Kingsbridge - paint shop

[Noel]

Great work Noel.. bit of a random idea and maybe to late.. but could you put the 121 on the MM 141 chassis and then use the athern under the C with new bogie sides.. would save a lot of work methinks!

 

Hi Mogul, thanks yes that was the original plan, but the MM 141 chassis is just too long for the 121 and won't fit in the body shell without a savage cut'n'shut through the middle, in addition to laterally cutting the metal chassis block to narrow it where the 121 body narrows at the cab joint. By contrast the Athearn SW1500 was a perfect fit by length and width once I cut away the two metal lugs at each end of the chassis. When I get around to adding the correct 121 bogie sides it should look better with wider bogies (i.e. less HO looking).

 

For the C class ironically the MM 141 chassis was a near perfect 'drop in' by length and width once I cut away 4mm metal from each end. I plan to change the bogie sides now that I've figured out how to retain the Bachmann bogie frames which act as gear box seals and host the NEM pockets.

 

Replacement bogie sides in preparation for both the C class and the 121. Fuel tanks also in 'plasticard' shop.

 

That's a mighty job! Front numbers a bit big as you said, but overall looks great.

 

Cheers Jonathan, the 121 is progressing slowly with chassis trails today. She's now ready for detailing and glazing, but I will probably 'play' trains for a bit before fitting the all the metal grab rails, etc. I'll pop a video on the layout thread later. The very early B&T 121s didn't have full length walkway rails like the original delivery models, rather just each side of the steps at the bonnet end. I'm debating weather to paint them original weathered tan, or black as per later B&T variants.

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[roxyguy]

That looks mega for sometime that was a 3D print. Fair play.

[DB JOE]

That really is a fantastic job on that 121 3D printed body..

[DB JOE]

the C class is excellent also

[Noel]

Video - Shapeways 3D CIE 121 class no B121 - Chassis trials no 2 - Athearn SW1500 chassis. Decals and gloss varnish or not?

[video=youtube;qN-gGLbZ2h4]

 

I won't get time to do any more work on the model until next week. Plan is to hopefully add guard and hand rails, lights, couplings, lamp mounts and lantern, glazing, replacement bogie sides, replacement fuel tank, etc.

 

Decals - I used a custom set of water slide transfers from Studio Scale Models. I was very tempted to apply them to the matt acrylic paint finish using humbrol decalfix and then seal with a matt varnish. But I did some trials applying decals on test pieces of painted plasticard with and without various gloss varnishes. Upon seeing how much better decals blended with gloss surfaces, I decided to go the conventional route and spray the whole model with two thin coats of humbrol acrylic gloss varnish, 24hr later applied the decals using humbro decalfix, and finally 24hr later two thin coats of humbrol acrylic matt varnish to dull it all down and make the weathering more visible again. There is no doubt the decals do blend better on a gloss surface with the edges of the transfers becoming completely invisible. I was concerned I might not get the matt finish back, but the humbrol matt did the trick admirably.

 

Ps: apologies for the poor camera movement. Tripod next time.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Noel

[jhb171achill]

That truly looks so good. Captures the era perfectly.

[Noel]

Time to start adding some detail bits'n'pieces to 121 class. Pic shows how well the Athearn SW1500 chassis fits with only the metal lugs at each ends of the chassis needing to be cut away with a mini drill rotary saw and internal mounts added. Plenty of spaces for speakers inside. Plan to replace the bogie sides and fuel tank this week. Won't add any hand rails until everything is finished for fear of bending them while handling. Will have to do windows before doing inside of cab.

 

After painting

 

Before painting

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[DiveController]

Time to start adding some detail bits'n'pieces to 121 class. Pic shows how well the Athearn SW1500 chassis fits with only the metal lugs at each ends of the chassis needing to be cut away with a mini drill rotary saw and internal mounts added. Plenty of spaces for speakers inside. Plan to replace the bogie sides and fuel tank this week. Won't add any hand rails until everything is finished for fear of bending them while handling. Will have to do windows before doing inside of cab.

 

After painting

 

Before painting

 

Neat job, Noel

[burnthebox]

Hi Noel, now to my Specksavers eyes that White line dos'nt look right, as it looks too big in places & uneven in other areas, & I've looked at the C class & the white lines on it looks perfect, I'm sure you can sort out the lines on the 121 without having to do too much other than getting the masking tape out & lining things up, as said I could be wrong,

Paul

[Noel]

Hi Noel, now to my Specksavers eyes that White line dos'nt look right, as it looks too big in places & uneven in other areas, & I've looked at the C class & the white lines on it looks perfect, I'm sure you can sort out the lines on the 121 without having to do too much other than getting the masking tape out & lining things up, as said I could be wrong,

Paul

 

Best this novice can manage I'm afraid on the undulating surface. But at least it looks like a duck from 2ft.

[burnthebox]

Best this novice can manage I'm afraid on the undulating surface. But at least it looks like a duck from 2ft.

Noel, if it looks good at the " duck " distance then that's all that matters, it's your layout & you enjoy it, at the end of the day it's called playing with trains,

Paul

[Warbonnet]

Noel, if it looks good at the " duck " distance then that's all that matters,

Paul

 

I find this term completely quackers to be honest...

[Noel]

Noel, if it looks good at the " duck " distance then that's all that matters, it's your layout & you enjoy it, at the end of the day it's called playing with trains,

Paul

 

Choo choo!

[burnthebox]

Now Noel, riddle me this one, how do you go about priming & painting wagons with the wheels, decals, & all the other stuff that comes with wagons, I've found nail varnish remover which works, with most decals, so reason I ask is I've got a number of wagons to turn from LMS, BR into irishsshish, taking the wheels off takes time... Lots, & it's no way easier putting them back on .....are there any shortcuts !

Paul

Edited May 10, 2017 by burnthebox

[Noel]

Now Noel, riddle me this one, how do you go about priming & painting wagons with the wheels, decals, & all the other stuff that comes with wagons, I've found nail varnish remover which works, with mist decals, so reason I ask is I've got a number of wagons to turn from LMS, BR into irishsshish, taking the wheels off takes time... Lots, & it's no way easier putting them back on .....are there any shortcuts !

Paul

 

Hi Paul. Forgive long winded reply. From my limited experience I have found it depends on the stock to be converted, and bare in mind I'm new to this so please bare with a big pinch of salt, and it is simply the way I have done it "so far", and not necessarily the best, a right or wrong method.

 

On some Bachmann BR wagons that were already plain grey or plain brown, all I had to do was spray the under frames with sleeper grime (no black chassis allowed), apply CIE broken wheel or flying snail decals using 'decal fix' which helps with matt finishes, and then gently weather the wagon bodies (sleeper grime for the grey wagons, frame dirt for the brown wagons), finishing with a coat of humbrol matt varnish from a rattle can. I now always remove the wheels first but that only takes a few seconds, but before that to avoid removing wheels, I used to plug a small paper template with slots between the wheels and under frame sides (i.e. to avoid spraying the wheel surfaces and generating future track dirt). Another reason I now remove the wheels is to hand paint the sides of them with sleeper grime (i.e. to get rid of the metal or black finish on RTR wagon wheels).

 

Other wagons and coaches I have simply sprayed Halfords plastic grey primer on them without removing factory paint, and then resprayed in desired colour, light weathering, decals on matt surface, and then matt varnish to seal. In some cases I have rubbed off protruding factory logos and thick lining using ultra fine sand paper before priming. Halfords is wonderful and can hide a multitude of sins.

 

On the two recent locos, for decals I played safe with convention, and applied gloss varnish after weathering, then applied the decals to the gloss surface, and the finished with matt varnish to seal and get the dull matt look back. Decals seem more prominent and numerous on locos and I like the way they appear seamless when applied onto a gloss finish which can be brought back to a matt or satin finish (i.e. no visible edges to the transfers nor colour variation). Hope that makes sense. Noel

[burnthebox]

Hi Noel & many thanks for that, it dos'nt look like there's a quick & short way to getting things done, espically where the wheels are concerned, I think I've got the decals thing sorted when it comes to removing them, but I'm going to do a primer on some the few wagons which still have albeit faint decals on them & see how things turn out...it's looking at the moment like I'll have to remove the wheels espically those which have past their sell by date & fit new ones...don't know why I'm rushing things as my layout is still in that hopeful area somewhere down the road....I'm just using my time playing with trains...!

Paul

[Noel]

Hi Noel & many thanks for that, it dos'nt look like there's a quick & short way to getting things done, espically where the wheels are concerned, I think I've got the decals thing sorted when it comes to removing them, but I'm going to do a primer on some the few wagons which still have albeit faint decals on them & see how things turn out...it's looking at the moment like I'll have to remove the wheels espically those which have past their sell by date & fit new ones...don't know why I'm rushing things as my layout is still in that hopeful area somewhere down the road....I'm just using my time playing with trains...!

Paul

 

I too enjoy (suffer) playing with trains too much. The one word I have had to learn more than anything else is 'patience'. The temptation to rush to the rails is ever present. On the advice of a pal I found having more than one project on the go helps by allowing for overlap (e.g. work on a project B step while waiting a day for project A to cure, etc).

[Noel]

Dilemma - I have prepared replacement bogies sides for recent SF C class project, but I am thinking of leaving the donor loco bogies in place because the SF ones look hideous compared to the quality of Bachmann or Hornby! Dilemma is put very poor looking but prototypically correct MV bogies, or leave the donor bogies because they look great despite being the wrong bogie sides. I just prefer the look of the wrong sides on the model. All the gubbins and stuff!

[popeye]

Just stick them on, it will always look wrong if you don't.

I thought my silver fox ones looked ok.

[DiveController]

It's your railway but to leave the GM bogies on there would to depart too far from the prototype. If they could not be replaced then the dilemma would be running quality versus looks ..... but they can ..... 2 cents. I suspect we'll see a finer bogie in time, in the style of ECM etc (fingers crossed)

[Mayner]

Dilemma - I have prepared replacement bogies sides for recent SF C class project, but I am thinking of leaving the donor loco bogies in place because the SF ones look hideous compared to the quality of Bachmann or Hornby! Dilemma is put very poor looking but prototypically correct MV bogies, or leave the donor bogies because they look great despite being the wrong bogie sides. I just prefer the look of the wrong sides on the model. All the gubbins and stuff!

 

You could always pretend CIE re-bogied 233 with a spare set of 141 bogies, there is a parallel with the Chicago Rock Island and Pacific which re-built some of its Alco FA units with power units and trucks (bogies) salvaged from scrapped wartime General Motors FT locomotives

[Noel]

Just stick them on, it will always look wrong if you don't.

 

Ok, that's clinched it and the visit of a WMRC member yesterday confirms same. I bow to sense.

[Noel]

Finally bit the bullet and very lightly weathered one of my B&T MM 141s. Just enough to get the shine off it as a first step with minimal risks. Boy I was scared I was going to ruin a lovely model. Used a bit of Railmatch sleeper grime, frame dirt and roof dirt.

 

Very light dusting to dull the loco down and get the shine off it. More to do in due course with exhaust and fuel tank.

 

Comparison side by side: Left very lightly dusted B181, Right pristine B165

 

Side by side: B181 + B121 look more compatible now that both have a light dusting

 

This time I experimented by leaving the walkway rails on, and just roughly masked the windows. If I matt varnish her to seal the weathering I will have to properly mask the windows to stop them going opaque (i.e. tape or maskol might be easier).

 

Next time on B141 I am going to try a wash using a lightish colour on the black body.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[burnthebox]

Well done Noel, looking great & as you've said taking your time is the best method, now tell me is that Railmatch dirt & grime enamel or acrylic, TIA

Paul

[jhb171achill]

Absolutely superb, and in keeping with the generally well-kept appearance of locos at this time.

 

Mind you, I once watched the up Westport roll into Claremorris (about 1970) and at the head of a pair of 141s was an example so dirty that I wondered for a moment if CIE had started painting the side orange bits in black, with just tan on the ends! It was, as they say in the north, "piggin'"!

 

The track it's sitting (above) looks equally realistic.

[Noel]

. . . now tell me is that Railmatch dirt & grime enamel or acrylic, TIA. Paul

Hi Paul. Cheers. I used Acrylic for everything so far including Railmatch, Tamiya and Vallejo Model Air. Noel

 

Absolutely superb, and in keeping with the generally well-kept appearance of locos at this time.

 

Mind you, I once watched the up Westport roll into Claremorris (about 1970) and at the head of a pair of 141s was an example so dirty that I wondered for a moment if CIE had started painting the side orange bits in black, with just tan on the ends! It was, as they say in the north, "piggin'"!

 

The track it's sitting (above) looks equally realistic.

Thanks JB. Wonder if 'piggin' the first hint of future doom and alien ICRs! Yes I remember similar tidy B&T stock back then. B141 and B165 are next in the queue.

[DiveController]

Looking very well now, Noel!

[Noel]

Just stick them on, it will always look wrong if you don't.

I thought my silver fox ones looked ok.

 

Ok, changing the bogies side on both B233 and B121.

 

B233 C Class - Cut GM bogies off the 141 chassis bogies and replaced with SF resin bogies sides (Metrovic C class). The MM/Bachmann bogie frames snap fit onto the bogie truck, act as a seal on the gear box, and host the NEM pocket.

 

B121 with GM bogies fitted - filed the SW1500 bogies flat and glued 3D printed GM 121 bogie sides on top

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[richrua]

Very nice job there Noel

[Noel]

Very nice job there Noel

 

Thanks Richrua.

Bogie frames reconstructed with resin C class bogie sides, and reinforced with gussets.

Ready for weathering then put humpty dumpty back together again.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[Noel]

New bogies sides on B233 and B121.

 

The Bachmann (Murphy Model) 141 chassis fits the SF kit like a glove and runs as you would expect from any centre drive chassis. Planning two more of these with 141 donors, one in 'Green' and one in 'all black' livery with the yellow flash.

 

The Athearn SW1500 chassis less obvious now inside the 121 body shell with GM bogies and change of fuel tank

 

A little fettling was needed on B121 body mounts to ensure bogie sides did not foul the steps. The surfaces of 3D bogie sides for 121 were very smooth, and a different material to that used on the body shell (i.e. no evidence of 3D, more like IMP).

 

Question please, what do folks use to prime wire before painting? (i.e. for hand rails and grab rails).

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[DiveController]

Ah, yes! Thats looks way better, Noel. Getting rid of the american bogies from the Athearn chassis makes a huge difference to 121! Same with the C class. I think the black livery with yellow warning panel is a great choice of livery. Looking forward to seeing that!

[DiveController]

C233 and B233 with her Maybach engine are other numbering options, C203 had a yellow bufferbeam

Edited May 23, 2017 by DiveController

[Noel]

Black'n'Tan fleet visit paint shop in preparation for light weathering - B141, B165, B188

 

Basically I just take the bogies off, mask the wheels and pick ups, then lightly mask the windows just in case of over spray.

 

B181 was weathered last week as a test for these. I have to renumber another B&T 141 to B142 and that'll make five of these babies.

Edited July 21, 2017 by Noel

[Past-Avenue]

Hi noel how do you remove the numbers from a mm 141/071 to add different ones?, cant wait to see the finished result as the pristine model is lovely and weathering it will bring it to a whole new level. Great work your doing