"Voiding the Warranty" - Mol's experiments in 21mm gauge

[jhb171achill]

10 hours ago, Galteemore said:

Make sure @jhb171achill sees that GWR livery. He loves faithful livery interpretations like that 

Jayyyysus…..

[jhb171achill]

10 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I did think it was an unusual shade of mid chrome green!

Also, for a railway where the locos were highly standardised, this somehow combines a load of standard features into something that looks completely wrong!

I’m having nightmares about this contraption, and I haven’t even gone asleep yet.

It’s the equivalent of a dinner of blacmange, cabbage, marmite, fish, marmalade, calamari, strong coffee, gorgonzola cheese, germolene and chillies, all mixed up, only worse.

In its defence, it’s live steam. Otherwise it would be at best immoral…..

Edited April 7 by jhb171achill

[Mol_PMB]

A couple of hours machining after work and I have got this far with my jig. There are some more operations to do yet, hopefully tomorrow. 

The large block will be slotted 1/8” wide so the axle is a snug fit. The smaller blocks will be slotted 1/16” wide so the squares are a snug fit. 
The idea is that the axle parts can be set up in the tool and then pressed together by squeezing in a clamp. 

[Mayner]

15 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I did think it was an unusual shade of mid chrome green!

Also, for a railway where the locos were highly standardised, this somehow combines a load of standard features into something that looks completely wrong!

I rember the late Peter Jarvis (Festiniog Volunteer and Milton Keynes Model Railway Club member) commenting that miniature locomotives broke down into two types freelance 0-4-0s that tended to be good steamers and strong pullers and scale models of large standard gauge locos (2-10-0s and Pacifics) which were poor steamers and couldn't pull the skin of a rice pudding. This "GWR" 2-6-0T seems to come somewhere in between though being coal fired should take skill to drive.

One of the big surprises when I moved to New Zealand was that most medium /large towns had an active Model Engineering Club with a workshop and running track usually dual 5" & 7½"  gauge in a local public park. The other big surprise was that much of the equipment was rtr with many owners operating a 'standard" American outline narrow gauge 2-6-0 locomotive (7½") manufactured by a local firm.

[Mol_PMB]

Steps in machining the jig.

Using a 4mm slot drill, make a rebate 10mm x 8mm x 3.5mm deep in the middle. This will locate the sleeve if an oversize sleeve is used:

Using a 2mm slot drill, create a slot 3.2mm wide and 3mm deep to take the axle:

Clamp the moving blocks into position. I had a 1.5mm end mill which was the only suitable tool for the next stage:

Cut slots 1.5mm wide and 2.5mm deep in the moving blocks:

Then in tiny increments, widen the slot each side until the square end of the axles will just fit into it:

Once I've had a brew I think I'll drill and tap 4 holes in the top face of the main block to assist in holding the axle parts in the slots during the axle assembly operation.

[Tullygrainey]

Some very fine engineering going on here Paul. Once made, I imagine it will be endlessly useful in the future making all the effort worthwhile. 

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, Tullygrainey said:

Some very fine engineering going on here Paul. Once made, I imagine it will be endlessly useful in the future making all the effort worthwhile. 

Thanks! It's finished now. This photo shows an EM axle (not yet cut in half) and how it sits in the slot:

The axle can be held in place with the straps secured by 6BA bolts. This photo also shows how the square end fits in the slot of the smaller moving blocks. This allows the parts to be pressed together while ensuring that they remain square. The width of the central block also sets the back-to-back.

It has taken a full day's work so I hope I use it more than once or twice!

But I do like making things, and whether it's a model or a jig there's a lot of satisfaction in producing something that works. I'm sure you find the same.

 

As well as the J26 I have kits for the G2 and J15 in the stash.

I seem to have a total of 10 EM gauge axles of this type (i.e. 1 spare for those 3 locos). I also have some spare axle nuts and 'deluxe' crankpins. I'm wondering whether to try and stock up some more before they vanish for ever.

Now, are there any other Irish steam locos I might want to build in future? They would probably have to be scratchbuilt probably with a custom etch. Answers on a postcard... 

 

[Rob R]

Somewhere up in the loft I have a selection of Rumfit "OO and EM" axles if you need any more.

If you are really desperate I also have some S scale axles which will need shortening............

R

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, Rob R said:

Somewhere up in the loft I have a selection of Rumfit "OO and EM" axles if you need any more.

If you are really desperate I also have some S scale axles which will need shortening............

R

Thanks Rob, that's good to know you have an emergency stash!

 

Whilst tidying up the machine shop (shed) after making my jig, one of my wall decorations out there has reminded me that I still have some more diesels awaiting attention too..

I acquired this in an ITG fundraising drive a couple of decades ago - I think the money went toward saving 124.

[Westcorkrailway]

25 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

Thanks Rob, that's good to know you have an emergency stash!

 

Whilst tidying up the machine shop (shed) after making my jig, one of my wall decorations out there has reminded me that I still have some more diesels awaiting attention too..

I acquired this in an ITG fundraising drive a couple of decades ago - I think the money went toward saving 124.

The way they don’t the decals is funny looking. It appears they painted around 131, and painted over a previous 131 decal 

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, Westcorkrailway said:

The way they don’t the decals is funny looking. It appears they painted around 131, and painted over a previous 131 decal 

At least the numbers are all the same size and in line. Not all were so neat - I photographed these mismatched ones back in the day. Prototype for everything!

 

[skinner75]

I got one of those panels too through the same ITG auction! 

The number on mine is all kinds of wonky!! 

[WRENNEIRE]

Picked up this one some years back

[Westcorkrailway]

9 minutes ago, WRENNEIRE said:

Picked up this one some years back

I thought 127s cab was supposed to be still among the land of the living! Very nice 

6105s door 

[Tullygrainey]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

I seem to have a total of 10 EM gauge axles of this type (i.e. 1 spare for those 3 locos). I also have some spare axle nuts and 'deluxe' crankpins. I'm wondering whether to try and stock up some more before they vanish for ever.

 

I notice that ScaleLink, who produce Markit/Romford-type wheels only sell crankpins if you also buy their wheels.

https://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Locomotive_Driving_Wheels_.html

 

[Horsetan]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

...., are there any other Irish steam locos I might want to build in future? They would probably have to be scratchbuilt probably with a custom etch. Answers on a postcard... 

How long have you got?

[Mol_PMB]

Just now, Tullygrainey said:

I notice that ScaleLink, who produce Markit/Romford-type wheels only sell crankpins if you also buy their wheels.

https://www.scalelink.co.uk/acatalog/Locomotive_Driving_Wheels_.html

 

Indeed, and the same with axles. I think they are eking out their remaining supply now that Markits is defunct.

Another source of this type is 3mm scale models, they list the EM axles. I got my J26 wheelsets from them. They only have smaller wheels though.

https://www.3smr.co.uk/wheelstock.html

I'm going to see if I can stock up for a couple of potential future projects. Now, what are the chances of the shrink-ray being pointed at the Alphagraphix Ivatt F6?

[Mol_PMB]

2 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

How long have you got?

With the J26, J15 and G2 kits I've already got a shunter and both freight and passenger tender locos. The G2 doesn't fit my region but they're nice locos and worked a few railtours.

I'm mostly focused on Cork and Kerry around 1960, which limits the options a lot. The F6 2-4-2Ts were withdrawn a fraction early for me, apart from the Inchicore pilot which is geographically wrong. I do like them but there's an Alphagraphix kit which could be shrunk, so no point me working on one of those. The 4-4-2Ts went even earlier. The last surviving Ivatt 0-6-0T, 201, would definitely fit the bill, but rather duplicates the J26. The J30 is another Alphagraphix kit with potential to be shrunk. The Bandon tank is already available from SSM, but geographically more limited than the GSWR classes. Hmm, I've probably got enough things in the stash already.

[Westcorkrailway]

By the time your modelling, most steam locos had been withdrawn and extensive deisalisation had taken place leading to the displacement of the likes of the F6.
 

Virtually all verity in classes had been wiped out in the late 1950s, leaving All that was left of steam in Cork  by the turn of the decade was the Bandon Tanks, J15s and J26s (with exceptions of course) Indeed it’s those classes that remained in Cork up to (and some claim beyond!) 1963. 

 

although it’s very hard to place a Bandon Tank in Mallow! They went to youghal and Cobh - but I’ve never seen them as a mallow pilot for instance. Although now I’m going to try and find evidence of it happening! 

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, Westcorkrailway said:

By the time your modelling, most steam locos had been withdrawn and extensive deisalisation had taken place leading to the displacement of the likes of the F6.
 

Virtually all verity in classes had been wiped out in the late 1950s, leaving All that was left of steam in Cork  by the turn of the decade was the Bandon Tanks, J15s and J26s (with exceptions of course) Indeed it’s those classes that remained in Cork up to (and some claim beyond!) 1963. 

 

although it’s very hard to place a Bandon Tank in Mallow! They went to youghal and Cobh - but I’ve never seen them as a mallow pilot for instance. Although now I’m going to try and find evidence of it happening! 

A withdrawn Bandon Tank was stored in Mallow for a while, but that doesn't really count. If you can find evidence of one working in Mallow or Kerry I'd be interested. An F6 would be more at home in Mallow or Kerry in earlier years.

 

[Horsetan]

53 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

..... The J30 is another Alphagraphix kit with potential to be shrunk. ...

I put my name down for one. Looks like I was the only one.

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, Horsetan said:

I put my name down for one. Looks like I was the only one.

And I think there was only one vote for the F6, though I could have my arm twisted to add a second vote.

Well, let's see how the MGWR coaches and loco turn out, maybe we can encourage some more people to bite?

[skinner75]

Here is the panel I got from that ITG auction - poor old 1 is a bit wonky!

[Mol_PMB]

39 minutes ago, skinner75 said:

Here is the panel I got from that ITG auction - poor old 1 is a bit wonky!

Seems like we’ve got a fair proportion of the class on this forum!

[Mol_PMB]

Some more progress on the J26 today; I’ve been working on the chassis and suspension. 
Firstly I prepared the High Level hornguides and hornblocks.

I did the CSB calcs, then marked and drilled the holes for the pivots.
Then I separated the main frames and cleaned them up. Also I prepared the frame stretchers, including modifying them with space for the CSB wire to pass through. 

Then I put the whole lot together, with a fair bit of fettling and fitting. I expect there will be some more needed when I try to fit wheelsets and coupling rods!

At present I’m just using some normal wire as a placeholder instead of the proper CSB springy wire. 

The next step will be to assemble the gearbox and motor, and make sure it fits.
I still need to find some time on my friend’s lathe to do the axle machining. 

[Tullygrainey]

That's lovely work Paul. Did you use a jig to position the horn guides?

I'm impressed by the space between the frames. So much easier to place things and get at stuff. I think I'll have to try this 21mm malarkey 

[Mol_PMB]

The horn guides have a tiny hole etched at the top for positioning.

I drilled matching holes in the side frames using the coupling rods as a jig. Then I used fine wire through the holes in the frames and hornguides to align the holes before soldering the hornguides in position.

At present, the hornguides are soldered only at the top, but there is still scope to slightly tweak the sides of them if needed to get free running. Also of course I can enlarge the hornguide clearance slightly if needed. (though that will increase the slop). Fingers crossed I can get it running smoothly!

When I did my E401 class I found that the extra width of 21mm gauge gave me options for suspension and gearboxes that would have been almost impossible to achieve in 16.5mm gauge. There are some benefits of wearing the hair shirt!

[Colonel]

Even more room in 7mm scale/36.75mm gauge!

[Horsetan]

18 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

.....I did the CSB calcs..... 

What did your CSB measurements come out as?