Irish railway lamps

[Wexford70]

Hi folks,

Looking for a reliable source of info on locomotive / wagon lamps as well as others used on level crossings etc. 

Were lamps on the Irish network substantially different to the those used in the UK?

Where were these lamps made?

[Midland Man]

Hells kitchion has a lot of a railway lamps but the only lamp I know that they both country's used is the humble shunting lamp.

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Wexford70 said:

Hi folks,

Looking for a reliable source of info on locomotive / wagon lamps as well as others used on level crossings etc. 

Were lamps on the Irish network substantially different to the those used in the UK?

Where were these lamps made?

They were much the same, Wexford70. The only real difference was that usually they had company initials stamped or stencilled on them. The GNR tended to paint locomotive numbers on them too - they presumably tried to keep a set with each loco.

[Wexford70]

3 hours ago, jhb171achill said:

They were much the same, Wexford70. The only real difference was that usually they had company initials stamped or stencilled on them. The GNR tended to paint locomotive numbers on them too - they presumably tried to keep a set with each loco.

Great to know. What is the difference between a guard's van lamp and a loco lamp?

Did they burn paraffin?

[minister_for_hardship]

59 minutes ago, Wexford70 said:

Great to know. What is the difference between a guard's van lamp and a loco lamp?

Did they burn paraffin?

Depends what you mean by guards van lamp, the handlamp carried by the guard or the lamp fitted to or carried by the van.

If it's the former, the loco lamp is similar to a handlamp only a lot bigger with a fitting to slip over a lamp iron rather than a handle at the rear. Yes they burned paraffin, but very early lamps would have burned colza oil, a form of vegetable oil, before the large scale extraction of petroleum oil. EDIT a minority of railways here used acetylene loco headlamps; Tralee and Dingle, Schull & Skibbereen, possibly others.

6 hours ago, Wexford70 said:

Hi folks,

Looking for a reliable source of info on locomotive / wagon lamps as well as others used on level crossings etc. 

Were lamps on the Irish network substantially different to the those used in the UK?

Where were these lamps made?

Lamps were either bought in from a specialist contractor or made in-house in the railways own workshops. Inchicore would have had a sheet metal shop and would have made most of the loco and handlamps from scratch themselves.

The outer cast iron lamp cases for LC lamps and signal lamps were cast in Inchicore, the lamps that went inside these were a bought in product as far as I know. LM&RS (Lamp Manuf & Railway Supplies) London were a big supplier of these.

Edited April 22, 2020 by minister_for_hardship

[Wexford70]

Thanks for this guys, very helpful. 

[minister_for_hardship]

Basically both Britain and here had the same set of basic types. As jhb says they were usually, though not always, marked with the owning company initials but these markings could be buried under coats of paint.

[Galteemore]

Lamp code meanings broadly equivalent too? Thus F6 No 42 is on some kind of trip working....pic from Ernie’s archive...

[minister_for_hardship]

[Galteemore]

Thank you. Much simpler than the GB system. I’ve just been installing lamp irons on the F6 I’m building and did wonder why it only had four in total! 

Edited April 22, 2020 by Galteemore

[minister_for_hardship]

5 minutes ago, Galteemore said:

Thank you. Much simpler than the GB system. I’ve just been installing lamp irons on the F6 I’m building and did wonder why it only had four in total! 

As an aside, the DW&WR and WL&WR had systems of loco carried discs with symbols for different types of train or perhaps destinations that fell out of use before the Deluge.

[Galteemore]

Intrigued by this, I looked up the 1936 SLNC rules, as photographic evidence was inconclusive. The guidance is sparse to say the least. But they went all out on whistle codes....

Edited April 22, 2020 by Galteemore

[minister_for_hardship]

The GSR had 13 pages on Whistle Codes alone. 

[Galteemore]

Makes sense, as one thinks about it, in the era before on board radios. 

[Wexford70]

What would these different types of lamps be used for?

 

[minister_for_hardship]

First pic, brake van lamp with removable red filter. Side mounted on van and you place the filter behind whichever lens you want to show red.

Second, red tail lamp for rear of train. 

Both of these are British, although CIE bought in some of the British style tail lamps latterly, they didn't use the brake van lamp. CIE brake vans had the lamp housings built into them, the oil burners and red filters were changed around within the van.

[minister_for_hardship]

A few pics. In order of appearance.

CIE Loco headlamp, CIE handlamp x 2, GSR gauge glass lamp (illuminating loco water gauge glasses), Duck lamp (inspection), Bardic (successor to oil handlamp), CIE brake van lamp reservoir and burner, oil tail lamp, pot lamp (pre elect and gas coach lighting), signal and LC gate lamp interior.

 

 

[WRENNEIRE]

A few from the loft

 

 

 

 

[Midland Man]

Here is my one. Made by NRS

 

 

 

[minister_for_hardship]

By coincidence, I found a Return of Plant form with all types of lamps listed. 

[Mike 84C]

The best loco lamps for modellers are from Lanarkshire Models . www.lanarkshiremodels.com  worth a look. I have used their lamps and buffers , very quick service and I do not think they are expensive.

 Just a happy customer.

[minister_for_hardship]

16 hours ago, Mike 84C said:

The best loco lamps for modellers are from Lanarkshire Models . www.lanarkshiremodels.com  worth a look. I have used their lamps and buffers , very quick service and I do not think they are expensive.

 Just a happy customer.

The LMS lamps look close enough for GNRI or NCC.

[Galteemore]

I’m tempted by these 7mm ones as CIE doppelgängers.....https://invertrain.com/product/caledonian-railway-loco-lamp/ 

[minister_for_hardship]

The other type of CIE headlamp with piecrust top, the design goes back to GS&WR days and the short dumpy tail lamp as used by CIE before the BR type.

Headlamps did have a red filter inside so that it could act as a tail lamp but most of those would end up broken with rough handling.

[DSERetc]

The other type of CIE headlamp with the piecrust top goes back to GS&WR days......

     The RPSI made two 'Genuine Antique' lamps similar to this for No.461 during a previous overhaul.  

                                                                      DSERetc    

[Phil3150]

On 22/4/2020 at 8:22 PM, minister_for_hardship said:

Please can you tell me the source of this as it's not in my copy of the 1933 GSR Rule Book

Thanks

Phil

 

[flange lubricator]

looks like its from the appendix to the working timetable 1935

[minister_for_hardship]

9 minutes ago, Phil3150 said:

 

It's not in the Rules, it's in the Appendix to the Working Timetable.

[Phil3150]

Thanks for that. I need to get my hands on one of them!!

[jhb171achill]

1 hour ago, Phil3150 said:

Thanks for that. I need to get my hands on one of them!!

I have one here from 1934. If there's anything you want me to copy out of it and ping to you, PM me.

[johnfromoz]

While we are talking lamps,  can someone advise when the rule or practice of using twin tail lamps came into being? 
 

John

[minister_for_hardship]

2 hours ago, johnfromoz said:

While we are talking lamps,  can someone advise when the rule or practice of using twin tail lamps came into being? 
 

John

I think it may have been in the aftermath of the 1983 Cherryville collision?

[ttc0169]

9 hours ago, johnfromoz said:

While we are talking lamps,  can someone advise when the rule or practice of using twin tail lamps came into being? 
 

John

1991/92

[bt_ie]

Hi, We moved into a new house and started insulating the attic and came across this beauty. Base on the newspaper it was wrapped in its been up there since 1976.

I was hoping you all could help with:

A) telling me what it is exactly and what it was used for (Irish?)

B) recommend where I can get it restored with a view to putting it back into use (electrical rather than gas!).

https://imgur.com/4LreLoG
https://imgur.com/TykDqkF
https://imgur.com/3oYIkcS
https://imgur.com/kspvuKp

 

[minister_for_hardship]

1 hour ago, bt_ie said:

Hi, We moved into a new house and started insulating the attic and came across this beauty. Base on the newspaper it was wrapped in its been up there since 1976.

I was hoping you all could help with:

A) telling me what it is exactly and what it was used for (Irish?)

B) recommend where I can get it restored with a view to putting it back into use (electrical rather than gas!).

https://imgur.com/4LreLoG
https://imgur.com/TykDqkF
https://imgur.com/3oYIkcS
https://imgur.com/kspvuKp

 

Not railway at all. It's for a horse drawn vehicle. Candles went into them.

Edited December 12, 2023 by minister_for_hardship