mm holes the right distance apart in a strip of 16 thou nickel silver using the pillar drill. Onto this I soldered salvaged bits from the broken rod - the short rear piece on one side and two bosses on the other thus: Rear face... Front face... After reaming the holes to 2mm, the rough blank was filed to shape using the bit of original rod as a guide. The finished product will do the job, I hope. It's certainly more robust than the original. Rear face with the single thickness overlap at one end... Front face... Two plus hours just to get back where I started. Ah well, all grist to the mill Onward and upward, Alan 10 4
Mol_PMB Posted April 1 Posted April 1 That looks better than the original. More like the prototype, anyway. 1
Patrick Davey Posted April 1 Posted April 1 2 hours ago, Tullygrainey said: ...so we'll need a different chimney.... Stacks of research needed..... 2
Mol_PMB Posted April 1 Posted April 1 3 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said: Stacks of research needed..... You'll be exhausted by the time you've found the correct casting, but chuffed to get it right. 2
Galteemore Posted April 1 Posted April 1 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tullygrainey said: The Case of the Crippled Coupling Rod Each coupling rod assembly for the E Class/J26 is made up from two sections which hinge by overlapping on the centre axle. Each section is a lamination with two layers soldered together. At the overlap, each rod has only a single layer. With some half-etching to create bosses, the bits are pretty flimsy. Once soldered up the holes were reamed lightly to fit onto the jig axles (around 1.5mm diameter). All good so far. The kit came with Markits type threaded crankpins which take threaded crankpin bushes. This requires the holes in the rods to be reamed out to 2mm diameter and this is when disaster struck. A moment's lack of concentration, the reamer grabbed and the end of the rod twisted off. Unseemly language was used. In abundance. No way of soldering this back on! The solution, after I'd calmed down, was to use the equivalent rod from the other side (still with 1.5mm holes) as a jig to drill two 1.5mm holes the right distance apart in a strip of 16 thou nickel silver using the pillar drill. Onto this I soldered salvaged bits from the broken rod - the short rear piece on one side and two bosses on the other thus: Rear face... Front face... After reaming the holes to 2mm, the rough blank was filed to shape using the bit of original rod as a guide. The finished product will do the job, I hope. It's certainly more robust than the original. Rear face with the single thickness overlap at one end... Front face... Two plus hours just to get back where I started. Ah well, all grist to the mill Onward and upward, Alan Oh that’s horrible Alan. Same thing happened to me this week as I reassembled my latest loco. If you are not a loco-builder, it’s worth knowing that accurate rods are the foundation of a loco’s good running so anything that goes wrong with them is always distressing. Great solution Edited April 1 by Galteemore 1 2 1
Patrick Davey Posted April 1 Posted April 1 6 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said: You'll be exhausted by the time you've found the correct casting, but chuffed to get it right. Alan will be fuming at these puns..... 4
.png.c363cdf5c3fb7955cd92a55eb6dbbae0.png){kind=logo}
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now