Irish Royalty - Park Royal Coach Next For IRM

[west_clare_wanderer]

As a dedicated 'goods only' fella, I've not been drawn into these, but they do look wonderful. However, I must admit the temptation is growing to'just order one' for my rural branch line project...... 

[jhb171achill]

On 13/4/2026 at 6:36 PM, mphoey said:

Just thinking re ambulance park royals order of malta did most of the knock runs and they may have pictures

Worth looking into, as if so, they are less likely to have been published where railway enthusiasts might see them - if at all.

[jhb171achill]

9 hours ago, west_clare_wanderer said:

As a dedicated 'goods only' fella, I've not been drawn into these, but they do look wonderful. However, I must admit the temptation is growing to'just order one' for my rural branch line project...... 

There were many lines in the past that had extremely sparse passenger services - one or two a day - but carried heavy and varied goods traffic. Twenty or thirty years ago, ballina hasd heavy goods traffic, but the passenger service was one Park Royal and a van wandering down to Claremorris only a couple of times a day. West Cork and Limerick - Claremorris (the latter in the 1970s) had lots of gopods going up and down - more in the beet season - and little passenger traffic beyond Limerick - Ennis, and a look at that timetable pre-1976 shows but a single daily passenger each way, but lots of goods. So, a prototype for everything!

Going back further, the North Kerry and Mallow - Waterford in their later days had one goods and one passenger each way per day. And guess what - the goods was a lot busier than the passenger! 

[Horsetan]

10 hours ago, west_clare_wanderer said:

...I must admit the temptation is growing to'just order one' for my rural branch line project...... 

I took the same approach. Twice.

[Mol_PMB]

And on those sparse branch passenger services, Park Royals were surprisingly common, right from the mid 1950s through to the 1990s. 

There are plenty of photos of them running in AEC railcar sets in the late 1950s and 1960s, on the West Cork, Western Rail Corridor, and other secondary/branch lines. The summer Sunday excursions to Fenit in the 1960s and 1970 (otherwise a freight-only branch) often included a Park Royal or two in the set. And of course they were a staple of the local services around Limerick in the 1980s and 1990s.

So you can surely justify one, two, or more...

Edited April 17 by Mol_PMB
typo

[chris]

email request today to pay the invoice for these coaches but the order detail makes it seem like they're still a LONG way away...

where are we actually at?

[Mol_PMB]

My understanding (not the official line) is that they are on the ship from China, due to arrive in the UK late May, and probably distributed in early June. 

Given that there's a short grace period after they arrive before you have to pay, I don't think you need to rush to pay this month.

[WRENNEIRE]

Current Order Status: In Transit

Status Description: This item is now in transit to our warehouse.

Latest ETA: May 29, 2026
* Please note this date is for arrival / packing in the warehouse, we will send you Tracking details with your expected delivery date once the order is paid and processed and dispatched.

[DJ Dangerous]

1 hour ago, chris said:

email request today to pay the invoice for these coaches but the order detail makes it seem like they're still a LONG way away...

where are we actually at?

@Warbonnet posted on April 9th that the Park Royals were about eight weeks away:

 

On 9/4/2026 at 6:04 PM, Warbonnet said:

These are now departing China, and will be with us in circa 8 weeks time!

Mail-out on Monday 13th saying that they’re estimated in the warehouse on May 29th.

So it would be fair to assume that if nothing goes awry, they’ll start shipping orders in June.

The real question is what order the orders get shipped in?

First paid, first shipped?

If so, and you haven’t yet paid, get to the end of the queue!

[MOGUL]

49 minutes ago, DJ Dangerous said:

@Warbonnet posted on April 9th that the Park Royals were about eight weeks away:

 

Mail-out on Monday 13th saying that they’re estimated in the warehouse on May 29th.

So it would be fair to assume that if nothing goes awry, they’ll start shipping orders in June.

The real question is what order the orders get shipped in?

First paid, first shipped?

If so, and you haven’t yet paid, get to the end of the queue!

Not really an issue any more, as our new warehouse is a whopper that can pump out in the hundreds orders a day when in campaign mode.. So the difference between the start of the queue, and the bottom, is in hours not days

[DJ Dangerous]

7 minutes ago, MOGUL said:

Not really an issue any more, as our new warehouse is a whopper that can pump out in the hundreds orders a day when in campaign mode.. So the difference between the start of the queue, and the bottom, is in hours not days

I’m sure a brown envelope could rectify that. I’ll get working on a list of members who grind my gears.

[Mol_PMB]

Any chance of some photos of the models that arrived undamaged? To whet our appetite for the goodies to come in about 6 weeks time.

 

When do you anticipate making the next new Irish model announcement? Something at Wexford?

[west_clare_wanderer]

On 17/4/2026 at 11:33 AM, jhb171achill said:

There were many lines in the past that had extremely sparse passenger services - one or two a day - but carried heavy and varied goods traffic. Twenty or thirty years ago, ballina hasd heavy goods traffic, but the passenger service was one Park Royal and a van wandering down to Claremorris only a couple of times a day. West Cork and Limerick - Claremorris (the latter in the 1970s) had lots of gopods going up and down - more in the beet season - and little passenger traffic beyond Limerick - Ennis, and a look at that timetable pre-1976 shows but a single daily passenger each way, but lots of goods. So, a prototype for everything!

Going back further, the North Kerry and Mallow - Waterford in their later days had one goods and one passenger each way per day. And guess what - the goods was a lot busier than the passenger! 

 

On 17/4/2026 at 11:45 AM, Mol_PMB said:

And on those sparse branch passenger services, Park Royals were surprisingly common, right from the mid 1950s through to the 1990s. 

There are plenty of photos of them running in AEC railcar sets in the late 1950s and 1960s, on the West Cork, Western Rail Corridor, and other secondary/branch lines. The summer Sunday excursions to Fenit in the 1960s and 1970 (otherwise a freight-only branch) often included a Park Royal or two in the set. And of course they were a staple of the local services around Limerick in the 1980s and 1990s.

So you can surely justify one, two, or more...

 

I might regret asking this, but which of the batch of IRM Park Royals would be suitable for an early/mid 1970s branch line? There's such a plethora to choose from!

[Mol_PMB]

9 minutes ago, west_clare_wanderer said:

 

 

I might regret asking this, but which of the batch of IRM Park Royals would be suitable for an early/mid 1970s branch line? There's such a plethora to choose from!

You need an orange and black one without a TL suffix on the number.

1387 or 1413 would fit the bill, and both are still in stock.

Let me know if I need to explain why!

[Colin R]

I have ordered a buffet Car in Orange and Black since I am not sure if they ran in the green livery, as the rest of the order is all green livery.

I was just wondering, can someone who has a lot more knowledge than I do, can you please:-

1 How many carriages would be used to make up a typical suburban train set?

2 How many carriages would be used on a typical City to City Express set? 

 

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, Colin R said:

I have ordered a buffet Car in Orange and Black since I am not sure if they ran in the green livery, as the rest of the order is all green livery.

I was just wondering, can someone who has a lot more knowledge than I do, can you please:-

1 How many carriages would be used to make up a typical suburban train set?

2 How many carriages would be used on a typical City to City Express set? 

 

The Park Royal Snack Cars were converted from some of the former 'main line' Park Royal coaches in 1968, after the green livery had been superseded. Most lasted into the early 1980s before being converted again; some became brake standards (a type not yet produced by IRM).

In the green era, Park Royals could be found in a wide range of trains but usually mixed with other types of coaches, and/or formed into railcar sets. Dublin Suburban and Dublin to city expresses were often around 8 coaches but it varied a lot.

In the green era (and later) Park Royals also worked services such as Cork-Tralee which were often 4 coaches. There are photos showing them in Sligo-Limerick trains too, of similar length.

 

[Mol_PMB]

Some Park Royals in green in Dublin suburban trains, thanks to Ernie:

Join the campaign for an IRM C class and AEC Railcar

 

[Colin R]

2 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

The Park Royal Snack Cars were converted from some of the former 'main line' Park Royal coaches in 1968, after the green livery had been superseded. Most lasted into the early 1980s before being converted again; some became brake standards (a type not yet produced by IRM).

In the green era, Park Royals could be found in a wide range of trains but usually mixed with other types of coaches, and/or formed into railcar sets. Dublin Suburban and Dublin to city expresses were often around 8 coaches but it varied a lot.

In the green era (and later) Park Royals also worked services such as Cork-Tralee which were often 4 coaches. There are photos showing them in Sligo-Limerick trains too, of similar length.

 

Ok, thanks for that. Hum, I might have ot see if I can swap it out for another green one before they land in that case.

I do hope that a second batch with different numbers will be done at some point in the future

The proposed layout is to be based on Downpatrick, back in the 1950s, before it was closed. At some point, when the modelling budget allows, I would like to buy one or two railcars from that period

[chris]

9 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

@Warbonnet posted on April 9th that the Park Royals were about eight weeks away:

 

Mail-out on Monday 13th saying that they’re estimated in the warehouse on May 29th.

So it would be fair to assume that if nothing goes awry, they’ll start shipping orders in June.

The real question is what order the orders get shipped in?

First paid, first shipped?

If so, and you haven’t yet paid, get to the end of the queue!

hmmm... never got that mail out. *goes to check email sub settings.

thanks

I wish I had paid for them 2 months ago... would have been at least 5-6% cheaper with the FX rates, easy in hindsight, right?

Edited Saturday at 23:06 by chris

[west_clare_wanderer]

22 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

You need an orange and black one without a TL suffix on the number.

1387 or 1413 would fit the bill, and both are still in stock.

Let me know if I need to explain why!

 

Thank you very much. I am intrigued in learning more, but I don't want to take up your precious time, so will endeavour to delve deeper.

[Mol_PMB]

4 hours ago, west_clare_wanderer said:

 

Thank you very much. I am intrigued in learning more, but I don't want to take up your precious time, so will endeavour to delve deeper.

Well the orange and black livery (with one white line) as on those two models was introduced in 1962 and was not superseded until the late 1980s (with the addition of an extra white line). So that fixes the livery you need for the early 1970s. Also, you can rule out the coaches which have had a body rebuild (losing their round windows and their asbestos) as that didn't happen until the 1980s. 

Until the 1970s, Park Royals would have had their lights powered by a dynamo and batteries. Around 1970 'Train Line' lighting was first introduced, with the bogie steam heat vans also having generators for lighting, and electrical connections down the train. Dynamos and battery boxes were removed from the coaches, and a TL suffix was added to the number. This modification took a decade to spread across the fleet. Long distance main line trains had priority for the TL-fitted bogie steam heat vans (Dutch vans introduced in 1969 and BR vans in 1972) while secondary services carried on with the 4-wheel steam heat vans and unmodified carriages until the late 1970s when a further batch of bogie steam heat vans were converted from old coaches.

So for your "early/mid 1970s branch line" I'd say you need an unmodified carriage, still with dynamo and battery boxes, no TL suffix.

[Colin R]

Hopefully, I have been able to change part of my order, but looking on the web, it states that only 40 of these coaches were made. I am ok with that, but were any built with a brake van section?

If not, what would be suitable to run with them?

I am looking at my copy of the GSWR Carriage Diagram Book (which someone kindly let me have) for something which I could build (my only comment about the above book is make sure you measure the drawing, as I think in the printing process the dimensions have changed).

I happen to like coach No 875, a 1st /3rd Brake. The only problem I have is that I only have a drawing for one side of the coach, and that is the one with all the doors.   

[Mol_PMB]

In the context of Irish railways, 40 is a large batch! There were a total of 50 Park Royals. None were built with brake compartments, a few had them added i  the 1980s. 
The most suitable brake vehicle would be one or more 4-wheel tin vans (which have been available in kit form and a basic RTR). 

 

[Colin R]

5 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

In the context of Irish railways, 40 is a large batch! There were a total of 50 Park Royals. None were built with brake compartments, a few had them added i  the 1980s. 
The most suitable brake vehicle would be one or more 4-wheel tin vans (which have been available in kit form and a basic RTR). 

 

Hi, Thanks for that, it is these little things that make the difference between Irish and UK model railways.

[exciecoachbuilder]

Hi guys just to say, and remember  that these carriages were completely refurbished between I981- 1983. Blue asbestos was removed by a private contractor. Steel panels were fitted over the existing panels, the porthole windows ( side lights) were removed and covered with a panel, completely rewired etc. Roof straps were also riveted on over the existing roof panel joints.  

Paul..

[DJ Dangerous]

Clicking on the detailed description for any of the Park Royal coaches on the A/S website tells you which period that coach ran.

For example:

https://www.accurascale.ie/products/park-royal-d-176-suburban-no-1413?shpxid=7394ee96-c3cd-4cf5-bccd-2ed961682b34

 

 

[jhb171achill]

On 18/4/2026 at 7:38 PM, Colin R said:

I have ordered a buffet Car in Orange and Black since I am not sure if they ran in the green livery, as the rest of the order is all green livery.

I was just wondering, can someone who has a lot more knowledge than I do, can you please:-

1 How many carriages would be used to make up a typical suburban train set?

2 How many carriages would be used on a typical City to City Express set? 

 

Suburban sets might typically be about five PRs plus a van, of course. First time I ever travelled on the Cobh line in the early 70s, the train was (I think) two PRs, a laminate and a 4-wheeled tin van. But many photos show 4 or 5, and also in Dublin 5 or even 6 would be commonplace on suburban runs - but - mixed in with laminates. Rarely would a train be ALL PRs. Naturally, no matter what coaches you use, a genny van of some sort needs to be in the consist.

The snack cars were not in green, as they were introduced after that livery had been replaced. Only black'n'tan.

PRs on intercity trains were a complete mixed bag. I doubt if an intercity train was ever composed of nothing BUT PRs - I certainly never saw one and am unaware of any pictures showing them. Theoretically, of course, it's possible. The various types of laminates outnumbered the PRs, and there were of course Cravens in the mix too, after 1963. Thus, any typical main limne train could have had several Cravens, several PRs, and several laminates - and up to the early 70s, one of the last few Bredins.

As to numbers of vehicles (of whatever type) on main line trains, this could vary from maybe 5 or 6 to 10 or 12; again, with genny vans. 

The longest train I think I ever remember was a Cork departure which I think was about 10:30 out of Heuston. It tended to load well, and I saw it once passing Port Laoise with 10 or 11 bogies (a mixture of this and that, of course) and a van on each end. My friend Barry Carse once saw thirteen bogies and a van on (I think) a GAA special.

Loads of nine on Cork and Belfast services was commonplace, but again, of those nine, maybe only two were PRs.

On 18/4/2026 at 6:20 PM, west_clare_wanderer said:

 

I might regret asking this, but which of the batch of IRM Park Royals would be suitable for an early/mid 1970s branch line? There's such a plethora to choose from!

Pretty much any type!

Edited Tuesday at 00:12 by jhb171achill

[west_clare_wanderer]

On 19/4/2026 at 8:51 PM, Mol_PMB said:

Well the orange and black livery (with one white line) as on those two models was introduced in 1962 and was not superseded until the late 1980s (with the addition of an extra white line). So that fixes the livery you need for the early 1970s. Also, you can rule out the coaches which have had a body rebuild (losing their round windows and their asbestos) as that didn't happen until the 1980s. 

Until the 1970s, Park Royals would have had their lights powered by a dynamo and batteries. Around 1970 'Train Line' lighting was first introduced, with the bogie steam heat vans also having generators for lighting, and electrical connections down the train. Dynamos and battery boxes were removed from the coaches, and a TL suffix was added to the number. This modification took a decade to spread across the fleet. Long distance main line trains had priority for the TL-fitted bogie steam heat vans (Dutch vans introduced in 1969 and BR vans in 1972) while secondary services carried on with the 4-wheel steam heat vans and unmodified carriages until the late 1970s when a further batch of bogie steam heat vans were converted from old coaches.

So for your "early/mid 1970s branch line" I'd say you need an unmodified carriage, still with dynamo and battery boxes, no TL suffix.

 

Thank you ever so much. I've got no excuse now! I just need a 4-wheel steam heat van to accompany it. 

I really appreciate you taking the time to set all that out for me. I learn so much every time I log on here! Thank you for being so generous with your time and knowledge. 

[Mayner]

On 21/4/2026 at 5:51 AM, jhb171achill said:

Suburban sets might typically be about five PRs plus a van, of course. First time I ever travelled on the Cobh line in the early 70s, the train was (I think) two PRs, a laminate and a 4-wheeled tin van. But many photos show 4 or 5, and also in Dublin 5 or even 6 would be commonplace on suburban runs - but - mixed in with laminates. Rarely would a train be ALL PRs. Naturally, no matter what coaches you use, a genny van of some sort needs to be in the consist.

The snack cars were not in green, as they were introduced after that livery had been replaced. Only black'n'tan.

PRs on intercity trains were a complete mixed bag. I doubt if an intercity train was ever composed of nothing BUT PRs - I certainly never saw one and am unaware of any pictures showing them. Theoretically, of course, it's possible. The various types of laminates outnumbered the PRs, and there were of course Cravens in the mix too, after 1963. Thus, any typical main limne train could have had several Cravens, several PRs, and several laminates - and up to the early 70s, one of the last few Bredins.

As to numbers of vehicles (of whatever type) on main line trains, this could vary from maybe 5 or 6 to 10 or 12; again, with genny vans. 

The longest train I think I ever remember was a Cork departure which I think was about 10:30 out of Heuston. It tended to load well, and I saw it once passing Port Laoise with 10 or 11 bogies (a mixture of this and that, of course) and a van on each end. My friend Barry Carse once saw thirteen bogies and a van on (I think) a GAA special.

Loads of nine on Cork and Belfast services was commonplace, but again, of those nine, maybe only two were PRs.

Pretty much any type!

Ironically solid rakes of (refurbished) PR coaches only became common on suburban/secondary main line duties following the withdrawl of the Laminates during the e late 80s. From the 70s onwards Suburban, secondary and branch line trains tended to be made up of mixed rakes of conventional coaches rather than one particular coach type.

PR suburban coaches & Laminates were sometimes used to strengthen rakes of Craven stock on Intercity services. I travelled in a PR suburban (only available seat) from Heuston-Westport on a train otherwise made up of Craven stock on my first long distance train journey in Aug 76, 3-4 years later a group of us travelled on a Laminate coupled to the rear of a Craven st while travelling from Pearse to Rosslare (more comfortable than a Craven)

A late 70s Dublin outer Suburban service might include a mix of Inchacore built CIE timber bodies coaches (1951-4,1962-3), PR and Laminate Stock with bogie BSGV (converted from older stock.

Timber bodied stock withdrawn 1983-4 (commissioning of DART & introduction of first MK3 freeing up to PR & Craven stock for use on suburban/secondary main line services. Interestingly rakes of Craven stock (with BR van) appear to have been regularly diagramed to Dublin-Drogheda services when I worked near the line in 1985, though refurbished PRs (with BR Van) were working these services when I visited Ireland in 89/90 (expecting to see a MK3 Push-Pull.

PRs seemed to be the 'standard" IE suburban/secondary train during the late 80s-early 90s, remember travelling a rake of 4-5 Cravens w bogie van between Mallow & Killarney (Cork-Tralee train), seeing a PR + Bogie van of the Nenagh Branch train at Ballybrophy (001 rumoured to have 4 traction motors) and travelled from the Junction to Waterford and Rosslare in refurbished stock on a runabout ticket in 1992/3.

 

 

[Mol_PMB]

Agree with John. In the green era there were often one or two Park Royals in a train but mixed with other types. This was partly because Park Royals were only a small fraction of the overall fleet, but also because the majority had no toilets, there were none with first class, and to provide facilities for the guard they needed to run with a luggage and/or heating van or an alternative brake vehicle. 

This photo from Ernie dated 1955 shows three Park Royals in a suburban train at Bray. But there's also a CIE-built composite, and behind the water crane is, I think, a GSWR 50' arc-roof brake third. On the very back, a fitted goods van of some sort.

Here are some other suburban trains in the green era, also from Ernie's archive, which include one or more Park Royals:

 

[Richard EH]

On 13/4/2026 at 5:20 PM, jhb171achill said:

Bit like grey steam engines - they looked black so much, and so often, that many thought they were painted black. Same with domes, cab fronts, boilers and so on, with the sky-blue GNR and red Donegal liveries.  Yes, some diesels had black roofs, some green.

The black line round the red buffer beam was actually a throwback to steam days, when at least some grey locos had a black line rouind their buffer beams in the same way. Naturally, it soon became invisible!

So true on the Donegal liveries! You'll be please to know I did my model of a donegal class 5 with a red boiler, weathered over with soot to give it that Donegal look!

Kind Regards

Richard,.

[Horsetan]

On 20/4/2026 at 6:51 PM, jhb171achill said:

Suburban sets might typically be about five PRs plus a van, of course. First time I ever travelled on the Cobh line in the early 70s, the train was (I think) two PRs, a laminate and a 4-wheeled tin van. But many photos show 4 or 5, and also in Dublin 5 or even 6 would be commonplace on suburban runs - but - mixed in with laminates. Rarely would a train be ALL PRs. Naturally, no matter what coaches you use, a genny van of some sort needs to be in the consist.

The snack cars were not in green, as they were introduced after that livery had been replaced. Only black'n'tan.

PRs on intercity trains were a complete mixed bag. I doubt if an intercity train was ever composed of nothing BUT PRs - I certainly never saw one and am unaware of any pictures showing them. Theoretically, of course, it's possible. The various types of laminates outnumbered the PRs, and there were of course Cravens in the mix too, after 1963. Thus, any typical main limne train could have had several Cravens, several PRs, and several laminates - and up to the early 70s, one of the last few Bredins.

As to numbers of vehicles (of whatever type) on main line trains, this could vary from maybe 5 or 6 to 10 or 12; again, with genny vans. 

The longest train I think I ever remember was a Cork departure which I think was about 10:30 out of Heuston. It tended to load well, and I saw it once passing Port Laoise with 10 or 11 bogies (a mixture of this and that, of course) and a van on each end. My friend Barry Carse once saw thirteen bogies and a van on (I think) a GAA special.

Loads of nine on Cork and Belfast services was commonplace, but again, of those nine, maybe only two were PRs.

Pretty much any type!

I think you did say quite a while ago that it was rare for any train to be completely uniform; it was more a case of forming a train out of whatever stock was available that day.

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Horsetan said:

I think you did say quite a while ago that it was rare for any train to be completely uniform; it was more a case of forming a train out of whatever stock was available that day.

Exactly. 

You could have a train of seven carriages, no two the same, and another where 3 or 4 were the same but the others weren’t…. whatever was available was the key. 

The last time I ever travelled in a Bredin was on a day when a Heuston - Tralee service had been strengthened for a summer school party of a couple of hundred teenagers bound for the Kerry Gaeltacht. 

Mostly Cravens and laminates, but one particular scruffy-looking suburban PR and a Bredin side corridor with a distinct damp, musty smell even in summer stuck on at the front. The Bredin was right behind the loco, which was probably either a pair of 141s or an A. I was that keen to explore what turned out to be the last Bredin I ever saw in use, that I didn’t pay any attention to what was hauling me. 

Sure ye can see an oul A class on any line any day, can’t ye!

[Horsetan]

19 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

... a Bredin side corridor with a distinct damp, musty smell even in summer...

I'm guessing that any weatherproofing had long since failed

[Mayner]

 

 

Overcrowding and dampy musty coaches seems to have been part of the course in GSR days also.

Interestingly Railway Magazine features on Irish railways during the early 1930s include reports of passengers experiencing overcrowding and being forced to use damp coaches on the Dublin Galway (& West Ireland) Day mail during the holiday peak.

Apparently the train was strengthened with coaches which had been stored on a carriage siding with their windows open and upolstory and floors had become waterlogged. Following passenger complaints a gang of porters were dispatched with mops & brooms to 'sweep out' the water on the coach floors.