GNR V Class from Hornby Compound

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

I'm new on here and this is my first post so do let me know if it is the correct category.

I am building some steam locomotives for a friend of mine in Sligo as he doesn't have many Irish outline models, so far his only Irish locomotive is a Silver Fox C Class diesel I built for him a couple of years ago.

After looking at various photographs and finding some drawings here and there on line, this site included I decided to build him a GNR V class, a NCC W class and a NCC WT class. All three are from Hornby models that are being variously cut and shut to make them more accurate and while I'm at it sharing what I shall be doing should it be of any use to those on this site.

This thread will be for the GNR V class and I shall create threads for the other two locomotive types soon enough so do look out for them also.

The basis for this conversion is the Hornby Midland Compound which as far as it goes is very close in leading dimension and looks except that the boiler is too small and the cab is not as deep front to back. Having had a look at the drawing I found on line, I figured that the boiler from a Hornby LMS Patriot was about the right diameter and decided that splicing that onto the compound and altering the running boards that would be fairly close.

The boiler was cut off and set to one side as it was to be used for the W class. The cuts being directly behind the smokebox, along the firebox 5mm above the running boards and around the line where the splashers meet the boiler barrel and also cutting down the front of the cab spectacle plate.

The running boards were then cut where there is the small joggle by the leading splasher by cutting the splasher from the running board with a razor saw horizontally. The buffer beam was then cut from the forward section of the running board and the lug with the thread insert was cut out from under the smoke box. The smoke box saddle was trimmed for height at the level of the rectangular boxes at sides and then the running boards were glued rear section so that they are in a straight line.

Once all that was cured I refitted the lug with the threaded insert back onto the chassis and filled it so that the cab and running boards sat level and parallel to the rails and glued it into place I also fitted a piece of .040" plasticard over the top of it to reinforce the lug.

The Patriot boiler was cut either side of the boiler band just ahead of the dome, I did this to get a cut square tot he axis of the boiler and then glued that back together. This reduced the distance form the chimney to the dome to pretty much the correct dimension. I then cut section out of the smoke box just ahead of the chimney so that when replaced the smoke box measured 18mm. The firebox was cut off just ahead of the boiler band and the rear section was shortened so that the distance between the front edge of the fire box and the rear of the smoke box measured 44mm. The fire box is pretty much the correct length along with the rest of the boiler and so far I have left it alone until I see how the modified cab will line up.

Gibbo.

[Gabhal Luimnigh]

Welcome and keep posting please, I'm in Sligo too

[Dunluce Castle]

Wellcome Gibbo, looking forward to seeing this progress! 

[gibbo675]

9 hours ago, Gabhal Luimnigh said:

Welcome and keep posting please, I'm in Sligo too

 

9 hours ago, Dunluce Castle said:

Wellcome Gibbo, looking forward to seeing this progress! 

Cheers Chaps,

Thanks for the welcome,

I'm new to Irish railways, with lots to learn. I'm more of a West Coast Main Line circa 1974 being originally from Lancashire, I can remember the changing of diesels to electric locomotives at Preston and. What I do like like is a good cut and shut though as it is a good way of creating both something quite different and also what is generally unavailable.

I have various ideas for cut and shut coaches which I shall get on with once the locomotives are complete.

Gibbo.

Gibbo.

[DJ Dangerous]

Welcome to the forum, @gibbo675!

Top notch opening post!

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

I've been busy today the boiler has now been fitted to the V class along with the refitting of the buffer beam and the addition of the main frames under the smokebox.

The first job was to refit the buffer beam I had cut the original off vertically along with the deep valance which in retrospect wasn't the best way to do things I perhaps should have just cut buffer beam itself off leaving the deep valance. No matter it has all worked out well enough. I glued a piece of .040"plasticard 8.5mm X 25mm under the running plates and to the front of the frames that go over the wheels. I then cut the buffer beam from the running plate valance. The latter was glued into place and the buffer beam itself was packed out with .030" pieces to provide a flat surface. The buffer beam was then glued onto the under side of the valance with a 2.5mm gap, I compared the height to the tender as reference. The gap was later filled with a 2.5mm piece of .060" plasticard. 

The 8.5mm X 25mm piece, it is not full width so that the buffer beam does not look too thick.

The buffer beam glued into place next to the tender.

The boiler was the next job with locating flitches glued onto the inner sides of the firebox, these were .030" 25mmX 15mm projecting down 10mm. The lower corners were cut back to clear the wheels. To the outer side of the flitches I glued a strip 2.5mm long to space the boiler height wise on top of the piece that was left between the splashers. Most conveniently the dimension between the slashers and the inner sides of the fire box are the same so the flitch plates fit very snugly.

 

The spacers can be seen on the outer sides of the flitch plates.

I next fitted some .060" plates to the inner sides of the smoke box I had these projecting 3mm. In test fitting the boiler they required filing to about 2.25mm so that when they sat upon the plate over the holding screw boss then the boiler sat level.

The .060" smoke box saddle extensions.

When I was happy that the boiler was in the correct position I made some frame extensions to sit atop the running plates I made these form 5mm strips of .030" plasticard and glued them in place. I filed down the appropriate height under where the smoke box sits and this turns out to be 3.5mm. Once the look was correct in regard to the boiler's placement I then cut and filed the shape into the frames before fitting the boiler.

The frame extensions before cutting and filing to shape.

The boiler fitted and glued into place. The chimney and dome have since been cut down and refitted so that the locomotive looks a little less tall.

As you may see there is quite a gap between the cab and the firebox, this is the next job.

 

Gibbo.

[Flying Snail]

I'm really enjoying your threads Gibbo. Inspiring stuff!

Welcome to the forum and keep it coming please. 

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

 

One thing I forgot to request is, does anyone have a drawing of the tender types trailed by the V class locomotives ?

As yet I haven't found one, the only detail I have is on the above locomotive drawing.

Gibbo.

1 minute ago, Flying Snail said:

I'm really enjoying your threads Gibbo. Inspiring stuff!

Welcome to the forum and keep it coming please. 

Hi Mr Snail,

Thanks for the compliments, I must tell you I don't usually model Irish subjects. My thing is the West Coast Main Line in Lancashire England circa 1974. so If you want more then you will have to put up with my usual rubbish.....British Rubbish though !

Gibbo.

[Flying Snail]

9 minutes ago, gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

 

One thing I forgot to request is, does anyone have a drawing of the tender types trailed by the V class locomotives ?

As yet I haven't found one, the only detail I have is on the above locomotive drawing.

Gibbo.

Hi Mr Snail,

Thanks for the compliments, I must tell you I don't usually model Irish subjects. My thing is the West Coast Main Line in Lancashire England circa 1974. so If you want more then you will have to put up with my usual rubbish.....British Rubbish though !

Gibbo.

I've a fondness for the LNWR,  so if you had said the West Coast Main Line circa 1894 ...

But seriously, there's a few members doing a bit of BR modelling on here - @Darius43 springs to mind as someone whose threads you should check out.

[Patrick Davey]

Mighty work - keep the posts coming!

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

You asked for it Patrick Davey, here it is !

I've been busy with the V class again, it has been cab and splashers today, The first job was cut the cab roof off just under the top of the D cutout of the cab side. There were two extensions to make the first was a 2mm deep shim that was glued onto the underside of the cut off cab roof and the second was a 1mm thick piece glued onto the front edge to make up where there would other wise be a gap to the spectacle plate. The shims along the undersides of the the cab roof were four pieces, two each side of .040" plasticard measuring  2mm X 22mm. The second was marked out by drawing around the cab roof stood on its end, the piece cut oversize so that it could be filed flush once cured.

The shimmed up cab roof ready to be refitted into its new higher position.

I then fitted a piece of .040" plasticard measuring 31mm X 25mm, when cured I fitted the cab roof butting it up and making sure that it was centrally placed. Once cured the spectacle plate is trimmed and filed flush to match the profile of the cab roof.

The spectacle plate after being filed flush to the profile of the cab roof.

The cab sides were cut from .040" measuring 31mm X 28mm I cut out to fit over the step in the running plate and also cut out a relief over the splasher. These are glued on and when cured the front edges around the spectacle plate and splasher may be trimmed back and filed flush.

Cab side blanks one with the extra relief over the splasher, they were both reduce before fitting.

The cab sides with the side sticking proud and also the front edge and splasher prior to shaping.

I then cut out a piece of .030" for the cab roof this measured 30mm X 34mm. The 34mm dimension is over the width of the cab and once formed to ease fitting it will require trimming to finally fit it in between the cab side which will be sticking up slightly. Glue the cab roof on and once cured file the front flush with the spectacle plate, round the top of the cab sides to blend into the roof profile and trim the rear edge back to the original cab roof underneath.

The cab roof may then be trimmed and filed to shape and the D cut outs and spectacle plate windows cut and filed to shape. I had a slight problem in that the shims should have been slightly longer and I had to make up some fill in pieces from .060" plasticard.

This shews the bit that needed an extra piece, alternatively the shims could be made longer.

The leading splashers also had a .040" piece of plasticard glued to their outer face to match the new width of the cab. Incidentally, the now wider cab better matches the somewhat chunky Hornby version of the Fowler tender which is rather more in keeping with the tenders trailed by the V class. I have been looking at the, "Irish steam locomotive tenders" by Colin R thread and have also had a most useful drawing sent by Flying Snail.

The last structural job was to file down the cylinders by 1mm each side so that I could put a wrap made from 5/16" Plastruct tube around the the cylinders to beef them up, the Hornby ones looking a little slim. The Plastruct tube is 12mm long has a 5mm slot cut into it to allow it to slide over the mounting bracket.

This photograph shows that measuring from the cylinder relief valve to the outside the dimension needs to be reduced by 1mm while keeping the round profile.

The last job was to bog everything up with filler especially the gaps around the fire box so that it may be carved and sanded to shape once dried hard.

Isn't filler great ?!?! Also shewing the enlarged cylinders.

 

Gibbo.

[David Holman]

Splendid stuff. Not sure whether it is a case of alchemy or witchcraft, but either way shows what can be done.

[Mayner]

Interesting stuff back in the day the Airfix (kit) and later the Hornby Schools was almost a standard donor for GNR V and Vs conversions apparently the boiler diameter and  coupled wheel base were close to the GNR locos or at least looked the part! 

[jhb171achill]

Very nicely done indeed!

[Patrick Davey]

Thanks for obliging!  Enjoying this thread @gibbo675 - you must have an 'Eagle' eye for detail (boom boom!)

[gibbo675]

4 hours ago, Patrick Davey said:

Thanks for obliging!  Enjoying this thread @gibbo675 - you must have an 'Eagle' eye for detail (boom boom!)

More a MAJICIAN, No. 85, Merlin. (arf arf !)

[gibbo675]

9 hours ago, David Holman said:

Splendid stuff. Not sure whether it is a case of alchemy or witchcraft, but either way shows what can be done.

Hi David,

Thoughts are articulated through the use of words, the use of words to describe what you wish for shews what is to be done to create you wishes. You are the creator in terms of subjective and objective realities, thus in a manner of speaking; "In the beginning are the words, and the words come from you, and the words are of you.".

All I do is cut up bits of plastic and stick them back together again. Granted the bits of plastic I have cut up and stuck back together recently do look very much like small GNR V class steam locomotive, however that is all I do. There are two others on my other two threads, a NCC W class and a NNC WT class, just the same carry on.

You could do it your self all you need is an eBay haul, some plasticard, glue, paints, transfers and some tools. You can follow my destuctions as shewn on this thread and then supply the rest yourself from within. Look and you will find it, it is called imagination, dust it off and away you will go.

I shall be doing some sketch drawing of all the pieces soon enough so that this thread will form a guide should you wish to build your own.

GET BUSY, ITS FUN AND ITS EASY [...ish] !!!

Gibbo.

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

As a diversion from normal service here is what happens when I acted upon my imagination.

I thought it up, thought some more and then built it. It is nearly as daft as I am.

Gibbo.

[David Holman]

1 hour ago, gibbo675 said:

Hi David,

Thoughts are articulated through the use of words, the use of words to describe what you wish for shews what is to be done to create you wishes. You are the creator in terms of subjective and objective realities, thus in a manner of speaking; "In the beginning are the words, and the words come from you, and the words are of you.".

All I do is cut up bits of plastic and stick them back together again. Granted the bits of plastic I have cut up and stuck back together recently do look very much like small GNR V class steam locomotive, however that is all I do. There are two others on my other two threads, a NCC W class and a NNC WT class, just the same carry on.

You could do it your self all you need is an eBay haul, some plasticard, glue, paints, transfers and some tools. You can follow my destuctions as shewn on this thread and then supply the rest yourself from within. Look and you will find it, it is called imagination, dust it off and away you will go.

I shall be doing some sketch drawing of all the pieces soon enough so that this thread will form a guide should you wish to build your own.

GET BUSY, ITS FUN AND ITS EASY [...ish] !!!

Gibbo.

Agreed, though if you checkout my workshop thread, you'll see I've been scratchbuilding in 7mm scale, 36.75mm and 21mm gauge for many years.

 Love seeing other folks creativity, so great to see what you are up to.

Edited June 25 by David Holman

[Galteemore]

2 hours ago, gibbo675 said:

Hi David,

Thoughts are articulated through the use of words, the use of words to describe what you wish for shews what is to be done to create you wishes. You are the creator in terms of subjective and objective realities, thus in a manner of speaking; "In the beginning are the words, and the words come from you, and the words are of you.".

All I do is cut up bits of plastic and stick them back together again. Granted the bits of plastic I have cut up and stuck back together recently do look very much like small GNR V class steam locomotive, however that is all I do. There are two others on my other two threads, a NCC W class and a NNC WT class, just the same carry on.

You could do it your self all you need is an eBay haul, some plasticard, glue, paints, transfers and some tools. You can follow my destuctions as shewn on this thread and then supply the rest yourself from within. Look and you will find it, it is called imagination, dust it off and away you will go.

I shall be doing some sketch drawing of all the pieces soon enough so that this thread will form a guide should you wish to build your own.

GET BUSY, ITS FUN AND ITS EASY [...ish] !!!

Gibbo.

Never thought I’d hear John’s Gospel paraphrased into modelling ! Agree with the philosophy BTW, esp when so well demonstrated 

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

I have had a drawing sent by @Killian Keane via the Irish Steam Locomotive Tender thread that will assist me in building a far more accurate tender than what I may have achieved by way of scaling from photographs.

Thanks for the drawing,

Gibbo.

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

Todays job was to shorten the tender chassis to make it a more appropriate length.

The frames have been adapted to fit a standard Hornby motor unit and as such the wheel base is 48mm equally split, which scales at 6'-6' instead of 6'6"-6'6" as it should be 52mm equally split. The front edge to the leading axle centre is 3'6" and as such should be 14mm, the model being 17mm and the rear end to the trailing axle should be 2' 11" which for the sake of rounding up should be 12mm.

I decided that the extra 3mm at the front would up to a point balance the 4mm missing between the wheels and left it alone also that the engine to tender coupling is in this area which would make electrical connection difficult. The fixed wheel base is precisely that, fixed and was left alone.

This left the rear of the tender be dealt with. The first cut was immediately behind the rearmost spring link and then buffer beam-drag box area was removed by cutting above where the mounting clip is situated.

There is a slight projection over the top of the mounting clip which I cut off and then later filed flat unlike is shewn above, freshly cut.

I then cut away the tension lock hook attachments and filed the rear of the buffer beam flush. This was done so that the rear of the buffer beam could but up to the filed flat part above the mounting clip's location.

Ignore the groove, that was just before a hasty change of plan and will be later filled-oops!

The buffer beam and drag box was then offered up and scribed inline with the cuts immediately behind the spring links and the frames cut through and the lower part of the step removed. These edges were then offered up again and filed to fit so that both sides and the centre section above the mounting clip all engaged and that the whole assembly was both square and parallel. once this was achieved the sections were super glued together.

Before reassembling the motor unit into the frames I filed the tapered lug at the end of the motor unit so that it would not put undue stress on the  plastic structure when clipping it into place, this has not affected its ability to correctly locate but thought it necessary.

The last job was to cut the weight down as it would have been to large and over hung the rear buffer beam. To mark out where the cut was to be I loosely attached the fixing screw and marked the weight in line with the locating lugs. It may have been better if my junior hacksaw had a sharp blade and that I had a vice to hold the weight in, hence the rather jaunty angle.

My not brilliantly square cut, it does however fit.

The result is I now have a tender frameset that is only 1mm over scale length rather than about mm. I say about 6mm because I didn't measure the rear end of the tender before starting the job so I can't say for certain although the off cuts are 5.5mm plus the kerf of the razor saw, so near enough 6mm. The wheel base is fixed unless a totally different mechanism is used and I' pleased with the result.

The next job is to build the tender tank to the drawing supplied by Killian Kean. The only thing I'm unsure of is the tender bulkhead as I don't have a drawing of even photographs to work from.

Gibbo.

Edited June 27 by gibbo675
Spelling

[Metrovik]

Fair play to ya Gibbo, looking well. Says alot that the man has been on the forum for a few days and has already won the day 4 times.....

Edited June 27 by Metrovik

[gibbo675]

3 minutes ago, Metrovik said:

Fair play to ya Gibbo, looking well. Says alot that the man has been on the forum for a few days and has already won the day 4 times.....

I have to say I've been playing trains since 1973 when I received my cousins cast off Hornby Dublo Caledonian set for my first proper model train set, 46245 City of London and two Stanier tin plates, still got them.

I did have about 25 years out when I converted to 304.8mm to the foot scale when I rebuilt steam locomotives at Riley & Son's in Bury for a living

Just for you though, recently photographed but built in about 1988 or 36 years ago if you prefer.

In the background are a half built LMS 50ton Cravens Crane and the undergibbons (a Darius43 joke) of a BRCW class 27.

Gibbo.

[Horsetan]

On 25/6/2024 at 4:58 PM, gibbo675 said:

Hi Folks,

As a diversion from normal service here is what happens when I acted upon my imagination.

I thought it up, thought some more and then built it. It is nearly as daft as I am.

Gibbo.

As it happens, the Germans did plan to build a 2-6-8-0 Mallet. This was to have been built by Borsig of Berlin, and would have been the DRG's class 53⁰.

There is conflicting information as to whether construction ever went ahead; a couple of sources claim Borsig got as far as building the bare frames.

Whatever the truth of the matter, Märklin produced a model of the Class 53 in the 1970s, and continued producing it, on and off, over the following decades. It's quite a sight.

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

I've been building tenders again, this time for the V class.

The main body of the the tender is made up from .040" plasticard measuring 74mm X 20mm for the side and 31mm X 19mm for the ends. This was glued into a box with one end set in by 3.5mm. The tender chassis was altered slightly by cutting the width of the flange around the top of the frames down to 31mm. This was surprisingly simple as all that needs to be done is to set a steel rule against the lugs the locate the weights, scribe with a knife a few times and break it off carefully. Clean up with a file and nib the top edges of the buffer beams and it is about right.

The hole above the coupling pin requires filling in and the weight requires 2mm removing from the front edge, this had not been done in this photograph.

The top raves were then cut from two other pieces of .040" plasticard 74mm X 7mm and stuck on top of the box, with a piece 31mm X 4mm also .040" across the back. This was in some ways an oversight as I should have made the sides 27mm deep however as it worked out I think that it was easier to have to lower ends of the ends set in by 1mm from the bottom edge while getting the whole square. Once this was done I cut .010" overlays for the top part of the raves which covered the joint in any case so my slight oversight worked in my favour. 

On the inner edges of the tops of the raves I glued a piece of .040" 3mm X 60mm so as to form the slight radius that is required. two pieces of .040" were cut at 25mm X 7mm as plating for the tool boxes to be mounted upon. Very conveniently when the tender body is in position they sit atop the tender weight.

Framing around the base of the tank was made from a .040" strip 1.5mm wide making sure that it projects 5mm from the front edge of the tender. A strip of the same was glued to the top of the rear of the tank to form the flare. The rear platform of the tank and bunker bulkhead were cut from .040" at 31mm X 18 and 31mm X 7mm respectively with the bulkhead being notched to fit around the 3mm strip at the top of the raves. The bulk head is positioned 12mm back from the outer edge of the tank.

There will have to be a lot of coal in this tender to cover up the motor !

Gibbo.

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

More tenderage, is there such a verb ?

Tender footstep and tools boxes, the footstep is made from four layers of .030" plasticard cut 5mm wide to fit between the sides of the tender and the lower part is .030" cut to 8mm wide to fit between the framing notched for the tender sides. The tools boxes are made from five 4mm wide strips cut to 12mm long with a radius filed on the top.

This shews the flare on the back of the tender after carving scraping a filing the shape to it and also the curve to the top of the tender raves. The filler cap is made from a piece of .25" Plastruct tube 2mm long capped with a 7mm diameter piece of .020" plasticard. The lower framing has been joined by a piece of .030" strip that was cut back and filed to fit flush with the buffer beam.

Gibbo.

[Metrovik]

Your work is simply inspiring me Gibbo, literally! I just need to find a suitable conversion...

[gibbo675]

1 hour ago, Metrovik said:

Your work is simply inspiring me Gibbo, literally! I just need to find a suitable conversion...

Mr Metrovick,

That's good to know and I'm pleased you feel that you could build something.

What is your main interest and time period ? My next projects will be some GNRI coaches from Hornby Stanier coaches. I've made a start on the composite coach although it will be a bit of a cheat with three first and four thirds instead of four firsts and three third compartments. Lots of cutting and shutting action for the brake coaches and open thirds when I get around to them. though.

Gibbo.

[Metrovik]

40 minutes ago, gibbo675 said:

Mr Metrovick,

That's good to know and I'm pleased you feel that you could build something.

What is your main interest and time period ? My next projects will be some GNRI coaches from Hornby Stanier coaches. I've made a start on the composite coach although it will be a bit of a cheat with three first and four thirds instead of four firsts and three third compartments. Lots of cutting and shutting action for the brake coaches and open thirds when I get around to them. though.

Gibbo.

Id probably go for something more southern myself. Mabye try and start with a few wagons and build up to a tank engine? Just enough for a sleepy GSR/CIE branchline.

As for the coaches, personally I wouldn't notice but maybe that's half the problem.......

Edited July 4 by Metrovik
Typo.

[Westcorkrailway]

I suggest you look in this thread for some inspiration @Metrovik

 

[gibbo675]

Hi Folks,

I have covered up the motor in the tender with a plasticard frame covered with Humbrol filler. Easy application of filler as it didn't need smoothing out of sanding down afterwards.

The broad strip down the middle is from .020" plasticard and the lattice strips are of the same, the gaps will assist the filler to adhere.

Filler applied and left to harden, in time it will be painted black and have some coal glued to it.

Gibbo.

[Patrick Davey]

Tenderage........how about tenderness?

 

[gibbo675]

23 minutes ago, Patrick Davey said:

Tenderage........how about tenderness?

 

No good, its already a known verb !

[gibbo675]

Yo Dudes,

It has been coaches today, they are described on my workbench thread called, "What is now on the bench was recently a figment of imagination";

A Dublin to Belfast express headed by a GNRI V class compound leans into the curve on the 4' 1.5" gauge concrete sleepered track with is GNRI coaches in tow. It was all going to fast for the painters to catch it !

Gibbo.