Making an ‘E’ – the Maybach Diesel Model Assembly thread

[exciecoachbuilder]

3 hours ago, Signal Post said:

I should clarify that my "funny" emoji reaction to your last post solely relates to the last line!

The rest of that post and indeed this thread is wonderfully informative and interesting, I never had a huge interest in the E401 class...until now. Now they are definitely on my bucket list.

Your work on building this model is truly amazing, from doing the artwork for the etches through to obtaining the etches and then onto construction has been wonderful to observe and all done at a pace that even @Darius43 of this parish (who appears to be the record holder for rapid and wonderful construction of models) would , I am sure, be proud of.

Thanks for all of this and keep it coming!

Have to agree, it really is wonderful to observe. Also, like you I never had an interest in E class shunters, but now I want one. It looks so good that it's almost a shame to paint it. 

[exciecoachbuilder]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Many thanks, you're too kind!

I decided to ask Colour-Rail for a better copy of the view of E402 in 1961 shown in Irish Railways Traction and Travel, 1994 edition, page 70, and they are going to scan it for me.

In the process we have also identified two other nice colour views in their collection, reference numbers IR637 and FIE02925. I'm ordering good copies of those for my personal use, but for info if you put those numbers into the 'reference' search box here:

https://colourrail.co.uk/nonuk

You will find that IR637 is mainly a colour view of D class 1000 in original dark green, plus the cab of silver E417. Dark green loco, eau-de-nil snail and E number in one shot, for the shades of green...

FIE02925 is a panoramic colour view of the goods yard at Albert Quay, with E403 shunting. The top of the footplate looks very dark, but then so does the roof!

 

Slightly tangential:

• FIE04522 is E413 in black, a very nice view shunting a green carriage
• FIE05083 and FIE05084 are at Fenit, with a silver shunter at work, but it's G602 rather than an E.

Top class info as usual. Now we have the three amigos, you, Jonathan and Mayner. Cheers. Paul

[Mol_PMB]

I'm just adding all the tabs to the chassis etch artwork. There is provision for rigid chassis, 1 axle rigid and the other two compensated (with hornguides), or all 3 axles with hornguides and CSB suspension. Also 16.5mm gauge or 21mm gauge.

This sheet will be 0.45mm brass rather than the 0.25mm nickel silver used for the body.

To fill some gaps, a couple of bonus items for the body on here: a radiator fan and mount, and a handrail bending jig for the sizes required. Neither really necessary but why not?

I have a little bit of space left over even on a small A5 sheet, no doubt I've forgotten something, but you never realise until it's too late!

If I don't think of anything else by tomorrow then I will fill it with various widths of strip - you can never have too many bits of brass strip!

[David Holman]

Impressive stuff!

[BSGSV]

I'm more familiar with mainline locos, but pipe colours would be blue for water and green for fuel oil, as you say. Air is yellow, electrical is brown. Hence the yellow air receivers. Exposed pipes might well lose their paint.

[Mol_PMB]

16 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Slightly tangential:

• FIE05083 and FIE05084 are at Fenit, with a silver shunter at work, but it's G602 rather than an E.

So, I mentioned a silver G and look what appeared!

https://flic.kr/p/2qMapPe

Lovely - thank you! 

The footplate on this appears to be silver, definitely not black. 

Edited February 17 by Mol_PMB
Added last line.

[Mol_PMB]

I think this is the final version of the chassis etch. I've added an extra geartrain option and a few spacer washers, also a mix of strips, angles and channels with no particular purpose in mind. As a scratchbuilder I know it's always more useful to have bits like this rather than blank bits of fret!

[Galteemore]

Wow. Fab work. The difference in size between 16.5mm and 21mm spacers is striking. And as a scratch builder too, spare strips and channels are always useful! 

[David Holman]

Agreed. It is one thing to make a drawing, because that only involves thinking in two dimensions. Kit design means thinking in three, which is a whole extra level of visualisation and ramps up the number of variables considerably!

[Mol_PMB]

4DModelshop sent me a free spare etch of the bonnet when I had the first body etch done. It looked like there had been some production issue that had damaged the rest of the sheet, but the top third of it was OK.

So today I thought I'd build another bonnet using the later radiator grille options, and also to illustrate a couple of minor modifications that I applied retrospectively on the first build.

This shows the later radiator grilles fitted. These are an option on the fret:

I'm waiting for a quote from Iain on the chassis etches, and my intention is to order 2 chassis etches and 1 more body etch, which ought to allow me to complete 2 locos and have a small stash of spare bits.

The first one I've built will be silver, representing E410 as it ran at Fenit.

The second one will be black, but I haven't quite decided on my preferred prototype. The logical one is E410 because it lasted the longest and didn't lose its exhaust cowl, and therefore the model can represent the mid 1960s to 1979 time period. But then I'll end up with two models of the same loco!

All the other locos still in traffic into the late 1970s had lost their exhaust cowls around 1975, so I'd be forced into a decision on pre- or post-1975 condition.

[Mol_PMB]

Last bit of progress today, I've had the quote from 4DModelshop for the next batch of etches, and paid for it. Should be ready next week.

Here's the new bonnet and the existing complete body:

Once the H vans arrive I can mock up a Bulleid train with the E class.

 

 

 

[jhb171achill]

That is absolutely top class. Love the scenic background too.

[Mol_PMB]

while there is a pause in construction as I await the next etch order, IRRS Flickr have uploaded a super photo of E418 brand new in July 1957:
https://flic.kr/p/2qNj1Yx

Thank you! 
 

Having done the green numbers for the silver livery, I have also been working on the decal artwork for the black livery - both the numbers and the white vees at each end. I’ve done artwork for two different shapes of vee as they weren’t all the same. 

[Mol_PMB]

My package of etches arrived yesterday from 4DModelshop, a week after placing the order. Work is very busy at present but I hope to have a chance to build a chassis this weekend. Here's the chassis etch:

[Mol_PMB]

I'm pleased to say that I have managed to make time for a good few hours of modelling today, and I've been focusing on the chassis for the E class.

Making up the High Level hornblocks and hornguides and getting them all to be a smooth fit was a time-consuming task, lots of fettling required as the parts supplied had some dimensional variations. I got there in the end though.

Main frame components ready for assembly:

Hornguides fitted and fettled (again) so the blocks all slide freely:

Once that was done, progress was much faster. Here are the main parts soldered together and checked for fit. I had to file a little off the ends as they clashed with my messy soldering of the vacuum pipes inside the bufferbeams, but otherwise it fits well:

CSB pivots and brake hanger rods fitted, nuts added to coupler mounting plates. Geartrain case completed and the hornblocks ready to fit:

Rough positioning of the QuaDriver motor and gearbox which drives the two closely-spaced axles at the front. The geartrain in the foreground connects to the third axle:

And finally for today, the gubbins tray which bolts in place above the motor. My intention is that this can be used to carry extra weight, and/or to mount decoder, stay-alives etc. There's plenty of room above it in the bonnet:

Hopefully at the weekend I can try fitting this all together with axles, gears, wheels, suspension and pickups. 

If that goes well it will be ready for a test-run, so I was delighted to hear that my 21mm gauge flexitrack bases went in the post today!

[MD220]

Lovely job!

[Horsetan]

44 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

... I was delighted to hear that my 21mm gauge flexitrack bases went in the post today!

Likewise. Need to acquire some FB Code 75 rail now....

[Tullygrainey]

17 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

I'm pleased to say that I have managed to make time for a good few hours of modelling today, and I've been focusing on the chassis for the E class.

Making up the High Level hornblocks and hornguides and getting them all to be a smooth fit was a time-consuming task, lots of fettling required as the parts supplied had some dimensional variations. I got there in the end though.

Main frame components ready for assembly:

Hornguides fitted and fettled (again) so the blocks all slide freely:

Once that was done, progress was much faster. Here are the main parts soldered together and checked for fit. I had to file a little off the ends as they clashed with my messy soldering of the vacuum pipes inside the bufferbeams, but otherwise it fits well:

CSB pivots and brake hanger rods fitted, nuts added to coupler mounting plates. Geartrain case completed and the hornblocks ready to fit:

Rough positioning of the QuaDriver motor and gearbox which drives the two closely-spaced axles at the front. The geartrain in the foreground connects to the third axle:

And finally for today, the gubbins tray which bolts in place above the motor. My intention is that this can be used to carry extra weight, and/or to mount decoder, stay-alives etc. There's plenty of room above it in the bonnet:

Hopefully at the weekend I can try fitting this all together with axles, gears, wheels, suspension and pickups. 

If that goes well it will be ready for a test-run, so I was delighted to hear that my 21mm gauge flexitrack bases went in the post today!

A really fine bit of work. You've built a chassis in less time than it usually takes me to identify all the bits on an etch! From the pics, you've clearly designed this one really well and it seems to have gone together without any drama.  That's no mean achievement. I like the gubbins tray - brilliant idea! That one's gone in the notebook for future deployment.

Good luck with the track tests. My guess is that this one will run as wells it looks.

Alan

[jhb171achill]

This just keeps getting better!

[Mol_PMB]

After a busy week I now have a long weekend and have made some more progress on the E.

I've trial-assembled the chassis and made some spacers, washers etc to keep everything in line.

Then I fitted the brake hangers and a representation of the cross-beams. Only the lower part of these is visible below the frames.

Finally I assembled the radiator fan. This doesn't actually turn but I don't think it would be too hard to do - I'll leave that as a challenge to someone else!

Then I dismantled everything, gave it a good clean and dry, masked off the hornguides, and all the parts have now had a coat of etch primer.

[exciecoachbuilder]

45 minutes ago, Mol_PMB said:

After a busy week I now have a long weekend and have made some more progress on the E.

I've trial-assembled the chassis and made some spacers, washers etc to keep everything in line.

Then I fitted the brake hangers and a representation of the cross-beams. Only the lower part of these is visible below the frames.

Finally I assembled the radiator fan. This doesn't actually turn but I don't think it would be too hard to do - I'll leave that as a challenge to someone else!

Then I dismantled everything, gave it a good clean and dry, masked off the hornguides, and all the parts have now had a coat of etch primer.

Oh yes, I'm loving this. I will look forward to seeing this running on the layout. Well done my man. 

[Mol_PMB]

Chassis painted and reassembled, test run with direct power and lightly lubricated with graphite:

Next step on this is the pickups, and then a proper track test. But first I'm going to paint the superstructure silver.

[Mol_PMB]

Well, it works. Testing on DC at the moment - I need to find or buy a suitable decoder before moving on to DCC.

As you can see, the gubbins tray is loaded with lead flashing, but there's space on top for a decoder.

The superstructure is all now painted silver too - I used Tamiya TS-17.

Testing on 21mm gauge flexitrack - the holy grail - thanks @Rob R

 

One thing I've been mulling over is lighting. These locos had built-in lights, 2 white and 1 red each end, but having studied about 150 photos of them, I haven't yet found one with any evidence of illumination or glow from the built-in lights. In use, they always carry an oil lamp instead. At present I can't see the point in fitting working lights, because it seems they were never used!

Has anyone got any evidence to convince me otherwise? If the lights were used it would be good to know which combinations of lights were illuminated.

 

[jhb171achill]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Well, it works. Testing on DC at the moment - I need to find or buy a suitable decoder before moving on to DCC.

As you can see, the gubbins tray is loaded with lead flashing, but there's space on top for a decoder.

The superstructure is all now painted silver too - I used Tamiya TS-17.

Testing on 21mm gauge flexitrack - the holy grail - thanks @Rob R

 

One thing I've been mulling over is lighting. These locos had built-in lights, 2 white and 1 red each end, but having studied about 150 photos of them, I haven't yet found one with any evidence of illumination or glow from the built-in lights. In use, they always carry an oil lamp instead. At present I can't see the point in fitting working lights, because it seems they were never used!

Has anyone got any evidence to convince me otherwise? If the lights were used it would be good to know which combinations of lights were illuminated.

Good thinking….. it’s something  I hadn’t thought of. No idea, but yes, those and the D’s did seem to often carry oil lamps….

[MD220]

18 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

Well, it works. Testing on DC at the moment - I need to find or buy a suitable decoder before moving on to DCC.

As you can see, the gubbins tray is loaded with lead flashing, but there's space on top for a decoder.

The superstructure is all now painted silver too - I used Tamiya TS-17.

Testing on 21mm gauge flexitrack - the holy grail - thanks @Rob R

 

One thing I've been mulling over is lighting. These locos had built-in lights, 2 white and 1 red each end, but having studied about 150 photos of them, I haven't yet found one with any evidence of illumination or glow from the built-in lights. In use, they always carry an oil lamp instead. At present I can't see the point in fitting working lights, because it seems they were never used!

Has anyone got any evidence to convince me otherwise? If the lights were used it would be good to know which combinations of lights were illuminated.

 

Traditionally, while shunting, a loco will show a white light and a red light at both ends. Otherwise, if travelling between two places it will show 2 white lights at the front end and one red at the rear.

While the lights on the 401s are relatively large I don't believe they are any more than marker lights and wouldn't project like a headlight would.

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, MD220 said:

Traditionally, while shunting, a loco will show a white light and a red light at both ends. Otherwise, if travelling between two places it will show 2 white lights at the front end and one red at the rear.

While the lights on the 401s are relatively large I don't believe they are any more than marker lights and wouldn't project like a headlight would.

Ah great, many thanks! Perhaps it's worth me adding some LEDs in there then, dialled right down in brightness.

[GSWR 90]

21 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

One thing I've been mulling over is lighting. These locos had built-in lights, 2 white and 1 red each end, but having studied about 150 photos of them, I haven't yet found one with any evidence of illumination or glow from the built-in lights. In use, they always carry an oil lamp instead. At present I can't see the point in fitting working lights, because it seems they were never used!

Has anyone got any evidence to convince me otherwise? If the lights were used it would be good to know which combinations of lights were illuminated.

 

E428's white marker lights are on at 1:11 in this video, and same with E432 at 1:29 in this one, but I appreciate you'd probably rather have evidence of the lights on while they were in CIÉ ownership

[Mol_PMB]

4 minutes ago, GSWR 90 said:

E428's white marker lights are on at 1:11 in this video, and same with E432 at 1:29 in this one, but I appreciate you'd probably rather have evidence of the lights on while they were in CIÉ ownership

Many thanks! So they do work. I'll get some 2mm LEDs ordered.

[Mol_PMB]

I'm getting there, and thought it was time for a trial assembly and photoshoot. It presently works on DC power and runs smoothly.

Things still to resolve:

• A few more details to paint
• Numbering (I've asked Railtec for some decals)
• Weathering
• Fit buffers, cosmetic coupling hooks and Kadees
• Fit LEDs for marker lights (now ordered)
• Fit DCC decoder, stay-alive and wiring (now ordered)
• Put some thin black platicard behind the bonnet grilles to block the view
• Fit the radiator fan and cab control console
• Fit glazing to the cab windows, and a driver

It's riding about 0.5mm too low at present; I need to fit a couple of thin packers between the chassis and the footplate.

 

[Galteemore]

Wow just wow. Amazing how quickly you have managed to do this. Jaw droppingly good work.

[Mol_PMB]

Thanks! I'm pleased with how it has come together. The etches can be made available (at cost, directly from the etchers at 4D Modelshop) for anyone else who wants to make one. 

I will also put together a list of the other parts needed, and finish off writing the instructions which I can share here.

 

 

[MD220]

That looks fantastic. Great job, and has already been said, in such a short time too!

A 421 class next, perhaps...??!

[leslie10646]

You won't believe that I'm saying this - it's a diesel after all - , but I have to agree with @Galteemore that really has a Wow Factor. It catches the essential "E Class" perfectly. A great piece of work.

They were ubquitous around Dublin in the 1960s when I first visited as an enthusiast.

Will you build me one, please?

[Mol_PMB]

1 minute ago, MD220 said:

That looks fantastic. Great job, and has already been said, in such a short time too!

A 421 class next, perhaps...??!

I would certainly consider doing an E421, there should be a fair bit in common in the design and construction methods even if the details and dimensions are almost all different! I think an E421 may have greater appeal, but I'm aware that it's also a more likely target for an IRM RTR model. I'll let the dust settle on the E401 first, and I'll have to get myself to Downpatrick for a crawl over an E421 at some stage.

 

3 minutes ago, leslie10646 said:

You won't believe that I'm saying this - it's a diesel after all - , but I have to agree with @Galteemore that really has a Wow Factor. It catches the essential "E Class" perfectly. A great piece of work.

They were ubquitous around Dublin in the 1960s when I first visited as an enthusiast.

Will you build me one, please?

Many thanks Leslie, that means a lot!

Sorry, I don't think I'm going to get into building these for other people - and you're not the only person to have asked! There are a lot of manhours involved and they would be prohibitively expensive if I charged a sensible rate for my time. Perhaps more importantly, I can't let my hobby to become a chore - I'm still in full time employment and lead a busy life, and if I committed several months worth of modelling time to building models for other people then it wouldn't be an enjoyable and relaxing activity.

Once I've completed this first one, then in due course I intend to finish building a second one for myself - as a black loco in later condition.

[RedRich]

It's been sometime since a model design, build, and finishing off with paint and decoration has truly been as amazing as this is.

I agree when the hobby becomes a job it ceases to be a hobby.

Rich,