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The Official Irish 'Might Have Beens' Thread

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A scenario in which the black sod bay terminus had been built to its earlier designs, finished just before the war the bay receives good traffic in the 20s but the 30s and 40s bring little traffic and after years of neglect it's closed. Possibly reopened in the 80s but scaled down to a one or two platform station, it now receives a couple of 22000s a day but nothing more.

 

Or is re-opened with cruise ships in mind and chartered excursion trains...?

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Fascinating!

 

The original terminus proposed about 1906 was a more conventional thing. Obviously, they went off and thought in grander terms!

 

The Blacksod Terminal seems to have been part of a much bigger scheme for communication between the UK and the more far flung parts of the Empire without having to set foot on foreign soil. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Red_Route.

 

Its hard to know if the promoters lead by J P McAndrew and a group of English investors were genuine in their attempts or it was a speculative bubble feeding of the rampant jingoism and nationalist fever that lead to the Great War. Mc Andrew and his supporters also appear to have taken out mining options in the Arigna Valley and made two unsuccessful attempts to build a broad gauge Sligo-Arigna line.

 

I always liked the idea of a Ballina-Crossmolina line that would have given Burtonport and the Kyle of Lochalsh & Mallaig lines a run for their money in terms of remoteness, possibly hanging on into the late 50s like Valentia or Kenmare.

 

I just wonder how the terminal building with its concrete structure and glass roof would have held up to the salt air and Atlantic storms.

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Another "might have been" with definite modelling potential.

 

Most of us will be aware of the Glenariff 3ft gauge mineral line in Co Antrim, which ceased to function prior to the 20th century. It was Ireland's first 3ft gauge line. Where it ended, it was far too high up the mountain to be able to serve the port down below, one of the reasons for its demise.

 

What if some sort of Devils Nose type thing, a series of reversals, or even a rack line, had been included? It might have even survived to become part of the NCC narrow gauge network.

 

Question: what other opportunities might have existed for mountain reversals, rack lines or mining railways?

Edited by jhb171achill
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  • 2 weeks later...

See what you mean, GSR. The 800 class "mid green with bluish tint", complete with its yellow and black lining, would probably have spread instead of the all-over unlined grey. It would also have adorned a fleet of newer-built standard classes of steam engines. Possibly, main line diesels might have been experimented with, as the LMS in England did.

 

The narrow gauge lines then deemed worth saving (T & D, WCR, and C & L) would have been comprehensively modernised, and in the case of the WCR and T & D, we know that at least vague consideration had been given to conversion to 5ft 3.

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The GSR actually did have very good publicity machinery, especially in relation to their considerable chain of railway hotels.....

 

They had tourist buses of their own, too, in the west, and in Kerry.

 

The GSR & Irish Free State publicity machines seems to have been aimed chiefly at competing with Northern Ireland and the GNR & NCC for overseas visitors.

 

Once the GSR had successfully lobbied Government to allow the railways to take over competing road services there was no real need for a publicity machine in the Free State, the real problem was economic stagnation and the long drawn out closure process for uneconomic lines.

 

Had the GSR got its way the narrow gauge and most branch and cross-country lines would have gone by 1939, this would have allowed most of the older and non-standard stock to be scrapped, leaving the GSR with a modern fleet of locos and rolling stock.

Edited by Mayner
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If this happened and diesel was more expensive than coal for some reason and governments of Ireland were pro rail and if we had a larger population it would mean a lot more locos and rolling stock. It's 1946 and CIE have decided to continue the GSR's renual of the steam fleet. plans are drawn up for new moguls or medium sized 4-6-0s to replace some of the older D's still on mainline duty. The 400s and 500s are given some minor improvments and 2 or 3 more 800s are built. diesel is experimented with and the result are are some light diesels to share suburban services with some Bandons and 2-4-2s. The turf burning project is still a failure but CC1 actually gets to do some proper runs. By 1950 the 2-6-0s have entered service and the older D's are either put on branch lines or scrapped. The J15as and bs have been completely rebuilt with the j15as giving superheated boilers and multiple other improvements. The original j15s are still in service but their numbers are reduced. In 1968 diesel arrives with the 141s? and some steamers are taken out of traffic. 181s would not have ever be needed but in 1982 the 071s would come about. In the 90s with the steam age ending it does so in spectacular fashion. the 800s are given their last chance to run and pound the mainline with all their might. the 201s enter service a year later. And forget DMUs they might have been inevitable everywhere else but not in my mind!

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"Might-have-beens" in preservation are very numerous!

 

Given willing manpower and money (neither existing in sufficient quantities in 99% of Irish society), anything's possible. I am aware, however, of several which were comprehensively researched, but nothing ever came of them. A section of the Tullow branch, a stretch of the Athboy branch, and a stretch of the erstwhile SLNCR near Belcoo, were all looked at in the 1990s / 2000s by several groups, and dirty tears ago the RPSI considered the ex-GNR Banbridge to Scarva line. The Fenit and Loughrea branches were in the preservation sights for a short while, and short sections of the Achill and Clifden lines were examined for possible preservation many years ago.

 

Imagine a comprehensive Festiniog-style section of the CDR; maybe Donegal to Stranorlar, and a good stretch of 5ft 3 as well. Banbridge would be quite ok! Or a scenic part of Mallow to Waterford..... Achill would be excellent....

 

Too many possibilities.....

 

Several narrow

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Would their have been any talk of large 4-4-0s in Ichicore in the 30's to respond to the GNRs compounds?[/quote

 

It could be argued that the 800 Class was the GSRs response to the Compounds or Vs

 

The introduction during the 1920s of the 400 & 500 Class 4-6-0, the 26 Woolwich 2-6-0, 22 623 Class (J5) Midland Cattle engines and rebuilding of Coey's 321 (D2) & 305 (D12) 4-4-0s with very little scrapping of older types left the GSR with a surplus of large passenger and mixed traffic locos by the early 1930s.

 

The five 342 Class (D4s) 4-4-0s built in the Mid-30 were large mixed traffic locos and seem to have been built as a direct replacement for 305, 321, 341 Class 4-4-0s scrapped during the Depression.

 

The scrapping of some the locos and replacement with similar locos 5 years later is not as odd as it seems, the 342s had wider route availability than the scrapped 341 & 321 locos and would have been steadier at speed than the Woolwich and large MGWR D6 & 7 Class 4-4-0s. The 342 & similar 333 Class worked passenger and mail trains on most main GSWR routes, the South Eastern and the Midland line to Sligo.

Edited by Mayner
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What if the GSR HAD built Pacifics? Named after saints methinks? No. 1000 St Patrick?

 

Names would most likely have been rendered in Irish a la the 800's if that had even been in the realms of reality.

 

Pacifics? Hardly required. The 800s were oversized vanity projects with no use outside of Dub-Cork. Smaller, cheaper to build and maintain locos with wider route availability would have been a better investment.

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Inspired by talk on another thread about the possibility of the Harlandic loco having been newly painted in NIR maroon before its withdrawal, and pics on IRM a couple of years ago of a 141 in "freight" silver and black, what passes for my mind began wandering into "might have been liveries"...

 

There are many examples of where a new livery was never applied to old stock about to be withdrawn, but ran concurrently with it.

 

An E class in "supertrain" livery

 

An NIR AEC set in maroon and blue; likewise an MED.

 

Being political: a Hunslet in black & tan when the "troubles" produced a United Ireland, or to be balanced, a 141 and laminates in NIR maroon/blue after the 26 counties rejoined the north in the UK!

 

Steam lasts - a "jeep" in NIR loco maroon! And a few remaining J15s plus Maedb in CIE black'n'tan.

 

The West Clare survives another year. Walker railcar in black'n'tan, F class diesel in all-black?

 

And so on.......

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