Heritage Railways in the Republic of Ireland

[Mol_PMB]

It’s worth noting though that the ‘running costs’ of a large old building can be very high, especially if it’s past its best and you’re trying to keep the internal environment suitable for the conservation of historic artefacts (e.g. moderately stable temperature and humidity)
Most museums don’t make money, even NRM York has become more of a food court than a museum in an attempt to cover its costs. 
To achieve an income with any hope of covering the costs you would need the museum to be open most days. A few special events per year won’t cut it. 

[Galteemore]

Yes, TFL manage it as effectively a store for big items. Museum money, if money there is, comes from the main show in Covent Garden. I did have a look at visitor figures from Bord Failte. A fair comparison of how much interest there is in railways might be to take two sites which are geographically contiguous. One railway related, one not. So here goes: two attractions a 4 minutes walk apart. 

Donegal Castle 63072

Donegal Railway Heritage Centre 7000

Now we can cavil over stats but that’s got to be interesting….the Donegal museum is a very slick and attractive operation but even that struggles. 
 

Most attractive thing in the country is apparently Phoenix Park visitor centre with 1.9m recorded.
 
I also had a look at the UK. Biggest heritage railway is NYMR which pulls in about 350,000 punters a year. Even so, that makes it rank about 150th on list of top UK attractions. 

Edited Thursday at 13:57 by Galteemore

[David Holman]

It was my birthday yesterday & my wife organised a day out for me on the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch Railway. Considering it was a Wednesday in term time, there were reasonable numbers of visitors & an hourly train service to Dungeness. OK the Romney is 15" gauge, but is very much run like a real railway. Indeed, at Romney itself, I doubt there are many preserved lines in the whole of the country with that amount of track and points, to say nothing of the multi platform station with its overall roof. 

 There were four trains and five locos in action to operate the service, while a day rover ticket was about £27.00

 Our loco, Northern Chief, is 100 years old this year!

 Not sure what this has to do with preserved railways in Ireland, other than with half a dozen other preserved lines within an hours drive, it shows how lucky we are this side of the water. We had a lovely day out, so long may they prosper!

 

[Galteemore]

Fab. Love the RHDR. Although in this context of resourcing, I suppose the point is that it was built by two millionaire playboys and nearly shut down completely when they disappeared from the scene! It’s a fabulous set up. Main line in miniature 

Edited Thursday at 16:02 by Galteemore

[Mol_PMB]

That is a good example of the challenge. It doesn’t just need a vast amount of money and commitment to create in the first place, it also needs an ongoing commitment from many other people to keep it going long term. 
 

[StevieB]

I believe I read recently that the RHDR needs to spend a considerable sum of money to ensure its long term future. It is truly a mainline in miniature.

Stephen

[jhb171achill]

Several comments above relating to money. With the exception of (from memory) some 6 or 7 individuals, Irish railway preservation has never benefitted from the financial largesse of super-wealthy people as it has in Britain; and within the low numbers we HAVE had, the single most generous one I've been aware of in the last 35 years would still not be of the ilk of Alan Pegler, or the Rampton Trust with its seemingly bottomless pit of money. 

Time and time again, arguments are put forward here which sometimes come from within the enthusiast community, sometimes outside it, for example, well-meaning people who take the view that various long closed lines would be an absolute boon to tourism if reopened, with an attendant implication of financial self-sustainabilit, or better - as a result.

We need to get this quite straight: (a) any cost of any such thing will be astronomical. Neither private individuals nor local authorities, still less central government, have ever been prepared to put up the money needed for such things, be it a reopened IE line or a preservation operation. (b) As stated before, there isn't the interest.

This is how we differ from Britain, which we can but envy. 

In summary, England alone has something like ten times the population of all of Ireland. Ireland has a single standard gauge preserved line, and a total "main line" 5'3" gauge mileage of about 5 miles.

If the English, specifically, had similar levels of interest, there would be perhaps nine or ten lines there, with a total mileage of about 45. As we know, there is very considerably more than that, both in mileage and in terms of actual number of preserved lines. Instead of about 9, England has OVER 200, plus endless museums.

Have a look at the narrow gauge. Excluding WSVR, which to be fair is more of a pleasure ride than an actual preserved railway, we have the C&L & Finntown (which is so impossibly remote that it's hard to see its long term future) which together total about three miles. Look at the Welsh narrow gauge; and Wales has a smaller population than Ireland! I can think offhand of 12 lines there with 130 route miles. There is simply no comparison.

As stated before, we must nurture what we have, and help where we can. Be content with reality!

[Mayner]

In was estimated in 2001 that £ 10 million was required to establish the  proposed National Transport Museum at Mullingar Station.  https://www.irishtimes.com/news/preservation-is-train-of-thought-in-mullingar-1.334938 . Apparrently it was expected that Central Government & possibly EU would fully fund the project, the article speaks about the Muesum Group expecting to meet the Minister of Arts, Culture, Gaeltacht and the Islands to request  £1 million in funding for immediate conservation work (urgent repairs). 

It looks like the museum was proposed by a local group which may not have given up on the hope of establishing a museum despite serious setbacks https://www.westmeathexaminer.ie/2014/03/19/dreams-of-a-rail-museum-in-mullingar-dealt-a-blow/

I wonder are the museum group still about or have considered other sources of fund raising?

 

[west_clare_wanderer]

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

In summary, England alone has something like ten times the population of all of Ireland. Ireland has a single standard gauge preserved line, and a total "main line" 5'3" gauge mileage of about 5 miles.

If the English, specifically, had similar levels of interest, there would be perhaps nine or ten lines there, with a total mileage of about 45. As we know, there is very considerably more than that, both in mileage and in terms of actual number of preserved lines. Instead of about 9, England has OVER 200, plus endless museums.

This gets to the heart of the matter. But is it safe to say that Britain is the outlier? No other country in Europe has similar levels of interest in heritage railways. 

With Irish eyes, we can envy, but also can be grateful for what we do have. Unless there's a multi millionaire benefactor - such as a Pete Waterman - or a complete U-turn in public finding, then the situation will never change. 

And in Britain the same problems are increasingly faced... Ageing volunteers, ill health, lack of skills etc are only going to get worse. A few railways have prioritised youth and equal opportunities - the Ffestinog springs to mind - but within a generation most heritage railways are going to be struggling for bodies and money. Especially as the UK governments funding of 'the arts' seems to be getting no better. 

6 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

...we must nurture what we have, and help where we can. Be content with reality!

Couldn't agree more. Let's support what is here, rather than lamenting what has gone. The same could be said for the real railway network! 

The above is just my opinion as a lay person, so please feel free to tell me I'm talking rubbish. I won't be offended! 

 

[Mol_PMB]

2 hours ago, west_clare_wanderer said:

This gets to the heart of the matter. But is it safe to say that Britain is the outlier? No other country in Europe has similar levels of interest in heritage railways

Germany is quite strong on heritage railways, and a decade ago I would have said Austria too.
There is also a great deal of interest in railway heritage in Switzerland but the operating model is different - almost all the independent metre gauge lines have a heritage operator as well as the regular one. More like lots of mini-RPSIs, but most now have operating licenses in their own right rather than relying on the host railway for drivers etc. Switzerland probably has more heritage operations per capita than the UK, but they operate less frequently. 

[GSWR 90]

The long and the short of it is that people in Britain put their hands in their pockets, got up off their armchairs, or both. In general, people in Ireland did not. 

If you want to know why the preservation scene in Ireland is so small, simply ask yourself “Why am I still in my armchair?” or “Why is my hand not in my pocket?”. You might have good answers to those questions, you might not.
 

If everyone on this thread donated a few quid a year, it would make a big difference.

Edited Friday at 08:53 by GSWR 90

[Westcorkrailway]

On 18/6/2025 at 2:20 PM, Wexford70 said:

Any more information on who they were or what the plan was?

I can’t remember the exact details. Only that it was blocked due to the want for a successful competing bus service 

[Horsetan]

2 hours ago, GSWR 90 said:

The long and the short of it is that people in Britain put their hands in their pockets, got up off their armchairs, or both. In general, people in Ireland did not. 

If you want to know why the preservation scene in Ireland is so small, simply ask yourself “Why am I still in my armchair?” or “Why is my hand not in my pocket?”. You might have good answers to those questions, you might not....

The Irish public will generally only get involved if someone else is paying for it. It was ever thus - just look at all the various proposals for building Irish branch lines; the mere mention of having to fork out for it was enough to see interest melt away from most....

5 hours ago, west_clare_wanderer said:

... within a generation most heritage railways are going to be struggling for bodies and money....

I'd say the more immediate concern is a reliable source of fuel for all the steam locomotive fleet, as eco-mental concerns have deliberately made domestic coal unavailable. Current experiments with eco fuels suggest miniature and narrow gauge engines can run (expensively) on it, but standard gauge not so much...

[Mayner]

1 hour ago, Mol_PMB said:

Germany is quite strong on heritage railways, and a decade ago I would have said Austria too.
There is also a great deal of interest in railway heritage in Switzerland but the operating model is different - almost all the independent metre gauge lines have a heritage operator as well as the regular one. More like lots of mini-RPSIs, but most now have operating licenses in their own right rather than relying on the host railway for drivers etc. Switzerland probably has more heritage operations per capita than the UK, but they operate less frequently. 

Interestingly there was a feature on the Tv the other night about the Glenbrook Vintage Railway (near Auckland) is running a train (steam and diesel hauled) to Palmerston North (over 400km) for this years Matariki (Maori New Year) Festival https://www.facebook.com/glenbrookvintagerailway/ the hosts Steam Incorporated near Wellington proudly pointed out that this would be the first time that trains would be crewed by heritage railway personnel (presumably with a Kiwirail pilot). 

[Mol_PMB]

A couple of examples I’ve visited this weekend in Switzerland, a country with a population broadly comparable with Ireland but more densely populated. 
 

‘La Traction’ operates steam trains over the metre gauge lines in Jura Canton. Typical of many historic groups operating steam over the rural metre-gauge lines (most of which survived in Switzerland, unlike the Irish 3’ lines). One of their Mallets in steam yesterday being prepared for the day:

 

And in the cities, most of the tramways have an associated museum/preservation group operating tours over the city routes at weekends. Today I am in Bern and this 1940s tram is running on one of the routes all day, for a supplementary fare payable on board:

[Horsetan]

3 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

A couple of examples I’ve visited this weekend in Switzerland, a country with a population broadly comparable with Ireland but more densely populated. 
 

‘La Traction’ operates steam trains over the metre gauge lines in Jura Canton. Typical of many historic groups operating steam over the rural metre-gauge lines (most of which survived in Switzerland, unlike the Irish 3’ lines). ....

And in the cities, most of the tramways have an associated museum/preservation group operating tours over the city routes at weekends. Today I am in Bern and this 1940s tram is running on one of the routes all day.....

 

Presumably everything runs punctually?

[Mol_PMB]

5 minutes ago, Horsetan said:

Presumably everything runs punctually?

Not always. I have had a couple of short delays and the dreaded schienenersatzvehrkehr on two occasions. 
My recent experiences of Ireland have been equally reliable and punctual. I cannot say the same of GB…

[commerlad]

The above posts have gone on about location and population in those areas, But I think some of you miss the point that those locations are holiday destinations or have good transport links.

Wales is only in most cases only 2 or 3 hours drive away from England.

Any thoughts that Ireland is that same 2 or 3 hours drive, A 2 hour ferry crossing plus the 1hr check in beforehand and then guess what. Another couple of hours drive to get to the location.

It's not that those in the UK are not interested in Irish historic railways, It's just the practicalities of getting there easily are not viable.  Especially as most do day trips to locations on the Mainland.

Off the top of my head I can legally get to at least 10 mainland locations within an hours drive from home (according to google maps) for only minimal fuel costs.

Anywhere in Ireland is 3 days 2 nights and a ferry fare.

 

After checking I got that number to 16

Edited 1 hour ago by commerlad

[Horsetan]

2 hours ago, Mol_PMB said:

.... I cannot say the same of GB…

Turd World Britain 

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, commerlad said:

The above posts have gone on about location and population in those areas, But I think some of you miss the point that those locations are holiday destinations or have good transport links.

Wales is only in most cases only 2 or 3 hours drive away from England.

Any thoughts that Ireland is that same 2 or 3 hours drive, A 2 hour ferry crossing plus the 1hr check in beforehand and then guess what. Another couple of hours drive to get to the location.

It's not that those in the UK are not interested in Irish historic railways, It's just the practicalities of getting there easily are not viable.  Especially as most do day trips to locations on the Mainland.

Off the top of my head I can legally get to at least 10 mainland locations within an hours drive from home (according to google maps) for only minimal fuel costs.

Anywhere in Ireland is 3 days 2 nights and a ferry fare.

 

After checking I got that number to 16

Just to add the majority of clientele on the RPSI may railtour are English, so that level of support in spite of geographical, cost and other obstacles is all the more impressive.

I've been on a few steam trips abroad, Italy where vast majority of punters were...Italian, Australia...Aussies (with a few poms), Czech Republic...surprise surprise Czechs, Germany...Germans. Here, on a May tour in Ireland, Irish people are in the minority like an endangered species!

Edited 2 minutes ago by minister_for_hardship