The official Irish" Conversion" thread

[murrayec]

I'm not going to ask what the Vaseline is for just because you live on your own.....

 

It's to grease me mould....

[richrua]

 

Here is my conversion, the easiest of all - N class br to K Class Irish. I didnt fix the smoke box door yet. Waiting for a flush of confidence. DCC Is in - was a non dcc version- i put a stay alive capacitor in the tender. Not bad for £38 plus £11 for decoder plus £7 for grey spray. Pleased thus far.

[jhb171achill]

That grey looks as close to the real thing as I've seen.

[richrua]

was a bit of a stab in the dark. Cant really get hobby sprays easily up here anymore. it is Halfords Rover Hurricane Grey. yes I thought it looked reasonably close to any colour photo i have seen.

[jhb171achill]

In that case it's worth recording for the benefit of others that this shade and this make are right.

 

All it needs is a yellow unlined cab number and light green lined snail on the tender! ;-)

 

If snail-less, it's also accurate. If it retains on old GSR numberplates, grey background, not black...

 

But ye know that, rich...! Just for the info of others, if interested!

[richrua]

thanks JHB . that is just the 'finishing touch' details i really need help with. mucho thankos !

[jhb171achill]

No probs!

Edited February 4, 2016 by jhb171achill

[Mike 84C]

Roxeyguy, I bought a B1 of similar price and vintage and was very disapointed. The split frame chassis seems to be very variable in performance and I have bought a Comet etched chassis to cure the problem. Having said all of that I have a J39 that runs very well and a V1 that runs well. But I would not buy an older split frame Mainline/Bachmann loco via ebay. Best to see it running first. And best of luck if you have already gone ahead!

[jhb171achill]

Buying anything on eBay can have its issues. I bought one Austrian narrow gauge loco, and paid well for it, and it didn't work at all! (got it fixed).

[Glenderg]

I bought a Flying Scotsman 10 years ago, and the photo was of a superb looking thing altogether. What turned up was a mess, with the front bogie hanging off like a dislodged testicle.

 

I pretty much put that in the feedback, and oddly enough, he wasn't keen to rectify the issue. It's still in a "dysfunction" state

[jhb171achill]

Off topic I know, but do buyers have any comeback on ebay?

[DiveController]

Off topic I know, but do buyers have any comeback on ebay?

It depends on how you look at it. If you agree to purchase an item you enter into a 'binding contract' to purchase the item. If you don't complete the purchase your can be reported to eBay and be suspended. If you are a seller and refuse to send the item sold in the 'binding contract' for any reason (real or otherwise), you cannot be compelled to send the item by eBay. Technically, eBay can register a negative mark against the seller but as a buyer, I have never seen this displayed in a seller's ratings.

 

If you do not receive an item or one that if defective, you need to negotiate with the seller before you have any right of complaint to eBay. They will step in once a complaint can finally be filed and will usually get your money back for a lost item. For damaged or not as described items the seller may insist on the return of the item and (usually) may not agree to reimburse return shipping costs even though the seller is responsible fro the safe delivery of the item under eBay rules. Not so bad for local purchases but for international or heavier items this can prove expensive if the seller does not package it well to begin with.

 

You can complain to eBay as mentioned if you have an adverse experience with a seller. They will 'investigate' it and NOT inform you of the decision. You have the option to leave negative feedback for a seller if you have had a poor experience. If you have complained to eBay and they have 'resolved' the issue by reimbursing you etc they will remove any negative feedback you have left for that seller, so others may experience the same thing again from that seller. I purchased something from a UK seller recently, and in discussion with him about delivery of my item we chatted and he was surprised to have experienced exactly that because the other party had 100% positive feedback rating.

 

Any party can whine to eBay that it has received 'unfair' negative feedback and have it removed, recreating the 100% positive feedback rating. eBay is a US based company and there is a societal preoccupation with superlatives where nothing but a 100% rating will be adequate. eBay has a very vested interest in having sellers with excellent seller ratings - SALES, since it take a nice percentage in sales fees (plus shipping fees)

 

Finally you have the option to take up the issue with PayPal. It used to be that they would not deal with any eBay issue for obvious reasons as an eBay company but they are now separate so I'm uncertain about the new arrangement (eBay used to have the transaction fee from that too)

 

There are many very legitimate sellers on eBay and I have had some excellent experiences with them when things go well, and when things go wrong. As a frequent eBay user I have learned that a flexible and pragmatic approach is often required but there is a small(er) proportion of jerks on there so you take a risk when purchasing an item, which is frequently not a bargain. I use eBay when I cannot acquire an item somewhere else but for those of you who have the option to walk into your local model shop, or buy online from a model shop (almost all are helpful and reputable) that is likely to be much less at risk when an issue arises, and helpful advice available for things purchased and many besides. There are also other reputable vendors who have a love of modeling and railways that trade in these items.

 

This might be better on the eBay thread is Mod wants to move

Edited February 4, 2016 by DiveController

[roxyguy]

Roxeyguy, I bought a B1 of similar price and vintage and was very disapointed. The split frame chassis seems to be very variable in performance and I have bought a Comet etched chassis to cure the problem. Having said all of that I have a J39 that runs very well and a V1 that runs well. But I would not buy an older split frame Mainline/Bachmann loco via ebay. Best to see it running first. And best of luck if you have already gone ahead!

 

Thanks for that. Didn't bought yet. I'm wondering does the hornby patriot class use a ringfield motor? I've seen the 3 poles upgraded to 5 pole with impressive results. I've just ordered 5 pole armature to swatch out on another old loco.

[GSR 800]

Recently finished the smokebox door on 402. Thanks to Des for supplying the handles:)

Anyone willing to give up a King Arthur chassis for it?

[GSR 800]

Thanks for that. Didn't bought yet. I'm wondering does the hornby patriot class use a ringfield motor? I've seen the 3 poles upgraded to 5 pole with impressive results. I've just ordered 5 pole armature to swatch out on another old loco.

 

When I bought a patriot and a Scot(to convert) I found both had problems with gears not meshing properly, and poor pulling power

[roxyguy]

When I bought a patriot and a Scot(to convert) I found both had problems with gears not meshing properly, and poor pulling power

 

Thanks for that. I take they were Mainline? Might just burst the purse strings and get a bachy one. . .

[GSR 800]

No, actually they were the more modern Hornby ones.

[roxyguy]

No, actually they were the more modern Hornby ones.

 

JAYSUS. Bit off topic here but has anyone had problems with the Bachmann Wolly (k class) Have some and they just seem to be terrible runners, loud, not smooth, derails, just awful for a modern loco.

[BosKonay]

I only have the Murphy version and they are all a joy. Great runners, fine pullers.

[roxyguy]

I only have the Murphy version and they are all a joy. Great runners, fine pullers.

 

Strange, I have a murphy one and the tender usually derails,especially on bends. Very noisy runner. I'm sure there is a fix but I'm not the most technically minded. . .

[Riversuir226]

My one is in the cripple siding with motion gear problems......

[roxyguy]

My one is in the cripple siding with motion gear problems......

 

I suspect gear problems too, hence the noise

[GSR 800]

The problem with mine was that the pony truck keeps derailing. Very annoying.

Edited February 6, 2016 by GSR 800

[GSR 800]

Thought originally that it was the tight bends on the layout so they were replaced with larger radius track, but the problems persist

[Riversuir226]

Thought originally that it was the tight bends on the layout so they were replaced with larger radius track, but the problems persist

 

Check the wheel spacing, mine used to do that but adjusted the spacing and she ran grand till the other problem above started.

[GSR 800]

Check the wheel spacing, mine used to do that but adjusted the spacing and she ran grand till the other problem above started.

 

Thanks for the advice, it's working well now.

[GSR 800]

I bought a Flying Scotsman 10 years ago, and the photo was of a superb looking thing altogether. What turned up was a mess, with the front bogie hanging off like a dislodged testicle.

 

I pretty much put that in the feedback, and oddly enough, he wasn't keen to rectify the issue. It's still in a "dysfunction" state

I'm sorry lads,I know this I kind of old but this just cracks me up

I laughed so much I broke ventus!

Edited October 1, 2016 by GSR 800

[Richard EH]

Hi all,

 

I submitted the text below to New Irish Lines which Alan kindly published in the previous issue, however it's also of interest to this group as well, I'm sure.

 

The article in NiL in Volume 7, No.3 included a very interesting article on coaches transferred to the NCC. Reference was included to LMS coaches volume 3 by Jenkinson and Essery which includes the diagram numbers and scale drawings for some of the coaches transferred to the NCC as a result of the loss of coaches in the war. I've managed to obtain a copy of this via the interlibrary lending service and it does include some drawings and details of these all third vehicles. The thought occurred that these vehicles would be a straightforward NCC vehicle to model based on the various versions of Airfix/Dapol/Mainline or Hornby LMS coach.

 

The one that seems to match is Hornby all third R4657 to diagram 1906A (the a appears to refer to whether the compartments were smoking or not so doesn't indicate any particular difference to the bodyshell). Hornby released this model in early 2015 and whilst it is pricey, at £35 - 40 it would appear to be perfect for the role of modelling NCC No's 169, 170, 183-189, 194-197.

 

A review of 'Diesel Dawn' would appear to indicate that 188 of this batch was rebuilt as MPD trailer 535 and 195 was rebuilt as MPD trailer 536 so they had a long life - there's a couple of photos on page 143 and in colour 173.

 

Does anyone have any decent photos of these vehicles at any point in their service career from which we can glean a few livery clues? I guess when first transferred it may have been as simple as adding NCC to the LMS, and later they'd have gone into UTA green as part of their career in MED's

 

Cheers for now.

 

Richard.

[jhb171achill]

I haven't got comprehensive livery details per livery but what I can say is this:

 

1. At least one LMS "transplant" simply had its new NCC number roughly painted over its old LMS one, but otherwise ran briefly in rather tired looking LMS livery until repainted UTA green. I don't know its identity but I've seen a picture of it.

 

2. NCC livery per se had distinct differences from LMS livery in Britain. Leaving aside detail differences on locomotives and wagons for now, and sticking to carriages, in post-war times most NCC coaches newly painted (and there weren't that many!) had no lining if they were of older designs. This also applied to narrow gauge stock.

 

3. In later NCC period in general, there was no LMS crest applied. Some earlier stock shows no sign of crests either.

 

4. Lettering was always "LMS NCC" rather than just "LMS" as on British examples.

 

5. Obviously, standard LMS shade maroon was always used, and where lining was applied it conformed to normal English LMS patterns.

 

6. It is probable that most of the stuff brought in after the war from England, therefore, was plain maroon with LMS NCC markings and number in standard NCC style, and no lining. I cannot say that there weren't exeptions - there may have been - but before a couple of years had passed, they were being repainted into UTA green as fast as they could anyhow.

 

Hope that's helpful.

[BSGSV]

There's a picture in Nigel Mundy's collection of 385 (ex-184) taken at Antrim 28/10/67. UTA green, opposite side to the one in Des Coakham's book. No horizontal stripe apparent, just numbers and symbol.

[jhb171achill]

Generally, the UTA applied a single line along the waist of one inch straw coloured line thinly edged both sides in red to loco hauled coaches.

 

No railcars ever had this lining. They were plain green. But a few loco hauled coaches didn't have lining either.

 

Incidentally, this is not to be confused with the yellow (not straw) and separate red lines used by the RPSI. This was purposely designed (by meself, if truth be told) to look UTA-esque but not be exact, as none of the RPSI's Whitehead set ever ran in UTA livery.

Edited December 24, 2016 by jhb171achill

[Dhu Varren]

I haven't got comprehensive livery details per livery but what I can say is this:

 

1. At least one LMS "transplant" simply had its new NCC number roughly painted over its old LMS one, but otherwise ran briefly in rather tired looking LMS livery until repainted UTA green. I don't know its identity but I've seen a picture of it.

 

2. NCC livery per se had distinct differences from LMS livery in Britain. Leaving aside detail differences on locomotives and wagons for now, and sticking to carriages, in post-war times most NCC coaches newly painted (and there weren't that many!) had no lining if they were of older designs. This also applied to narrow gauge stock.

 

3. In later NCC period in general, there was no LMS crest applied. Some earlier stock shows no sign of crests either.

 

4. Lettering was always "LMS NCC" rather than just "LMS" as on British examples.

 

5. Obviously, standard LMS shade maroon was always used, and where lining was applied it conformed to normal English LMS patterns.

 

6. It is probable that most of the stuff brought in after the war from England, therefore, was plain maroon with LMS NCC markings and number in standard NCC style, and no lining. I cannot say that there weren't exeptions - there may have been - but before a couple of years had passed, they were being repainted into UTA green as fast as they could anyhow.

 

Hope that's helpful.

 

There is a picture of ex LMS coach 14102 still in LMS livery in 1950, in Mark Kennedy's 'The LMS in Ireland' on P79. It carries the NCC number 24. Ratio Kits do a model kit of this exact coach, which also happens to be exactly the same as NCC number 25. Apart from the bogies, the picture in the book is exactly what the Ratio kit looks like, but at some point, under the UTA, all the beading below the top waist beading was removed. The ends were also replaced with straight matchboarded ends.

These coaches were built in 1908, purchased from BR in 1948, and were still in service in 1964. The official withdrawal date is not known to me.

Edited December 28, 2016 by Dhu Varren

[Dhu Varren]

There is a picture of ex LMS coach 14102 still in LMS livery in 1950, in Mark Kennedy's 'The LMS in Ireland' on P79. It carries the NCC number 24. Ratio Kits do a model kit of this exact coach, which also happens to be exactly the same as NCC number 25. Apart from the bogies, the picture in the book is exactly what the Ratio kit looks like, but at some point, under the UTA, all the beading below the top waist beading was removed. The ends were also replaced with straight matchboarded ends.

These coaches were built in 1908, purchased from BR in 1948, and were still in service in 1964. The official withdrawal date is not known to me.

 

There is a picture in Desmond Coakham's 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' on P94 of NCC number 24 after the rebuild mentioned above, but in UTA green. There is also, on P93 a picture of NCC number 22 in rebuilt form, but still in LMS livery. The kit produced by Ratio for an all 1st coach is almost identical to number 22, and certainly would be a suitable donor for an NCC/UTA version.

The sides for Ratio coaches used to be, and maybe still are, available on their own for cut & shut projects. Just contact Ratio direct.

[jhb171achill]

The UTA had a habit of re-panelling older coaches, particularly of NCC origin, with flat sheets of plywood, later aluminium sheeting. This resulted in many carriages losing their distinctive style of beading once "UTA-ised" and repainted green. In the 1960s, this included round-cornered windows with rubber sealed surrounds, like several the RPSI got.

[Richard EH]

There is a picture in Desmond Coakham's 'Irish Broad Gauge Carriages' on P94 of NCC number 24 after the rebuild mentioned above, but in UTA green. There is also, on P93 a picture of NCC number 22 in rebuilt form, but still in LMS livery. The kit produced by Ratio for an all 1st coach is almost identical to number 22, and certainly would be a suitable donor for an NCC/UTA version.

The sides for Ratio coaches used to be, and maybe still are, available on their own for cut & shut projects. Just contact Ratio direct.

 

Thanks for the replies, all! I've a copy of the LMS in Ireland, one of the Midland Railway Ratio kits is added to my birthday list....!

 

Richard.