We Got A Flat - Announcing the Bulleid LB and PWD Flat Wagons

[Warbonnet]

Great news! Hot on the heels of our Dublin Show announcement of the Bulleid Open wagons, our next wagon on the iconic triangulated underframe is the LB flat wagons, and the Permanent Way Department variants! 

We have some exciting updates coming on the Bulleid opens before Christmas, but for now let's turn our attentions to the second wagon on this platform.

LB Flats

As Corás Iompair Éireann (CIÉ) continued its programme of rolling stock renewal under the tenure of Oliver Bulleid as its Chief Mechanical Engineer, Inchicore Works turned its attention to the construction of a humble but useful flat wagon with a 12-ton capacity. Utilising a version of Bulleid’s patented triangulated chassis developed as the basis for a variety of CIÉ wagons, a total of 79 were turned out between March and April 1958. Given the designation ‘LB’, these diminutive vehicles soon found their way into mixed goods trains the length and breadth of the Irish railway network.

Featuring removable stanchions and anchor points for tethering chains, the wagons could be quickly adapted to carry a variety of large single-unit loads, and they were commonly spotted at yards and goods sheds with items such as cars, tractors and pre-ISO containers on board. They were also pressed into service on permanent way trains to carry equipment and even small amounts of ballast and spoil.

The winding-down of wagonload goods traffic in favour of more lucrative and efficient trainload ‘liner’ operations in the 1970s meant that the LB flat wagons became a rare sight as the decade wore on, but they could still occasionally be found in maintenance trains until the early 1980s.

PWD Flats

The last development in the series of two-axle wagons produced by Corás Iompair Éireann (CIÉ) to feature Oliver Bulleid’s triangulated underframe design is one the company’s then Chief Mechanical Engineer likely did not envisage while overseeing design and production of ‘H Vans’ during the 1950s.

The rise of continuously-braked ‘liner’ trains in the 1970s heralded the demise of the quaint and old-fashioned wagonload approach and CIÉ found itself with hundreds of redundant wagons. The scale of this transition necessitated the establishment of a scrapping facility at the old Midland Great Western Railway permanent way yard in Mullingar, where most of these vehicles were broken up.

However, an opportunity was recognised to repurpose the chassis of some H Vans which were at that time awaiting their fate. By simply removing the wooden body and retaining portions of the brackets at either end to act as stanchions, CIÉ’s Permanent Way Department took charge of a small number of flat wagons to supplement and replace older types.

Quite likely a stop-gap measure until funding for fleet upgrades could be secured, these wagons remained in service for a further decade and found use carrying machinery, ballast and spoil in maintenance trains around the network.

The Model

A fully diecast floor makes up part of the underframe structure to allow the wagon to get some much needed weight in and assist with delivering excellent running characteristics. A wealth of separate plastic detail consisting of all the braking and underframe gear, stanchions, sprung buffers and brass bearing cups to allow the smoothest of running complete the make up of these beautifully detailed wagons.

Available in our typical triple packs, our first production run covers both the LB and PWD flats, Priced at €89.95 per triple pack, and 10% off when you buy two packs or more, they are due to arrive in stock in Q3 of 2024. Click the link below to place your pre-order. Pre-ordering early is recommended to avoid disappointment as production slots will be limited.

PRE-ORDER YOUR FLATS HERE!

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[jhb171achill]

Excellent news! Well done IRM - again!

[murphaph]

Yeah great news. I have ordered the flying snail ones. I must be doing something wrong because I don't ever seem to get the partially button. I just opted to pay by card. I also noticed that when you click on checkout pre-orders without opening up the list of pre-orders, it just emties your cart and you have to start again. This happened to me with the Bulleids too. After starting again I was careful to click the drop down arrow to display the pre-order list before clicking on "checkout pre-orders" and then it went to the checkout (but like I said, no partially option was visible there, only the CC option).

[Warbonnet]

Hi folks,

Some prototype inspiration should you need it!

Cheers!

Fran 

[Warbonnet]

8 minutes ago, murphaph said:

Yeah great news. I have ordered the flying snail ones. I must be doing something wrong because I don't ever seem to get the partially button. I just opted to pay by card. I also noticed that when you click on checkout pre-orders without opening up the list of pre-orders, it just emties your cart and you have to start again. This happened to me with the Bulleids too. After starting again I was careful to click the drop down arrow to display the pre-order list before clicking on "checkout pre-orders" and then it went to the checkout (but like I said, no partially option was visible there, only the CC option).

Hi Phil,

It appears at the cart stage for all orders over €100 as per below;

 

Cheers!

Fran 

[leslie10646]

Another one bites the dust!

Actually these look very nice and they're a RUW - a Really Useful Wagon. Stick a heap of ballast on it, or a few sleepers; but much more useful - a car, tractor, combine being delivered to the wilds of Ireland (I'm talking 1950s/60s here remember).

The photo above is the one which inspired my kit. Now, shall I put cars or Guinness tubs on it!

I'm off to order more tubs so that they're ready for Bangor - they'll go in the "Corrugateds" as well ........

Accepting the inevitable, order in!

 

[Westcorkrailway]

Is there any chance at all these wagons would have been used for car traffic? 

[leslie10646]

Yes, WCR, see photo above - but only in penny numbers.

I believe that the cars bilt in Cork went by flats based on old six wheel  coach chaassis?

[Westcorkrailway]

21 hours ago, leslie10646 said:

Yes, WCR, see photo above - but only in penny numbers.

I believe that the cars bilt in Cork went by flats based on old six wheel  coach chaassis?

From memory it was always 4 wheel flats. (Including some EX-GNR ones) but I have no idea if these more modern Bullied wagons ever were used on the Ford train. Needs more investigation 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Westcorkrailway

[leslie10646]

Ex-GNR flats: I haven't seen evidence of them used for cars, but I was toying with the idea of doing another run of these (ie a BR Flat with approximately the right lettering) to take my bread containers, beer tubs (or cars).

or

So, another good idea bites the dust!

[scahalane]

Flats with a load from the ford factory at Cork from the O'Dea collection.

[leslie10646]

Good man, Scahalane. That's crystal clear - I was wrong, or at least whoever told me was!

I'd ask Bosko for a free Pack as we can all see how to use them now!!!!

They'll be announcing the wee Ivatt Tank next week, followed by 00 Scale Fords (Anglias?).

The flats'll be sold out next week!

[DJ Dangerous]

These look lovely!

Am I right in saying that the Permanent Way variants ran in the eighties? So they'd be right at home with a Super Train 121 or A?

Are the plastic stanchions removable on the model, or fixed in place?

@leslie10646, will you be running more bread boxes and beer tubs to go with these?

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, scahalane said:

Flats with a load from the ford factory at Cork from the O'Dea collection.

Now THIS has me looking at the Oxford Diecast (1960s) cars website!

[John-r]

Fantastic looking wagons,well done IRM, will have to get some of these, but Leslie I think you started the ball rolling on a lot of Irish themed wagons and are to be highly congratulated on this, the lads know what I mean by this, congrats to all.

[iarnrod]

What period would the grey Flying Snail wagons have been used until? Was also wondering the same about the Bulleid Open wagons.

[DiveController]

8 hours ago, scahalane said:

Flats with a load from the ford factory at Cork from the O'Dea collection.

Wonder if someone could identify as many of the cats from right to left. the Anglia is obvious but I’m not so no so good on Zephyrs, Zodiacs, Prefects and Mk 1 Consuls etc 

Edited December 8, 2023 by DiveController

[Darius43]

The Anglias are recognisable from their distinctive radiator grilles (my Dad had one in the late ‘60s).   The others are Populars/Prefects and the larger 4-door Consuls.

I didn’t realise that the Cork factory was the first one that Ford opened outside the US.

Cheers

Darius

[DiveController]

30 minutes ago, Darius43 said:

The Anglias are recognisable from their distinctive radiator grilles (my Dad had one in the late ‘60s).   The others are Populars/Prefects and the larger 4-door Consuls.

I didn’t realise that the Cork factory was the first one that Ford opened outside the US.

Cheers

Darius

It was the last one to bear the name Henry Ford & Son Ltd. rather than Ford Motor Corporation 

Edited December 8, 2023 by DiveController

[leslie10646]

8 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

@leslie10646, will you be running more bread boxes and beer tubs to go with these?

I have bread in stock, but un painted - transfers for six different bakeries. That said, these flats would not have carried them.

Beer tubs - in stock, unpainted. I'll try and get some done for Bangor etc

[Westcorkrailway]

 

 

 

 

most of my photos of the ford cork operation are not digitised. These are a few more shots of the area. I’m sure many people get a taste on what ran on these trains.. ivatt shunter 201, 207 or 208 was often down here as were J26 Ex MGWR locomotives. The bandon peckett 495 was purchased by the GSR for cork city railway use. Though more for the tight curves of some sections. Arigdeen, St mologa, 100 and 90 ect would have also run on this train. As you can see above even the original E401 class ran in the cork city railway. 

Some cars would go down the bandon system, but most of them headed across the rest of the city railway to Kent station. And up the mainline. Ford traffic continued after the fall of the west cork railway. 1966 is reported to be the last time a ford car went to Kent via the cork city railway/Albert Quay but by this stage, cars were taken over to Penrose quay and loaded from there (likely the case in the 4th photo)

 

One night the ford train was left in Albert quay. All the hubcaps were stolen and from that time all the hubcaps were locked in the cars overnight 

 

something worth noting that ford were seriously considering opening a factory in Ballinascarthy. much much bigger then then one in Cork. Locals blocked it though. I often ponder how that factory could have saved the West Cork railway! 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Westcorkrailway

[Westcorkrailway]

12 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

Now THIS has me looking at the Oxford Diecast (1960s) cars website!

I’m one step ahead of you there JB. A certain man who worked for Fords down here donated these. Two zephers and a 100e anglia….maybe a very small 3 car rake is in order….

[jhb171achill]

10 hours ago, iarnrod said:

What period would the grey Flying Snail wagons have been used until? Was also wondering the same about the Bulleid Open wagons.

The “snail” era was up to 1963 but many, many wagons of this type wouldn’t have had a repaint until long after that.

All wagons were grey then and well into the “roundel” era. The “broken wheel” roundel started appearing in 1963, and the brown livery after 1970, by which time the “black’n’tan” era was in its end days!

8 hours ago, DiveController said:

 

12 hours ago, DJ Dangerous said:

Am I right in saying that the Permanent Way variants ran in the eighties? So they'd be right at home with a Super Train 121 or A?

With the “supertrain” livery first appearing in 1972, they’re fine for that purpose on a 1970s layout as well!

Edited December 8, 2023 by jhb171achill

[jhb171achill]

4 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 

 

 

1.  The view of E429 - where exactly is that?

2.  "....linked to the old Cork & Blackrock railway..."   - No! While it's close to where the original broad gauge City Quay terminus of the BROAD gauge Cork, Blackrock & Passage line was, it was never "linked" to it; what I suspect they mean is that it's linked to the former Cork and BANDON railway line.

Newspapers, eh...........!

[Westcorkrailway]

8 minutes ago, jhb171achill said:

1.  The view of E429 - where exactly is that?

2.  "....linked to the old Cork & Blackrock railway..."   - No! While it's close to where the original broad gauge City Quay terminus of the BROAD gauge Cork, Blackrock & Passage line was, it was never "linked" to it; what I suspect they mean is that it's linked to the former Cork and BANDON railway line.

Newspapers, eh...........!

I think it’s Cork. The church in the backround way high up on the hill would make me think so. The E’s did not last long on lee side as Tom Ryan said

 

2.Yeah I should have cropped that Blackrock bit out!

 

[DiveController]

7 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

 

 

 

 

most of my photos of the ford cork operation are not digitised. These are a few more shots of the area. I’m sure many people get a taste on what ran on these trains.. ivatt shunter 201, 207 or 208 was often down here as were J26 Ex MGWR locomotives. The bandon peckett 495 was purchased by the GSR for cork city railway use. Though more for the tight curves of some sections. Arigdeen, St mologa, 100 and 90 ect would have also run on this train. As you can see above even the original E401 class ran in the cork city railway. 

Some cars would go down the bandon system, but most of them headed across the rest of the city railway to Kent station. And up the mainline. Ford traffic continued after the fall of the west cork railway. 1966 is reported to be the last time a ford car went to Kent via the cork city railway/Albert Quay but by this stage, cars were taken over to Penrose quay and loaded from there (likely the case in the 4th photo)

 

One night the ford train was left in Albert quay. All the hubcaps were stolen and from that time all the hubcaps were locked in the cars overnight 

 

something worth noting that ford were seriously considering opening a factory in Ballinascarthy. much much bigger then then one in Cork. Locals blocked it though. I often ponder how that factory could have saved the West Cork railway! 

Are you able to date these for me? (year)

5 hours ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I’m one step ahead of you there JB. A certain man who worked for Fords down here donated these. Two zephers and a 100e anglia….maybe a very small 3 car rake is in order….

Alright, you're 1/3 of a step ahead as I don't have the red Anglia lol

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

1.  The view of E429 - where exactly is that?

2.  "....linked to the old Cork & Blackrock railway..."   - No! While it's close to where the original broad gauge City Quay terminus of the BROAD gauge Cork, Blackrock & Passage line was, it was never "linked" to it; what I suspect they mean is that it's linked to the former Cork and BANDON railway line.

Newspapers, eh...........!

It's outside of Kent Station on the south side, Horgan's Quay. Rails from Cork Yard extended over the Quay road to 2 or three sidings right one the waters edge.

If you go to Google Earth, find Kent go south to the key there a big excavator sitting on the rails

Edited December 8, 2023 by DiveController

[Westcorkrailway]

Just now, DiveController said:

Are you able to date these for me? (year)

The first arial photo was from 1937, the 2nd with the silver E shunter is July 1959. The third photo is sometimes in the late 60s to early 70s and the final photo is also 1937. 

[jhb171achill]

Got me flats ordered now anyway!

 

[scahalane]

2 hours ago, DiveController said:

It's outside of Kent Station on the south side, Horgan's Quay. Rails from Cork Yard extended over the Quay road to 2 or three siding right one the waters edge.

If you go go Google find Kent go south to the key there a big excavator sitting on the rails

Its actually inside the wall of Kent Station and not on the Quay. All tracks along the Quay did not sit proud of the road. The wall in the background is part of the old coaling bunker that was later knocked to make way for the Water street container embankment and after that the cement silo.

[Westcorkrailway]

Just now, scahalane said:

Its actually inside the wall of Kent Station and not on the Quay. All tracks along the Quay did not sit proud of the road. The wall in the background is part of the old coaling bunker that was later knocked to make way for the Water street container embankment and after that the cement silo.

 

Above is a joe st ledger film from the IRRS archive posted online by Ciaran cooney. Looks like E429 did make it to the waters edge! But I think your location is correct @scahalane

[jhb171achill]

Fascinating stuff, folks - thanks!

[DiveController]

On 8/12/2023 at 11:05 AM, scahalane said:

Its actually inside the wall of Kent Station and not on the Quay. All tracks along the Quay did not sit proud of the road. The wall in the background is part of the old coaling bunker that was later knocked to make way for the Water street container embankment and after that the cement silo.

Quite right Its inside the wall rather than outside which would have been flush to the asphalt

On 8/12/2023 at 11:09 AM, Westcorkrailway said:

 

Above is a joe st ledger film from the IRRS archive posted online by Ciaran cooney. Looks like E429 did make it to the waters edge! But I think your location is correct @scahalane

Yes indeed this is the location I was thinking of but scahalane having modeled this area extensively is quite correct on the previous photo location

Edited December 10, 2023 by DiveController

[DiveController]

On 8/12/2023 at 4:27 AM, Westcorkrailway said:

 

 

Can anyone GSR era identify the vehicles here, Ford Model 78? well before my time for sure

Edited December 10, 2023 by DiveController

[Westcorkrailway]

2 hours ago, DiveController said:

Can anyone GSR era identify this vehicles here Ford Model 78? well before my time for sure

Another GSR Era photograph. This one from 1929 (see the much older cars) on the wagons on the left)

I have pre-ordered 3 flat wagons I hope to mix in some other 4w flats such as 2 generic CIE flats made from British ones and maybe one of the GNR ones Leslie had if they can be found.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Westcorkrailway said:

I have pre-ordered 3 flat wagons I hope to mix in some other 4w flats such as 2 generic CIE flats made from British ones and maybe one of the GNR ones Leslie had if they can be found.

You wouldn't have got GNR ones down in Cork........