Broithe Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 A scenario in which the black sod bay terminus had been built to its earlier designs, finished just before the war the bay receives good traffic in the 20s but the 30s and 40s bring little traffic and after years of neglect it's closed. Possibly reopened in the 80s but scaled down to a one or two platform station, it now receives a couple of 22000s a day but nothing more. Or is re-opened with cruise ships in mind and chartered excursion trains...? Quote
GSR 800 Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Yes it probably would have been developed for that in the boom and would hang on in the crash, in the what if 2015 cruise ship traffic would be increasing slowly and bringing profit in. Summer would bring great business to the area Quote
jhb171achill Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 I'd see it closing with the Achill branch in 1937 and then converted into a Great Southern Hotel. Possibly a hilton today with the old platform area a high-end restaurant called "The Station" or something like that! Quote
Mayner Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Fascinating! The original terminus proposed about 1906 was a more conventional thing. Obviously, they went off and thought in grander terms! The Blacksod Terminal seems to have been part of a much bigger scheme for communication between the UK and the more far flung parts of the Empire without having to set foot on foreign soil. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Red_Route. Its hard to know if the promoters lead by J P McAndrew and a group of English investors were genuine in their attempts or it was a speculative bubble feeding of the rampant jingoism and nationalist fever that lead to the Great War. Mc Andrew and his supporters also appear to have taken out mining options in the Arigna Valley and made two unsuccessful attempts to build a broad gauge Sligo-Arigna line. I always liked the idea of a Ballina-Crossmolina line that would have given Burtonport and the Kyle of Lochalsh & Mallaig lines a run for their money in terms of remoteness, possibly hanging on into the late 50s like Valentia or Kenmare. I just wonder how the terminal building with its concrete structure and glass roof would have held up to the salt air and Atlantic storms. Quote
jhb171achill Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 Crossmolina would be a great model for a fictitious MGWR terminus! Quote
jhb171achill Posted August 24, 2015 Posted August 24, 2015 (edited) Another "might have been" with definite modelling potential. Most of us will be aware of the Glenariff 3ft gauge mineral line in Co Antrim, which ceased to function prior to the 20th century. It was Ireland's first 3ft gauge line. Where it ended, it was far too high up the mountain to be able to serve the port down below, one of the reasons for its demise. What if some sort of Devils Nose type thing, a series of reversals, or even a rack line, had been included? It might have even survived to become part of the NCC narrow gauge network. Question: what other opportunities might have existed for mountain reversals, rack lines or mining railways? Edited August 24, 2015 by jhb171achill Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Here's a good might have been, what if the GSR had good funding in the 30s and 40s, and with better advertising awareness like the GNR had Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 Building a model of the terminal building in an average railway room you wouldn't have much space for the trackwork! Sure the terminus building is the only thing they would be looking at! Quote
jhb171achill Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 The GSR actually did have very good publicity machinery, especially in relation to their considerable chain of railway hotels..... They had tourist buses of their own, too, in the west, and in Kerry. Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 But you know the way the GNR got a new livery, a named express and modernised their steam fleet Quote
jhb171achill Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 See what you mean, GSR. The 800 class "mid green with bluish tint", complete with its yellow and black lining, would probably have spread instead of the all-over unlined grey. It would also have adorned a fleet of newer-built standard classes of steam engines. Possibly, main line diesels might have been experimented with, as the LMS in England did. The narrow gauge lines then deemed worth saving (T & D, WCR, and C & L) would have been comprehensively modernised, and in the case of the WCR and T & D, we know that at least vague consideration had been given to conversion to 5ft 3. Quote
Mayner Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 (edited) The GSR actually did have very good publicity machinery, especially in relation to their considerable chain of railway hotels..... They had tourist buses of their own, too, in the west, and in Kerry. The GSR & Irish Free State publicity machines seems to have been aimed chiefly at competing with Northern Ireland and the GNR & NCC for overseas visitors. Once the GSR had successfully lobbied Government to allow the railways to take over competing road services there was no real need for a publicity machine in the Free State, the real problem was economic stagnation and the long drawn out closure process for uneconomic lines. Had the GSR got its way the narrow gauge and most branch and cross-country lines would have gone by 1939, this would have allowed most of the older and non-standard stock to be scrapped, leaving the GSR with a modern fleet of locos and rolling stock. Edited September 5, 2015 by Mayner Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 If this happened and diesel was more expensive than coal for some reason and governments of Ireland were pro rail and if we had a larger population it would mean a lot more locos and rolling stock. It's 1946 and CIE have decided to continue the GSR's renual of the steam fleet. plans are drawn up for new moguls or medium sized 4-6-0s to replace some of the older D's still on mainline duty. The 400s and 500s are given some minor improvments and 2 or 3 more 800s are built. diesel is experimented with and the result are are some light diesels to share suburban services with some Bandons and 2-4-2s. The turf burning project is still a failure but CC1 actually gets to do some proper runs. By 1950 the 2-6-0s have entered service and the older D's are either put on branch lines or scrapped. The J15as and bs have been completely rebuilt with the j15as giving superheated boilers and multiple other improvements. The original j15s are still in service but their numbers are reduced. In 1968 diesel arrives with the 141s? and some steamers are taken out of traffic. 181s would not have ever be needed but in 1982 the 071s would come about. In the 90s with the steam age ending it does so in spectacular fashion. the 800s are given their last chance to run and pound the mainline with all their might. the 201s enter service a year later. And forget DMUs they might have been inevitable everywhere else but not in my mind! Quote
jhb171achill Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 I'll give you full marks for imagination, gsr800! Fascinating scenario..... Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 5, 2015 Posted September 5, 2015 I'm just thinking. In that scenario would we end up with Black and Tan Bandons? Or would steamers be kept in green for passenger locos and grey for freight. Quote
jhb171achill Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 No way of telling. I suspect, for several reasons, that steam into the sixties would have gradually become black, prob with white number and CIE roundel... Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 And preservation? I can think of a roundhouse of 800s.... Quote
jhb171achill Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 "Might-have-beens" in preservation are very numerous! Given willing manpower and money (neither existing in sufficient quantities in 99% of Irish society), anything's possible. I am aware, however, of several which were comprehensively researched, but nothing ever came of them. A section of the Tullow branch, a stretch of the Athboy branch, and a stretch of the erstwhile SLNCR near Belcoo, were all looked at in the 1990s / 2000s by several groups, and dirty tears ago the RPSI considered the ex-GNR Banbridge to Scarva line. The Fenit and Loughrea branches were in the preservation sights for a short while, and short sections of the Achill and Clifden lines were examined for possible preservation many years ago. Imagine a comprehensive Festiniog-style section of the CDR; maybe Donegal to Stranorlar, and a good stretch of 5ft 3 as well. Banbridge would be quite ok! Or a scenic part of Mallow to Waterford..... Achill would be excellent.... Too many possibilities..... Several narrow Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 What if the GSR HAD built Pacifics? Named after saints methinks? No. 1000 St Patrick? Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 6, 2015 Posted September 6, 2015 Achill would be a lovely tourist railway. Halts at the famine village, keel and the a climb to reach Keem beach loop. Terminus at Achill sound Quote
minister_for_hardship Posted September 6, 2015 Author Posted September 6, 2015 "Might-have-beens" in preservation are very numerous! Dr Cox's rebuilt and relocated CDR in the United States that never came to pass. What is now the Great Southern Trail started life as a preserved railway proposal afaik. Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 Would their have been any talk of large 4-4-0s in Ichicore in the 30's to respond to the GNRs compounds? Quote
Mayner Posted September 11, 2015 Posted September 11, 2015 (edited) Would their have been any talk of large 4-4-0s in Ichicore in the 30's to respond to the GNRs compounds?[/quote It could be argued that the 800 Class was the GSRs response to the Compounds or Vs The introduction during the 1920s of the 400 & 500 Class 4-6-0, the 26 Woolwich 2-6-0, 22 623 Class (J5) Midland Cattle engines and rebuilding of Coey's 321 (D2) & 305 (D12) 4-4-0s with very little scrapping of older types left the GSR with a surplus of large passenger and mixed traffic locos by the early 1930s. The five 342 Class (D4s) 4-4-0s built in the Mid-30 were large mixed traffic locos and seem to have been built as a direct replacement for 305, 321, 341 Class 4-4-0s scrapped during the Depression. The scrapping of some the locos and replacement with similar locos 5 years later is not as odd as it seems, the 342s had wider route availability than the scrapped 341 & 321 locos and would have been steadier at speed than the Woolwich and large MGWR D6 & 7 Class 4-4-0s. The 342 & similar 333 Class worked passenger and mail trains on most main GSWR routes, the South Eastern and the Midland line to Sligo. Edited September 11, 2015 by Mayner Quote
minister_for_hardship Posted September 15, 2015 Author Posted September 15, 2015 What if the GSR HAD built Pacifics? Named after saints methinks? No. 1000 St Patrick? Names would most likely have been rendered in Irish a la the 800's if that had even been in the realms of reality. Pacifics? Hardly required. The 800s were oversized vanity projects with no use outside of Dub-Cork. Smaller, cheaper to build and maintain locos with wider route availability would have been a better investment. Quote
jhb171achill Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Inspired by talk on another thread about the possibility of the Harlandic loco having been newly painted in NIR maroon before its withdrawal, and pics on IRM a couple of years ago of a 141 in "freight" silver and black, what passes for my mind began wandering into "might have been liveries"... There are many examples of where a new livery was never applied to old stock about to be withdrawn, but ran concurrently with it. An E class in "supertrain" livery An NIR AEC set in maroon and blue; likewise an MED. Being political: a Hunslet in black & tan when the "troubles" produced a United Ireland, or to be balanced, a 141 and laminates in NIR maroon/blue after the 26 counties rejoined the north in the UK! Steam lasts - a "jeep" in NIR loco maroon! And a few remaining J15s plus Maedb in CIE black'n'tan. The West Clare survives another year. Walker railcar in black'n'tan, F class diesel in all-black? And so on....... Quote
josefstadt Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 Maedb in CIE black'n'tan The mind boggles. Anyone up for producing a photoshop image of this? Quote
jhb171achill Posted September 20, 2015 Posted September 20, 2015 An 80 class in black'n'tan? An ICR or Mk 4 set? Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 maybe for steamers black with orange lining? Quote
GSR 800 Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 (edited) Or something like this?http://www.steamlocomotive.com/colored/sp4449-inline.jpg Edited September 21, 2015 by GSR 800 Quote
jhb171achill Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Wow! "Maedb"* in the "Supertrain" era..... (* Maedb was the original "supertrain"!) Quote
Glenderg Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 The mind boggles. Anyone up for producing a photoshop image of this? Idiotic idea. Quote
RobertRoche Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Idiotic idea. [ATTACH=CONFIG]20118[/ATTACH] It could have ended up looking like this! Now trying to imagine a steam loco in the new enterprise livery I think we'll stick with green and our flying snails Quote
Noel Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 Ahem - has this thread entered la-la land? Quote
Glenderg Posted September 21, 2015 Posted September 21, 2015 .... a Hunslet in black & tan .... But shur twas done JB, so it was, so. Quote
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