Kingsbridge - paint shop

[Noel]

Training experiments continue for newbie to airbrush. Three more wagons with light weathering. Nothing like this BR brake van ran on CIE network, but I just like the look of it.

 

 

 

These were done last week - 6xLima vans, beat wagon, mineral wagon, 2xBachmann vans

 

Not too happy with 3D printing results on the two new beat wagons by the platform. They just about survive the 'duck test' but I won't be assembling anymore.

 

First time I sprayed railmatch primer which is a sort of yellow tint cream colour. Didn't like using it, prefer Halfords primer from can. The texture of the 3D surface didn't help. Mind you using Halfords is almost like setting off a fire extinguisher its so powerful. Need plenty of distance and rapid steady movement of can. These 3D prints were disappointing, especially the doors. Weathering pending on these. Ughhh!

 

So far I have found three sources for corrugated open beat wagons, Leslie's Provincial Wagons kit, IFM's RTR, and these Valve Design 3D bodies which fit on Dapol 10ft chassis. I hope to complete Leslie's kit in the next week or so.

 

 

Anyway have had loads of fun experimenting with airbrush, made tons of major boo-boos, and clogged it up a few times. But finally figuring out how to keep it flowing smoothly and hopefully finding different methods of applying the paint, learning about times between coats, how long to leave the brush before the nozzle starts to dry, tricks for clearing the brush without dismantling it completely, etc. There is so much to learn, but just doing it again and again making mistakes and retrying has been almost addictive.

 

First time I used the airbrush it took me nearly 25mins to clean it when finished, now down to a 3-5 mins. Discovered the hard way different acrylic paint manufacturers seem to need quite different levels of acrylic thinners, and work best with their own thinners. Tamiya acrylics seem to need very little thinners for airbrush, or it goes on too thin like water.

 

Next will be an attempt to respray some coaching stock in early CIE B&T livery. Masking!!!

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel
Typo due lexdysia

[David Holman]

Air brushes need patience and practice - I still have to psyche myself up to get my one out and most of the time stick to automotive rattle spray cans. Seems to me that preparation and cleaning up time for an airbrush far exceed the actual time spent painting! However, there are things [like weathering] where nothing else works as well. I have an old loco body that I use for practising before I do any proper work.

A couple of good books on the subject are the definitive 'Art of Weathering' by Martin Welch and the more recent 'Handbook of Painting & Lining' by Ian Rathbone - both Wild Swann.

Just keep at it Noel - you already show a good sense of subtlety and that is half the battle.

[Noel]

Hornby Bredin!!! Ok first coach respray attempt into Black'n'Tan livery. Last time I did this it was 1972 but used a paint brush! Decided to use some old Hornby Stanier coaches as training guinea pigs and if it went ok they might pass off as Bredin look-a-likes for hauling behind my B&T 141s. Lots of experimenting with test sheets of plastic, different thinner ratios, trail mixes for a passable tan colour, and a whole load of mistakes, and paint all over the place, but you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs first! I don't know why but I was rather nervous beforehand about wreaking the coaches and/or the airbrush. Anyway its a first step . . .

 

Dismantle old Hornby ex-LMS Stanier coach

 

A doze of Halfords plastic grey primer

 

Airbrush area behind where white strip will be then reverse mask

 

Mask ready to airbrush black on window level and roof

 

Black airbrushed on

 

Remove masking to reveal white stripe - "Brandenburg Division" livery - ready for tan/orange band

 

Masked up for airbrushing tan/orange band below windows - Tamiya orange + brown mix

 

Masking removed with a degree of trepidation and anxiety - wondering would it have worked?

 

Ready for light weathering, then re-install glazing, under frames and bogies (already painted and weathered), some numbers, and then seal with a matt varnish spray can.

 

Loads of stuff went wrong along the way, and made some big boo-boos, but really loving the early learning process.

 

Next - attempt weather a B&T 141

 

PS: Used Tamiya acrylic paints and Tamiya acrylic thinners

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[jhb171achill]

With such a hotch potch of carriages in a typical CIE train in the 60s and 70s, a carriage like this will look very well sandwiched in among laminates, Cravens, Park Royals and Bredins - and the odd wooden coach.

[burnthebox]

Well Noel, hats off to you lad, you seem to have made a dam good job of that, of course there'll be mistakes, but practice makes perfect, well done, btw maybe show some items / pics of mistakes, for future aficionados !!! Nobody's perfect.

BTB

[RobertRoche]

Excellent looking spray job!

[popeye]

Looks very neat, well done.

When i use masking tape there is always some paint gets under the tape.

[JasonB]

Lovely paint job Noel,very crisp.

[Noel]

Thanks guys. Here's a better pic in daylight. It was a relief when I pulled the masking off. Wasn't sure what to expect, but was anticipating the need for some touching up, but alas model masking tape seems to have good sealing properties. Used 2mm tape for the white strip as its closest to 6" scale height. Was careful to try and keep the airbrush perpendicular to the masking tape edges so as not to blow paint up and under. On 3rd and 4th coats I risked a little upward spray to get the underside of the window edges covered and underside of the roof drip rail, but thankfully the 1st and 2nd coats seemed to have created a nice little seal with the edge of the masking tape preventing bleed upwards.

 

 

If there is one thing I personally have had to learn more than anything else, it is 'patience'. All my life I used to run up and down stairs, across car parks and down corridores rushing to get things done. Not with model painting. I'm dying to pop this on the layout, but will have to wait for weathering and varnishing, new wheels, and passengers.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[David Holman]

Indeed Noel. Forever telling myself model making is not a race. Don't always listen though!

These days, always try to stop while things are going well. So many times, the last job needs doing again next time.

Great work with the airbrush.

[jhb171achill]

Excellent work.

[JasonB]

Thanks guys. Here's a better pic in daylight. It was a relief when I pulled the masking off. Wasn't sure what to expect, but was anticipating the need for some touching up, but alas model masking tape seems to have good sealing properties. Used 2mm tape for the white strip as its closest to 6" scale height. Was careful to try and keep the airbrush perpendicular to the masking tape edges so as not to blow paint up and under. On 3rd and 4th coats I risked a little upward spray to get the underside of the window edges covered and underside of the roof drip rail, but thankfully the 1st and 2nd coats seemed to have created a nice little seal with the edge of the masking tape preventing bleed upwards.

 

 

If there is one thing I personally have had to learn more than anything else, it is 'patience'. All my life I used to run up and down stairs, across car parks and down corridores rushing to get things done. Not with model painting. I'm dying to pop this on the layout, but will have to wait for weathering and varnishing, new wheels, and passengers.

Its a great feeling when you pull the tape back and realise there's been no paint bleed,very satisfying.

[John-r]

Hi Noel, that is a lovely crisp job, very well done.your airbrushing is coming on great.

I think you have put a few myths to bed about airbrushing for novices like myself,

Basically just give it a go .what I mean is its one thing an expert saying it's easy

But you showed it can be. Thanks. John

[Noel]

Indeed Noel. Forever telling myself model making is not a race. Don't always listen though! These days, always try to stop while things are going well. So many times, the last job needs doing again next time. Great work with the airbrush.

 

Thanks David. Your dead right about not rushing. I've taken a breather today (literally).

 

Excellent work.

 

Cheers JB, your very kind. It was your encouragement and suggestion these Hornby's would pass as Bredin's that set me off

 

Its a great feeling when you pull the tape back and realise there's been no paint bleed,very satisfying.

 

Absolutely - a huge relief. I spent ages on the masking tape and used the shaft of the lid of a bic biro like a soft blade to stretch and push the tape down over relief features on the body such as door handles, door panel lines, etc.

 

Hi Noel, that is a lovely crisp job, very well done.your airbrushing is coming on great. I think you have put a few myths to bed about airbrushing for novices like myself, Basically just give it a go .what I mean is its one thing an expert saying it's easy. But you showed it can be. Thanks. John

 

Thanks John. Glad you found my beginners walk useful. More than anything I'm really enjoying the beginning of this journey of discovery, adventure, and even a little mis-adventure.

 

The other night the airbrush started pulsing when I switched to the 0.5m needle/nozzle for wider spray because I hadn't cleaned it properly after the previous spray with thicker paint. And doing the white on a loco body I had the air pressure too low and it spat and blurted out blobs of paint, but was able to tidy it up with a cotton bud soaked in water - another advantage of acrylics is tidying up mistakes.

 

My biggest gaff of the last few days was spraying black when the air brush became so clogged up no air was coming through it at all - bummer I thought I must have completely bunged up the entire innards of the airbrush - BUT, no it wasn't clogged, I'd forgotten to turn the compressor on and I had started using the air left in the bottle from a previous session - air ran out and i though brush was blocked, flick switch on and I felt a twit when the paint started flowing again.

 

You are right John, I spent months avoiding 'give it a go', but finally jumped in. No matter what goes wrong nobody will have died after all!

 

Btw, a 'thank you' is due to Richie (glenderg) for his advice and demo two years ago. It demystified a few myths as you said John, and Richie is a master with an airbrush.

[Glenderg]

Ha! A few years ago I had one of those cheap Chinese compressors and equally bad twin pack airbrushes with the blue inlay. Inspired by the lads here, gorgeous George in particular, I started messing with old br stock.

 

At the time I'd built up an enormous collection of enamel paints, and the drying time and noxious fumes necessitated a move to acrylics, vallejo in particular.

 

The drying time is similar, in that all paint has to plasticise, but quick bodges, fixing screw ups, and whacking with a hairdryer all help.

 

I've no doubt that had I the time to offer that freebie again, it would be both more refined and expansive. Possibly during the summer, but min/max 4 required

 

Put simply, you have to buy the best masking tape, clean your equipment to a surgical standard, and be patient. Immensely satisfying part of the hobby.

 

R.

[Glenderg]

I know I'm doing a JM on it by responding to me own post, but having read the thread fully, a few pointers are warranted.

 

Tamiya paint has an exceptionally high alcohol content, and if not dry) plasticised) will peel like sunburn skin when the tape comes off.

 

Two ways to absolutely prevent this. Wash the model in fairy liquid etc. Greasy models are a no-go. Even a thin coat of primer is preferred to a factory surface. Key with 0000 wire wool if primers not available.

 

Halfords stuff is appalling. One minute it's misty snow, the next snotty ice cream. Hmg produce a primer for brass, sold by Cork outfit mithril.ie that is exceptional and they provided me with technical specs to back it up.

 

For more standard work, army painter make coloured primers, but their white is a thing of beauty. Sets in about 5 minutes and available from the gaming lads on jervis St in Dublin.

 

If you want to prime white, mask the stripes, and do orange and black later (best method), there is no better alternative IMHO.

 

Cheap compressors from Taiwan are as good as expensive ones. The pulsing myth is just that. When it begins to fail, after about 300 hours, the internal rubber seals loose integrity, and its just a paper weight. Or something you donate to the MRSI...

 

There are several low tack tapes available from builders providers etc. After years of use, green frog tape is excellent for large area coverage.

 

All of the above is said only to prevent "the expansion of your vocabulary" as Tony Wright would opine.

 

They are merely tips based on the inordinate amount of mistakes I've made, in the interest that any other punter may avoid. I'm not Martyn Welch or Tim Shackleton, nor claim to be. I'm sure others have their "go to" methods.

 

Looking forward to you getting stuck into washes and powders next noel.

 

R

[Junctionmad]

I know I'm doing a JM on it by responding to me own post, but having read the thread fully, a few pointers are warranted.

 

Tamiya paint has an exceptionally high alcohol content, and if not dry) plasticised) will peel like sunburn skin when the tape comes off.

 

Two ways to absolutely prevent this. Wash the model in fairy liquid etc. Greasy models are a no-go. Even a thin coat of primer is preferred to a factory surface. Key with 0000 wire wool if primers not available.

 

Halfords stuff is appalling. One minute it's misty snow, the next snotty ice cream. Hmg produce a primer for brass, sold by Cork outfit mithril.ie that is exceptional and they provided me with technical specs to back it up.

 

For more standard work, army painter make coloured primers, but their white is a thing of beauty. Sets in about 5 minutes and available from the gaming lads on jervis St in Dublin.

 

If you want to prime white, mask the stripes, and do orange and black later (best method), there is no better alternative IMHO.

 

Cheap compressors from Taiwan are as good as expensive ones. The pulsing myth is just that. When it begins to fail, after about 300 hours, the internal rubber seals loose integrity, and its just a paper weight. Or something you donate to the MRSI... ��

 

There are several low tack tapes available from builders providers etc. After years of use, green frog tape is excellent for large area coverage.

 

All of the above is said only to prevent "the expansion of your vocabulary" as Tony Wright would opine.

 

They are merely tips based on the inordinate amount of mistakes I've made, in the interest that any other punter may avoid. I'm not Martyn Welch or Tim Shackleton, nor claim to be. I'm sure others have their "go to" methods.

 

Looking forward to you getting stuck into washes and powders next noel.

 

R

 

some very good tips here, Ill be happy when I get to 300 hours of compressor time !!!!

[Noel]

Looking forward to you getting stuck into washes and powders next noel.

 

For washes do you favour enamel wash/powder mixes, acrylic/powder or water colours?

 

I've often wondered if watercolours fixed when dry with matt varnish would work. It might give loads of time to adjust and get it right doing things like highlighting panel lines, brick work, etc. Does anybody ever apply powders dry and then fix with either varnish or even hair spray? I've seen some you tubes with decal fix mixed with powders.

 

Some interesting videos here on washes http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/76775-product-spotlight-humbrol-enamel-washes-weathering-powders/

Edited March 25, 2017 by Noel

[murrayec]

Hi Noel

 

That's a fantastic job, very expertly done

 

Eoin

[Noel]

Hi Noel. That's a fantastic job, very expertly done. Eoin

 

[ blush ] Thanks Eoin. Your encouragement is much appreciated and coming from you I feel quite humbled. Two more in the pipeline. A little mask bleed this time on door handles, but the tan/orange should cover it. The reverse masking of the white band worked a dream once again. I couldn't believe it when I pulled the 2mm masking off to reveal the white band. It was somebody on the forum who recommended this method, can't remember who, but thanks, a great tip.

 

 

Today I used Humbrol matt acrylic varnish (spray can) on the other coach and the wagons I had weathered over the past few weeks. I was going to try railmatch's matt varnish through the airbrush but unsure how much to thin it. Over on RMweb and phoning Howes models recommend using it straight out of the bottle but its viscosity is like honey, and colour almost milky, so stuck with the humbrol spray can which went on really easily.

 

PS: I was tempted to stop with this attractive looking military grey 'branderburg' division livery just for fun

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[Noel]

Almost finished the first coach. Just weathering left to do, and a few tweaks on the ends, but I may keep this one pristine. She is riding a little high (as did all Hornby's of that vintage) so will have to get the bogies closer and perhaps smaller diameter wheels needed. Waiting for decals to arrive.

 

 

Platform 3 Woodvale Junction

 

Depth of field effect to blur the far end

 

Its a start, lots more to learn, lots more to do.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[jhb171achill]

That looks absolutely fantastic!

 

There were a few GNR coaches, built about 1954, which looked not unlike that and which survived into UTA and CIE days. Obviously they were only three years old when the GNR was dissolved, and thus could have been expected to last until the mid or late 70s. They didn't - the timber used was very poor and no match for the rock solid GSWR wooden stock forty years older. But a few did last into black'n'tan days (and a few in UTA livery too).

 

It also looks like one Bredin first class vehicle (I think it was no. 1900?).

 

That's an exceptionally neat paint job.

[Junctionmad]

That's an exceptionally neat paint job.

 

Noel, is nothing, if not precise. I think he'd burn it before he'd allow a wobbly stripe

[burnthebox]

Fantastic Noel, job well done, & not in any way taking from your skill as demonstated in spraying / respraying / weathering, personally I would be very happy to have that on my layout as I'm very much the TWO FOOT RULE railway enthusiast & enjoy playing trains.

Mind telling me what was the make, code, RAL etc. of that Black paint you used.

Paul

[richrua]

That's a very very sharp job. Well done Noel.

[Noel]

Thanks guys for the kind encouragement. I bet you its like golf though, one good hole but then a few bogies to humble one!

 

Mind telling me what was the make, code, RAL etc. of that Black paint you used.

 

Hi Paul.

 

Black = Tamiya Acrylic Dull Black XF-1

White = Tamiya Acrylic Dull White XF-2

Tan = Mix of Tamiya Acrylic Orange X-6 + Tamiya Acrylic BrownXF-64 (approx 3-4%)

 

I'll put up a visual list of the stuff I used in another post.

 

Noel

[richrua]

Hi noel did you ever find out a good green paint for bredin type coaches in flying snail livery ?

[Noel]

As BTB (Paul) asked what paints I used I thought I'd post a list of the stuff I used on my recent air brush adventures. Remember I am a total beginner so these are not recommendations, not necessarily the best options, just what I personally have used so far to paint track, weather rolling stock, and respray some coaches. I have almost zero experience milage, but just for information purposes. Suggest looking at some the threads below for info from experienced folk. The airbrush and compressor I used was on the recommendation of Richie and very happy with it. This is NOT a tutorial, there are loads of brilliant youtube videos showing different methods of air brushing. There doesn't seem to be one right way, just whatever works for each individual. Go for it.

 

Some useful Resource threads:

• IRM - What Air Brush
  
• IRM - What paint for what airbrush thread
  
• RMWeb - First steps at spraying advice - excellent thread
  
• Bartsharp Training and Review Videos
  
• 
  

 

Stuff I've started to learn how to use so far

 

Plus

• Primer - Halfords grey plastic primer spray can (300ml) (used in outdoor shed) - love this stuff, easy to use and great consistent finish that does not hide surface detail on models
  
• Safety - Breathing mask + good ventilation. Ideally one should have a small spray booth box preferably with a fan and filter. I didn't find acrylics that smelly, but I used all spray cans either out doors or in shed with door open. Halfords is great but it stinks of solvent so no way use in the house. I air brushed indoors with a mask.
  
• Acyrlic Thinners - Use a thinner designed for each vendors acrylic paints (i.e. tamiya thinners with tamiya acrylics, railmatch with railmatch, etc).
  
• Cleaning - Water is great for cleaning airbrush after acrylics, and methylated spirits for stuff that won't shift. Cotton buds are brilliant.
  

 

 

Air brush dismantled for cleaning - Apologies if this makes it look complicated - It is NOT, there are only three controls (maroon call outs), and to be honest all you really use is the trigger. Push the trigger down to start air flow (no paint), and then pull back gradually to release paint into the air stream. The more you pull back the more paint. The adjust screw at the end just acts as a limiter to restrict how bar back you can pull the trigger.

 

Compressor with 3L reservoir means motor is off more than it is one. This model is very quiet.

 

Compresser water trap + pressure gauge - lower pressure seems to suit acrylics

 

Cleaning Pot - traps airborne particles in water when cleaning out airbrush. Essential piece of kit. Doubles up as a useful airbrush holder.

 

Acrylic Paints and Acrylic Thinners used

 

Tamiya X-6 (and small quantity of XF-64) seems to yield good tan/orange colour options. Possibly a drop or two of red might might be needed for some era's shade of tan. The MM cravens orange band have a little more red in them than my coach example. In the future I will try and find what combinations of Vallejo colours do the same.

 

For now I'm planning to stick with Acrylic paints: a) because its what I've got used to, b) its water based rather than solvent based so better for my lungs and smells, c) seems to dry a little faster than enamels, d) I'm happy with the finish, and e) the big one, it easier to clean airbrush after a session.

 

Times: These may be longer than needed, but being cautious I've waited 48hr after can spraying Halfords plastic grey primer before masking or spraying acrylics over it, 15-30mins between coats of acrylics (i.e. same colour), and 48hr drying/curing before masking over acrylics for other paint colours, and 2-3 days before spraying vanish (i.e. to avoid any risk of milky misting).

 

WARNING: BTW, keep varnish sprays a million miles away from windows of your rolling stock to avoid opaque misting of windows. Don't even spray a model in the same room as your other rolling stock. The windows on one side of one of my MM locos that was 10ft away from where I was spraying went milky. Just shows you how much invisible material is in the air - so avoid breathing it!!! When varnishing locos or coaches either remove the glazing/windows, or mask over them with either tape or maskol.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel
multiple typos and corrections

[Noel]

Hi noel did you ever find out a good green paint for bredin type coaches in flying snail livery ?

 

Ah! I asked the same question on your thread. Sorry haven't yet, but that will be my next coaching target - a few green flying snail coaches.

[jhb171achill]

Unlike laminates and Park Royals, Bredins (and their early CIE copies) were old enough to have initially worn the darker green with broader light green stripes. Do, two green livery variations are possible for them, pre- and post-1955.

 

Needless to say, they were never unpainted silver.

[burnthebox]

I know this HOBBY can get expensive but for the colour GREEN that's been asked about on here, this thing is in an IRISH GREEN ! Now you don't have to buy the thing ! to get the code, go on their web site & you'll get the code, I'm no suggesting h is the colour that's been asked about, but maybe !!

 

https://www.google.ie/search?sclient=tablet-gws&q=porsche+irish+green+paint+code&oq=Porsche+Irish+Green+Paint+c&gs_l=tablet-gws.1.0.0.2027.9169.0.10766.8.3.0.2.2.0.358.358.3-1.1.0....0...1c.1.64.tablet-gws..5.3.387.R-JTDF2Ln9o#imgrc=SN3jXTkFeiXpoM:&spf=17

[jhb171achill]

It's not a million miles away, burnthebox, but maybe a Porsche would require even a bigger budget than a model railway!

 

[popeye]

That looks super. Are the seats white? or is it just the light.

When i sprayed a coach the paint bled under the tape, i think because it

was enamel paint mixed with thinners, so the acrylic may work better.

[Noel]

That looks super. Are the seats white? or is it just the light.

 

Well spotted - Not white, but a rather bright Beige (eg. suede for first class) I was going to take them down a shade when I put pax inside but not sure now as I like the bright cabin, might paint the corridor walls a timbre colour.

 

When i sprayed a coach the paint bled under the tape, i think because it was enamel paint mixed with thinners, so the acrylic may work better.

 

I've haven't sprayed enamels yet so I don't know what the differences in viscosity of thinned acrylic v thinned enamels is like. On the first few coats of black acrylic I thinned it too far much and it was very runny, so I kept the brush moving quicker to avoid a build up of fluid. On the subsequent coaches the black was thicker so it went on a lot easier. I didn't realise Tamiya acrylics needs only about 10-15% acrylic thinner, whereas railmatch needs about 40-50%!!!

 

On future projects I may try Vallejo acrylics as it seems to be preferred by many of the experienced folk, and a big attraction seems seems it is slower drying so allows more standing time within the air brush during session pauses when its in the holder. I understand there is an optional 'flow improver' fluid that you can mix with Vallejo that prevents the needle tip and nozzle drying as fast as other paints, especially Tamiya, but so far that hasn't caused me any grief - yet!

[David]

That looks super. Are the seats white? or is it just the light.

When i sprayed a coach the paint bled under the tape, i think because it

was enamel paint mixed with thinners, so the acrylic may work better.

 

Paint bleed is usually caused by badly stuck tape and/or spraying too wet. You may possibly be thinning the paint too much too. I recommend thinning enamels with white spirit. Thinners(cellulose I assume?) are too strong for enamels. Gloss paint makes bleed more likely due to the need for it to be sprayed wet in order to be gloss. From my experience I have found solvent based paints to be far superior to acrylic or water based paints.